LONG RANGE SHOOTING QUESTIONS

[Arch_E]

This thread is perfectly timed as I very recently shot my FWB 124 break-barrel springer at the longest ranges that I ever tried and was pleasantly surprised! I was shooting off sandbags (with a woolen cap between the rifle forearm and the front sandbag). Slight wind and hold errors/differences really wreaked havoc on the groupings, but the rifle consistently shot under 4" ctc groups (see A-E in figure), with some closer to 2" ctc (B and E in figure). It was at my club's 100 yd range, but the distance was actually closer to 86 yards. Air Arms Diabolo Field 8.4 gr, 4.52 mm pellets were shot at around 780 fps.

I included some groups at 50 yards (actual range was closer to 51 yards, so these are honest 50 yard groups!) in F in figure. If you look at the left two groups in F, you might think that this rifle groups ~0.6" ctc at 50 yds, but the next two groups show that maybe 1" ctc at 50 yd is a more reasonable expectation. This is why I always shoot more than one group!


I'm curious learn more about how other springers do at longer ranges.

Best wishes,
John

Interesting and impressive. Thanks for showing us the pics. I realize that these are not 1/2 groups at 100 yards; but, it's good to see just how are the lowly break barrels can punch!!!

Archie

[Allen Rice]

This target was shot at 100 yards with my RWS-460, 22.  The rifle was actually zeroed at 45 yards and was shooting consistent 3/4" groups, so I decided to see what she would do at 100 Yards.  Aiming right at the bulls eye, my first five shots landed in a 2" group about 14" low.  I adjusted my aim point accordingly and shot the attached target.  I also shot a similar second confirmation target.  FYI, my rifle was shooting JSB 14.35's at 870 fps.  I was shootin off of a Coldwell bag. 

AR

[stevemag]

This target was shot at 100 yards with my RWS-460, 22.  The rifle was actually zeroed at 45 yards and was shooting consistent 3/4" groups, so I decided to see what she would do at 100 Yards.  Aiming right at the bulls eye, my first five shots landed in a 2" group about 14" low.  I adjusted my aim point accordingly and shot the attached target.  I also shot a similar second confirmation target.  FYI, my rifle was shooting JSB 14.35's at 870 fps.  I was shootin off of a Coldwell bag. 

AR

very nice. I think power is definitely a big factor at 100 yards. @700fps most of the battle is remembering where exactly your point of aim was in the trees above the target. I still think faster and flatter is what’s needed.

[Mark 611]

Speed is ur friend at longer distances! it allows for less effects from the elements ur fighting against! like humidity, wind, barometric pressure, spin drift, and so on! things u will learn about reading that book Steve IMO if u want to shoot these distances u need a .22cal pellet that is running in the 850fps or more with a pellet that has the best ballistic co efficient that is the most accurate from ur barrel! IMO the bigger power plant Diana's like the 460mag 48's 52's 54's ECT seem to preform well for this task! IMO the 54's have to many moving parts in the rail system that could cause accuracy deviation at longer distances! a ridged plat form like the 460 or 48's IMO is a better plat form, From my yrs of shooting long range with power burner's, the same basic principles apply to air guns, this why I have a 460mag in .22cal, I think for the money this is a very good long range shooter, and as u can see from other posts on here they are quite capable of the shooting u want to do! also a good fixed power scope like a SWFA 16x scope would make a good combo for that type of shooting! and lastly u need to have ur trigger tuned so it does not effect the rifle upon release, to heavy of a trigger will pull u off target, and the longer the shot the more effect this will have! just my 2ct

[Arch_E]

Speed is ur friend at longer distances! it allows for less effects from the elements ur fighting against! like humidity, wind, barometric pressure, spin drift, and so on! things u will learn about reading that book Steve IMO if u want to shoot these distances u need a .22cal pellet that is running in the 850fps or more with a pellet that has the best ballistic co efficient that is the most accurate from ur barrel! IMO the bigger power plant Diana's like the 460mag 48's 52's 54's ECT seem to preform well for this task! IMO the 54's have to many moving parts in the rail system that could cause accuracy deviation at longer distances! a ridged plat form like the 460 or 48's IMO is a better plat form, From my yrs of shooting long range with power burner's, the same basic principles apply to air guns, this why I have a 460mag in .22cal, I think for the money this is a very good long range shooter, and as u can see from other posts on here they are quite capable of the shooting u want to do! also a good fixed power scope like a SWFA 16x scope would make a good combo for that type of shooting! and lastly u need to have ur trigger tuned so it does not effect the rifle upon release, to heavy of a trigger will pull u off target, and the longer the shot the more effect this will have! just my 2ct

This is great information, confirming what I've read (but never experienced) about some springers' capability to shoot rather accurately over 75 yards to about 100 yards. Excellent!

