LONG RANGE SHOOTING QUESTIONS

[stevemag]

Got out to pennsylvania to shoot again today.
I shot both the Hammerli 850 and the HW95 with just ok results.
The 850 has a 12 power scope while the 95 has a 7x. I shot them about even. I was kind of surprised by this. The 850 does have the new HPA bottle @1100 psi output. I think it still needs some breaking in. So at 25-50 yards all goes great. if  i can see it i can hit it. . 1" or less groups down to  tiny 1 hole groups. Tried 5 pellets  that did well.

oh yeah, so the point of the story. any thing from either gun at 75 yards or more was just luck as far as hitting the target...
does one need a flatter shooting fast projectile to shoot good groups at 100 yards?  Like say will a 177 @900fps out perform a 22 @700fps ? I mean i was aiming 2 feet over the target at 100 yards (zeroed@25 yards)Do i need a .22 going 950fps?
What has been your long range experience?

[Arch_E]

Got out to pennsylvania to shoot again today.
I shot both the Hammerli 850 and the HW95 with just ok results.
The 850 has a 12 power scope while the 95 has a 7x. I shot them about even. I was kind of surprised by this. The 850 does have the new HPA bottle @1100 psi output. I think it still needs some breaking in. So at 25-50 yards all goes great. if  i can see it i can hit it. . 1" or less groups down to  tiny 1 hole groups. Tried 5 pellets  that did well.

oh yeah, so the point of the story. any thing from either gun at 75 yards or more was just luck as far as hitting the target...
does one need a flatter shooting fast projectile to shoot good groups at 100 yards?  Like say will a 177 @900fps out perform a 22 @700fps ? I mean i was aiming 2 feet over the target at 100 yards (zeroed@25 yards)Do i need a .22 going 950fps?
What has been your long range experience?

Some posts on the forum show about 100 yard hits with the HW95 or 97 (and perhaps others); but, it's my opinion that beyond 75 is where the PCPs really begin to shine while our springers/rams dull out quickly. I'm astounded to hear that a Hammerli, even on a HPA bottle was shooting similar to the HW95.

I have the HW95 and 97 in .177 but would never shoot it for results over 50 yards (or so). The guns might be accurate for another several yards, but I'm definitely not.  Likewise, the heavier pellets (.22, .25) actually perform better (read that here on the forum) at distance than lighter pellets. Trajectory might be getting loopier but arrival and impact are supposedly better.

Best wishes in getting this sorted out.

Let the experts in guns and weighted grains help you out from here.

Archie

[stevemag]

im not as sure that the hammerli is bad or i was having a bad day, I think i am just  learning to shoot the 95 much better  from a rest. i usually only shoot the 95 off hand or elbows rested. so now that i figured out the bench it really shines.

[stevemag]

Anyone near Easton PA BTW, Easton fish and game has a nice range.

[Mark 611]

I would agree that 75 to 80yds IMO is about max for best groups with a spring gun! I have shot some really good groups @75yds with a Diana 460mag .22cal, IMO other then the .20cal, a higher powered springer if you can shoot 1??? is probably a better choice for long range target shooting! I think 100yds is asking a lot for tight groups at that distance with a springer JMO, I have made plenty of kill shots on birds @100yds with a springer, but target shooting for precise groups is another story not saying it can't be done but IMO everything about the gun and shooter better 100% to shoot those distances JMO

[larspawn]

Steve, is your 850 regged at 1100 psi?  And is it shooting 900 fps with 7.9gr pellets? 

Reason is I don't know what my reg is at but it is shooting 7.9 at like 780 fps.  I think the reg on it is 800-900 psi.  I have two other regs set at 1200 and 1800 psi.  Curious what kind of performance I might expect.  I did free flow the valve and used a Dominator spring. 

[stevemag]

the 850 is in .22 shooting around 740 with 14.5 pellets@ 1100 psi . i guess my op was poorly worded

[stevemag]

I would agree that 75 to 80yds IMO is about max for best groups with a spring gun! I have shot some really good groups @75yds with a Diana 460mag .22cal, IMO other then the .20cal, a higher powered springer if you can shoot 1??? is probably a better choice for long range target shooting! I think 100yds is asking a lot for tight groups at that distance with a springer JMO, I have made plenty of kill shots on birds @100yds with a springer, but target shooting for precise groups is another story not saying it can't be done but IMO everything about the gun and shooter better 100% to shoot those distances JMO

i'll have to set a target out at 75 yards next time i go.

