Pest control, PCP recommendations (no FX please)

[Bryan Heimann]

Between a stainless steel CZ455 and an Umarex Gauntlet, or any .22 airgun for that matter, the CZ455 wins in every category by a wide margin except sound and price of ammo.  Might ruffle some feathers but it is what it is.  If you are using it to hunt or kill pest moreso than target practice the cost of .22 lr is pretty negligible to me.

What you are getting with the air rifle is that it is quiet and can be shot in the neighborhood, has limited range so more safe around pens and around a lot of animals etc.  And if you shoot targets every day... I have burned through more than one 500 ct tin of pellets in a day with just a breakbarrel springer.

If you can't have both, and you don't own a rimfire, then go with the CZ .22 LR.

Got a rimfire and other firearms already?  A nice PCP airgun would complement them nicely.

If it is all about price and value for money, I think you could argue that you get more gun than the CZ in a nice European springer for about the same price.  Less power and etc.  but build quality is there, real nice trigger, nice wood, etc.

Good luck with it.

[T3PRanch]

In Texas, they require you have a minimum of 10 acres to be able to discharge firearms on your property.

In Texas This is ONLY true in some subdivisions / locations and not on most unincorporated land where the only rule is a projectile must not cross a property line!

[Vee3]

It's not so much a safety issue as a noise issue. Australians are big complainers when they hear rifle shots. I'm frankly very worried about causing a complaint and the ramifications that would cause. This is the one big thing pushing me towards a PCP and not a 22LR.

Turns out if I want a really quiet 22LR, I will have to buy a CZ 455 Lux II (25" barrel), which is more expensive than the stainless CZ I referenced above. It's also not stainless. It's also not equipped with interchangeable barrels. So many of the attractions of the rimfire option disappear. And then I also have to use "quiet" (slow) ammunition, which is useless much beyond 50 yards. And yet it's dangerous for much further than pellets. So I'm not so keen anymore.   

I bought my CZ 452 Ultra Lux specifically to shoot/hunt where although legal, people in the area will sometimes call the Sheriff if they hear gunfire close by.

CCI "Quiet-22" is not known for its accuracy. Had horrible vertical stringing out of the few long-barreled rifles I tried it in. However, CCI "Standard Velocity" (~950 fps at the muzzle out of my 28" barrel) is very accurate out to 100 yds yet still very quiet. Subsonic, so there is no sonic crack that you get with HV .22 lr. The report (outdoors) sounds about like a solid hand clap. I had a buddy shoot some while I was standing ~100 yds away and I think most would assume it's an airgun at that distance.

Also, if you want (maybe you don't?) a .22 air rifle that will deliver close to .22 lr energy + accuracy out to 100 yds, you're going to have to spend significant money on one that will shoot slugs at similar velocity. And in many cases it's still going to make some noise. You may have to invest in something to quiet it down if you require significantly less noise than the rimfire rifle/ammo combination described above.

Regardless, everyone should have a .22 lr rifle. And a .22 PCP rifle. 

[Ozman]

CCI "Quiet-22" is not known for its accuracy. Had horrible vertical stringing out of the few long-barreled rifles I tried it in. However, CCI "Standard Velocity" (~950 fps at the muzzle out of my 28" barrel) is very accurate out to 100 yds yet still very quiet. Subsonic, so there is no sonic crack that you get with HV .22 lr. The report (outdoors) sounds about like a solid hand clap. I had a buddy shoot some while I was standing ~100 yds away and I think most would assume it's an airgun at that distance.

That's a very interesting comment, Vee3! It contrasts with something someone else told me, who also has the gun you mention and uses that same ammo. I quote:

The super quiet "CCI Quiet 40gr lrn" ammo that I use in it makes the CZ extremely quiet to use. Great for hunting/plinking on small acreage when you don't wanna bother the neighbors. The cci quiet only runs about 670fps and is too under powered and inconsistent for anything past about 30 to 40m, it's much much slower, quieter and less consistent then normal subsonic 22lr.

So I asked:

Have you tried the normal subsonic stuff through the CZ? I'm wondering how much noisier it would be ....

He replied:

Yeah it's noticeably louder. More accurate,consistent and handles the wind pretty well but also much much louder

BTW, more problems with the one truly quiet round for the 22LR, the CCI "quiet" round:

• It has a 5"-6.5" drop at 50 yards and a 2-3.5" group with that drop. So not a long range option. Meant for 10-30 yards max.
• Many sources report that the first shot of the day with the CCI Quiet would be 30fps slower and 2" lower at 25 yards than the next rounds. This makes the ammo pretty useless for pest control where your first shot might well be your only shot

[mpbby]

If you like hunting, you may enjoy the challenge to get closer to the rabbits; including the option to find a good spot to leave a blind 'ready to go'.  In both cases, you would have a lot of cheaper options for an air rifle.

[Bryan Heimann]

I shoot almost nothing but CCI Quiet because my daughter is sensitive to noise.  Never saw any of those problems.

Traiectory at 50 yards... come on my man.

2" cold bore outliers?  If you are comparing it to pellets, a light gust of wind will blow most .22 pellets a couple inches at 50 yards.

It's a 25 -30 yard load (CCI Quiet) and same for .22 pellets unless it's a calm day or you are a pro at judging and conpensating for wind.

[Bryan Heimann]

Almost forgot, my RWS 34 is louder than CCI Quiet in my daughter's 16" barrel on her cricket. 

Also 20 yards CCI Quiet and CCI Stingers are interchangeable in that rifle.  Talk about versatility.

Not quite as accurate as a good air rifle though.

[Bryan Heimann]

In Texas, they require you have a minimum of 10 acres to be able to discharge firearms on your property.

In Texas This is ONLY true in some subdivisions / locations and not on most unincorporated land where the only rule is a projectile must not cross a property line!