However, isn't this only applicable for shooting paper? No disrespect intended by this question. I just wonder where in that shot distance would the fpe drop so low that it wouldn't kill an intended pest?

great thread--thanks,

Archie

[Mark 611]

Depends on the pest? Crow size birds rabbits things of that size, IMO would be easily dispatched with proper shot placement!  I have shot plenty of Ground Hogs with a 460mag .22cal @75yds and have had no problem dispatching them with a well placed head shot, some of them the pellet passed completely thru both sides of the scull!

[Arch_E]

Depends on the pest? Crow size birds rabbits things of that size, IMO would be easily dispatched with proper shot placement!  I have shot plenty of Ground Hogs with a 460mag .22cal @75yds and have had no problem dispatching them with a well placed head shot, some of them the pellet passed completely thru both sides of the scull!

Thanks! So, springers are capable of pesting at 75ish yards. Outstanding! Now, more practice--since I know my Weihrauchs are more capable than I.... 

Archie

[Mark 611]

People way underestimate the power of these rifles! these are not the BB guns of yesteryear when I was a kid back in the early 70's, even then the old Powerline 880 and the Crosman 760 back in the day when they were made good!!! were good for what they were! 30yds or so! todays air guns have come along way! This why quality air guns cost what they do! U think about what is being asked of an air rifle in this thread!!!! and a spring gun at that! a spring gun of such power was un heard of! let alone trying to shoot a group @100yds! 10ys ago or so when I would post about shooting small game @75yds and beyond people, especially over in England who were and are members of this forum said I was full of you know !!! but its pretty common today to shoot those distances, all it takes is good equipment and knowing how to use it!

[Airspace]

Mark, your right on  target when you say knowing the gun and what it can do. Just check out a few of the videos posted by Egyptian sniper. He shows you the distance of the kill shots with his Hatsan break barrel. It's how he helps to feed his family.

[triggerfest]

This thread is perfectly timed as I very recently shot my FWB 124 break-barrel springer at the longest ranges that I ever tried and was pleasantly surprised! I was shooting off sandbags (with a woolen cap between the rifle forearm and the front sandbag). Slight wind and hold errors/differences really wreaked havoc on the groupings, but the rifle consistently shot under 4" ctc groups (see A-E in figure), with some closer to 2" ctc (B and E in figure). It was at my club's 100 yd range, but the distance was actually closer to 86 yards. Air Arms Diabolo Field 8.4 gr, 4.52 mm pellets were shot at around 780 fps.

I included some groups at 50 yards (actual range was closer to 51 yards, so these are honest 50 yard groups!) in F in figure. If you look at the left two groups in F, you might think that this rifle groups ~0.6" ctc at 50 yds, but the next two groups show that maybe 1" ctc at 50 yd is a more reasonable expectation. This is why I always shoot more than one group!


I'm curious learn more about how other springers do at longer ranges.

Best wishes,
John

nice shooting! so its possible, i just need more practice.

Just more practise indeed + make sure you have found the right pellet for your airgun + some higher powered scopes. I would say 16+ power. Though this is very personal and depend on the quality of the glass as well.

[Mark 611]

Kind of my point, I personally use my AG's for recreational use and pest control,  the small game I go after like G-Hogs ur lucky to get with in 50yds of them before they run into their hole! So I already know I need a gun with enough power and accuracy for that distance and beyond! This is where the 460mag shines in .22cal! most every 1 I have owned shoots the Crosman HP's or pointed hunting pellets smaller then a dime @30yds, this it the type of accuracy that's needed with the power from these Diana's to make the shots @ 75yds and beyond, I'm not a big Diana fan unless its a bigger power plant gun like this, I prefer HW's but they do not produce the power to shoot G-Hogs @75yds for a 1 shot kill at least in a .20cal rifle, using softer pellets like H&N or JSB's, I have shot several with a .20cal HW80 @820fps with 11.42 H&N's at that distance and they ran back into their hole! the harder CPHP's from a 460mag at around 825 to 850fps plant them right there!  

[triggerfest]

12ft/lbs is more than enough on long distances.