[larspawn]

the 850 is in .22 shooting around 740 with 14.5 pellets@ 1100 psi . i guess my op was poorly worded

Ah.  Ok so I'll try first with the 1200 PSI and that should get me mid to high 900 fps which is right where I'd want it.  Thanks.

[larspawn]

Got out to pennsylvania to shoot again today.
I shot both the Hammerli 850 and the HW95 with just ok results.
The 850 has a 12 power scope while the 95 has a 7x. I shot them about even. I was kind of surprised by this. The 850 does have the new HPA bottle @1100 psi output. I think it still needs some breaking in. So at 25-50 yards all goes great. if  i can see it i can hit it. . 1" or less groups down to  tiny 1 hole groups. Tried 5 pellets  that did well.

oh yeah, so the point of the story. any thing from either gun at 75 yards or more was just luck as far as hitting the target...
does one need a flatter shooting fast projectile to shoot good groups at 100 yards?  Like say will a 177 @900fps out perform a 22 @700fps ? I mean i was aiming 2 feet over the target at 100 yards (zeroed@25 yards)Do i need a .22 going 950fps?
What has been your long range experience?

Some posts on the forum show about 100 yard hits with the HW95 or 97 (and perhaps others); but, it's my opinion that beyond 75 is where the PCPs really begin to shine while our springers/rams dull out quickly. I'm astounded to hear that a Hammerli, even on a HPA bottle was shooting similar to the HW95.

I have the HW95 and 97 in .177 but would never shoot it for results over 50 yards (or so). The guns might be accurate for another several yards, but I'm definitely not.  Likewise, the heavier pellets (.22, .25) actually perform better (read that here on the forum) at distance than lighter pellets. Trajectory might be getting loopier but arrival and impact are supposedly better.

Best wishes in getting this sorted out.

Let the experts in guns and weighted grains help you out from here.

Archie

Archie,

The Hammerli 850s have excellent hammer forged barrels IIRC.  I know my HPA setup even at sub 12 FPE is amazingly accurate and consistent.  I don't know about the .22 barrels though.

[rsterne]

I had an 850 in .22 cal and it was very accurate.... If you can pick a day with no wind, I think it might surprise you at 100 yards.... Yes, there will be a lot of holdover, but with the right pellets (try JSB Exacts) the gun should be capable.... Check out the NUAH club in the Target shooting section.... "Nuttin' Under a Hundred".... Some guys that are members have done it with Springers, too, even in .177....

https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?board=205.0

We have one member who qualified for Membership with a .22 cal Springer at 150M (164 yd)….

Bob

[stevemag]

I had an 850 in .22 cal and it was very accurate.... If you can pick a day with no wind, I think it might surprise you at 100 yards.... Yes, there will be a lot of holdover, but with the right pellets (try JSB Exacts) the gun should be capable.... Check out the NUAH club in the Target shooting section.... "Nuttin' Under a Hundred".... Some guys that are members have done it with Springers, too, even in .177....

https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?board=205.0

We have one member who qualified for Membership with a .22 cal Springer at 150M (164 yd)….

Bob

Last week I managed a 3” group at 100 yards with the 95.  I was lucky I think. Couldn’t come close yesterday.

[rsterne]

Join in the fun, there is always a 100 yd. match running.... You don't have to be able to score well to have a LOT of fun.... and you can use the same target to apply for Membership if you qualify.... The official printable targets are in the Rules Thread....

Bob

[fwbsport]

I've experimented long range shooting with Theoben Eliminators in .20, .22, and .25.  These are all gas piston.
Results with long range consistency proved using them beyond 45 yards was highly critical to do.  Problem is the trigger.  I kept the .25 and used it frequently to shoot squirrels on our long driveway (then) @ 50 or so yards but the pellets dropped way too fast to be good beyond 60 yards.

I've used PCPs and springers in .177, .20, .22, and .25.  Add the .30 FX BOSS.

The PCPs are the only way to ensure accuracy out beyond 50 yards, no springer is good enough beyond 60 yards.