I was about to say, somebody better tell my neighbors.  We're all going to jail.

[Bryan Heimann]

In Texas, they require you have a minimum of 10 acres to be able to discharge firearms on your property.

In Texas This is ONLY true in some subdivisions / locations and not on most unincorporated land where the only rule is a projectile must not cross a property line!

I was about to say, somebody better tell my neighbors.  We're all going to jail.  "10 acre rule" hahaha

[Ozman]

I shoot almost nothing but CCI Quiet because my daughter is sensitive to noise.  Never saw any of those problems. Trajectory at 50 yards... come on my man.

My apologies, I have no experience with the CCI Quiet, I am merely reporting the evidence shown by others using the ammunition on YouTube. So whom do I believe, you or my lying eyes?   

2" cold bore outliers?  If you are comparing it to pellets, a light gust of wind will blow most .22 pellets a couple inches at 50 yards.

The cold bore outliers make pesting impossible. I've seen them happen on at least 2 videos, different channels, both times commented upon by the channel author. It does happen. With pellets, you can avoid wind drift most of the time (allow windage, or wait for calm).

It's a 25 -30 yard load (CCI Quiet) and same for .22 pellets unless it's a calm day or you are a pro at judging and compensating for wind.

I've seen pellets make tight groups out to 100 yards, unlike CCI Quiet.

[Ozman]

Just for my own reference, "first shot flyers" are usually called CBFs or "cold barrel flyers", and the best explanation is that a cold bore has no moisture in it. After a shot, the bore will always have condensation in it (a by-product from the combustion process). The way in which that water changes the friction on the bullet (with or without a layer of lube) with successive shots can account for high and low outliers.

One guy cured CBFs with PAM spray!
rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=414352

Another note about the so-called CCI Quiet rounds: I have now seen 2 reports of people who had them "stick" in the barrel after firing. This could be very bad news of you don't check the barrel. Yet another reason to stay with pellets?

[Back_Roads]

 Always spit on your first pellet, we used to keep a few spares in our mouth for fast follow ups on multiple targets. 

[Ozman]

Always spit on your first pellet, we used to keep a few spares in our mouth for fast follow ups on multiple targets. 

I wasn't talking about pellets, I was talking about .22LR Quiet bullets.

Please don't tell me you are putting lead pellets in your mouth! 

[Bryan Heimann]

I shoot almost nothing but CCI Quiet because my daughter is sensitive to noise.  Never saw any of those problems. Trajectory at 50 yards... come on my man.

My apologies, I have no experience with the CCI Quiet, I am merely reporting the evidence shown by others using the ammunition on YouTube. So whom do I believe, you or my lying eyes?   

2" cold bore outliers?  If you are comparing it to pellets, a light gust of wind will blow most .22 pellets a couple inches at 50 yards.

The cold bore outliers make pesting impossible. I've seen them happen on at least 2 videos, different channels, both times commented upon by the channel author. It does happen. With pellets, you can avoid wind drift most of the time (allow windage, or wait for calm).

It's a 25 -30 yard load (CCI Quiet) and same for .22 pellets unless it's a calm day or you are a pro at judging and compensating for wind.

I've seen pellets make tight groups out to 100 yards, unlike CCI Quiet.

Well then why don't you try it out for yourself.  Try some CCI Quiet. 

Also try shooting at 100 with an air rifle.  Get ready to be disappointed.

2" outliers on a clean cold bore i promise you is not the norm with CCI Quiet.

But I digress.

Don't feed the troll guys.

[Vee3]

So I asked:

Have you tried the normal subsonic stuff through the CZ? I'm wondering how much noisier it would be ....

He replied:

Yeah it's noticeably louder. More accurate,consistent and handles the wind pretty well but also much much louder

Yup, a hand clap is much much louder than a fart.

As noted, maybe it's time for you to go out and get some real-world, 1st hand experience.

[only1harry]

OK a couple of things guys...  This thread has been reported by other members. 

#1 There is too much talk about rimfire which is against the rules.  Discussions should be about airguns, period.
#2 Do not create conflict and call someone names, like a "troll".  This also violates the rules and you will get a 14-day vacation if you do it twice.  If you think someone is trolling or violating any of the Forum's rules you can click on the "Report to Moderator" button on a specific post, and explain what you think the issue is.  Do not characterize others on the open forum or insult them.  It only creates conflict and the thread will go south fast.  Let the staff handle it and take action if thhey feel it's justified. 

You need to get back on topic with this thread and quit talking about powder burners or the thread will be locked.  Also you are all adults here.  Play nice, make recommendations, and treat others with respect.   

Harry

[Ozman]

Thanks for the comment, moderator. Much appreciated. I'm done with powder burners, but it was an interesting exercise for me to have considered them. I'm glad I did, and some of the feedback was very informative. I suspect that many newbies go through the same thinking. (I'm not a newbie to airguns, having owned a Daisy when a boy 50 years ago, and also owned over 20 handguns, shotguns and centerfire weapons in my life).

I'm pretty much back on track and focused on getting my PCP shortly. Probably a Gauntlet, but maybe a Kral Puncher.

[KDX]

I think you can get better repeatable accuracy with an air rifle. One of my 10 shot chronographed groups with the above mentioned rimfire ammo had spread of 123fps.

[Ozman]

I think you can get better repeatable accuracy with an air rifle. One of my 10 shot chronographed groups with the above mentioned rimfire ammo had spread of 123fps.

Yup, air rifles it is! I just needed to clarify that in my own mind, although I seem to have upset some of the locals in so doing.

[Hobbyman2007]

I’m not sure if it was mentioned or not but a regulated Marauder might just fit the bill. I should warn you , if you look at just about everyone’s signature , no one owns just one PCP . It’s a rabbit hole .