Have a look at the groupings done during a springer airgun competition on 100m in my country. The winning springer was a 12ft/lbs tuned HW97k.
https://www.luchtbuks.net/index.php?/topic/120797-inschrijftopic-veerbukswedstrijden-25-en-100m/page__pid__985872__st__45&#entry985872

[Arch_E]

12ft/lbs is more than enough on long distances.

Have a look at the groupings done during a springer airgun competition on 100m in my country. The winning springer was a 12ft/lbs tuned HW97k.
https://www.luchtbuks.net/index.php?/topic/120797-inschrijftopic-veerbukswedstrijden-25-en-100m/page__pid__985872__st__45&#entry985872

Those are incredible groupings at 100m. My soul, why all love for PCPs when tame springers are so capable?

Archie

[rsterne]

Rudolph, are those indoors or outdoors at 100M ?

Bob

[triggerfest]

Rudolph, are those indoors or outdoors at 100M ?

Bob

Hey Bob, those are indoors.

It is exactly what Archie mentioned, it is all about tame springers. But I reckon that counts for every distance. And purpose onviously. I can imagine if you're hunting or do long distance plinking and targets are bigger, then a more powerful springer makes sense.

[kerplunk]

This target was shot at 100 yards with my RWS-460, 22.  The rifle was actually zeroed at 45 yards and was shooting consistent 3/4" groups, so I decided to see what she would do at 100 Yards.  Aiming right at the bulls eye, my first five shots landed in a 2" group about 14" low.  I adjusted my aim point accordingly and shot the attached target.  I also shot a similar second confirmation target.  FYI, my rifle was shooting JSB 14.35's at 870 fps.  I was shootin off of a Coldwell bag. 

AR

very nice. I think power is definitely a big factor at 100 yards. @700fps most of the battle is remembering where exactly your point of aim was in the trees above the target. I still think faster and flatter is what’s needed.

I was able to shoot the attached 100 yard targets with 0.22 JSB 18.13gr shooting ~750 FPS at the muzzle, with a springer (fully tuned Flying Dragon XS28M). The one on the left is the best group I've shot, but I've shot many <4" 100 yard groups with this setup. I don't think you need to be shooting 900+ FPS for good long range groups, especially with a PCP, I think consistency is more important.

You mentioned mildots too, I think this or some other kind of reticle holdover system is necessary for accurate shooting at this distance. ChairGun shows a drop of ~39" for my setup, it's hard to adjust that much consistently with Kentucky windage. And that's zeroed at 50 yards!

[kerplunk]

Depends on the pest? Crow size birds rabbits things of that size, IMO would be easily dispatched with proper shot placement!  I have shot plenty of Ground Hogs with a 460mag .22cal @75yds and have had no problem dispatching them with a well placed head shot, some of them the pellet passed completely thru both sides of the scull!

Thanks! So, springers are capable of pesting at 75ish yards. Outstanding! Now, more practice--since I know my Weihrauchs are more capable than I.... 

Archie

For reference, ChairGun shows my XS28M with 11.5 FPE of retained energy at 100 yards. That's 755 FPS muzzle velocity with a 18.13gr pellet for 22.9 FPE at the muzzle, with BC=0.035. Granted it is a "magnum," but not an "ultra-magnum."

[stevemag]

Depends on the pest? Crow size birds rabbits things of that size, IMO would be easily dispatched with proper shot placement!  I have shot plenty of Ground Hogs with a 460mag .22cal @75yds and have had no problem dispatching them with a well placed head shot, some of them the pellet passed completely thru both sides of the scull!

Thanks! So, springers are capable of pesting at 75ish yards. Outstanding! Now, more practice--since I know my Weihrauchs are more capable than I.... 

Archie

For reference, ChairGun shows my XS28M with 11.5 FPE of retained energy at 100 yards. That's 755 FPS muzzle velocity with a 18.13gr pellet for 22.9 FPE at the muzzle, with BC=0.035. Granted it is a "magnum," but not an "ultra-magnum."

Hey Adam, tried scoping my xs28 for this project but had a hard time even getting it on paper at 25 yards and gave up in frustration. and my eyes aren't good enough with out one anymore.

[Mark 611]

This why I suggested the SWFA 16x optic, it has 10mils of hold over inside the reticule plus half mil hash marks, Adam, what kind of groups are u getting @30yds with the 18gn JSB's?

[Dbez1]

I had an 850 in .22 cal and it was very accurate.... If you can pick a day with no wind, I think it might surprise you at 100 yards

Bob

I agree!  How was the wind?  Even a 2 or 3 mph wind will cause problems at 100 yards.