The springers are all finicky in individual ways even if they are the same model like the HW50S in .177 and .22.

Save the PCP for the long shot and if you use a springer for a hunting gun or go to gun or "bug out" gun I have some things to say about the HW35E being the pick for me.

I have powerful springers (HW80, HW97K, HW57, FWB Sport, and R9) and "medium" springers"

HW50S
HW35E

These two models have better accuracy at 30 yards than all the above, and the reason is consistency compared to power.  Of the HW50 and HW35E the latter is the better choice of the two for me because it has more consistency in velocity spread as well as barrel locking latch returning the barrel back to the same exact lock up.

The cocking of the 35 is much easier and does not stack--the 50s stack at the end of the cocking stroke. 

I believe the 35E represents the perfect self-powered air rifle for THE AIR PELLET to accurately hit out to 60 yards with enough KE for anything less than a coyote.

My answer to the question whether the pellet (propelled by any air rifle) can be depended upon to do anything right beyond 60 yards consistently again and again with any rifle Lothar Rifled or Anschutz doesn't matter.  You will see the pellet from any air rifle FAIL in flight (actual atmospheric flight) beyond 60 yards.

My answer for trying the 100 yard shot is use the FX BOSS in .30 and I'll believe you, but I don't want my old FX BOSS anymore and so I sold it.  Because what the .30 could do at 90 and 110 yards in the BOSS was exactly what a .22 Long Rifle does--so what's the point?

[Lefusil]

This is a good book on long range shooting :


It's written for PB's, but the principles are transferable to AGs.
+1 on Bob's suggestion to check out the 100 yard match, super fun.  There's something very rewarding about hitting that 10 ring at long range.

[stevemag]

I guess I should learn to walk before I run. Next trip I will set up at 75 yards and see what happens. I’m also learning about scopes , I need less cross hair and more mil-dot.

[JohnC]

This thread is perfectly timed as I very recently shot my FWB 124 break-barrel springer at the longest ranges that I ever tried and was pleasantly surprised! I was shooting off sandbags (with a woolen cap between the rifle forearm and the front sandbag). Slight wind and hold errors/differences really wreaked havoc on the groupings, but the rifle consistently shot under 4" ctc groups (see A-E in figure), with some closer to 2" ctc (B and E in figure). It was at my club's 100 yd range, but the distance was actually closer to 86 yards. Air Arms Diabolo Field 8.4 gr, 4.52 mm pellets were shot at around 780 fps.

I included some groups at 50 yards (actual range was closer to 51 yards, so these are honest 50 yard groups!) in F in figure. If you look at the left two groups in F, you might think that this rifle groups ~0.6" ctc at 50 yds, but the next two groups show that maybe 1" ctc at 50 yd is a more reasonable expectation. This is why I always shoot more than one group!


I'm curious learn more about how other springers do at longer ranges.

Best wishes,
John

[cosmic]

Make a paint roller rest and hold the rifle loosely..

[stevemag]

This is a good book on long range shooting :


It's written for PB's, but the principles are transferable to AGs.
+1 on Bob's suggestion to check out the 100 yard match, super fun.  There's something very rewarding about hitting that 10 ring at long range.

I just ordered the book!! thanks!!

[stevemag]

This thread is perfectly timed as I very recently shot my FWB 124 break-barrel springer at the longest ranges that I ever tried and was pleasantly surprised! I was shooting off sandbags (with a woolen cap between the rifle forearm and the front sandbag). Slight wind and hold errors/differences really wreaked havoc on the groupings, but the rifle consistently shot under 4" ctc groups (see A-E in figure), with some closer to 2" ctc (B and E in figure). It was at my club's 100 yd range, but the distance was actually closer to 86 yards. Air Arms Diabolo Field 8.4 gr, 4.52 mm pellets were shot at around 780 fps.

I included some groups at 50 yards (actual range was closer to 51 yards, so these are honest 50 yard groups!) in F in figure. If you look at the left two groups in F, you might think that this rifle groups ~0.6" ctc at 50 yds, but the next two groups show that maybe 1" ctc at 50 yd is a more reasonable expectation. This is why I always shoot more than one group!


I'm curious learn more about how other springers do at longer ranges.

Best wishes,
John

nice shooting! so its possible, i just need more practice.