Best way to sight in a springer?

[fderry]

What is the best way to sight in a springer from a bench rest?  I have PCPs, powder burners and am getting back into springers with a HW30s.  PCPs and powder burners work well from a lead sled but I am curious if this is the best way to sight in a springer.  I also have sandbag rests.

[Roadworthy]

It kind of depends on the specific gun - not just the model but THAT individual gun.  Some may work well off a rest.  Others demand a more personal touch - your hand between the bag and the forearm.  Some like a loose artillery hold while others do better with a firm grip.  Choice of pellets can make a huge difference as well.  There is no magic one size fits all formula.

[c_m_shooter]

Your HW30 shouldn't be hold sensitive.  Just support the forend on a sandbag.

[wolverine]

I start by shooting with qualty pellets and "iron" sights.  Start at 10yds with a large target.  After a full 500 count tin, i will mount the optics and again start with a large target at 10 yrds.  Once zeroed in at 10 yrds, I'll move the target another 10 yrds and re-sight.  Do this until you are at the desired distance.


As already stated, the hold depends on that particular rifle.  Try a bag, but lay the forearm stock on your palm like stated.


If the rifle is hold sensitive, I've found wearing a brown cotton  jersey glove on the week hand allows the gun to easily move.  Especially in hot humid conditions where hands tend to perspire.


I did not shoot my HW30 out of the box but had it shippied straight to motorhead for a full tune so all i know is a 30 that is very smooth and accurate with no special hold needed.


No matter what route you take, make it fun by shooting at different targets so it doesn't get old while "breaking it in".

[Lt. Dan]

It kind of depends on the specific gun - not just the model but THAT individual gun.  Some may work well off a rest.  Others demand a more personal touch - your hand between the bag and the forearm.  Some like a loose artillery hold while others do better with a firm grip.  Choice of pellets can make a huge difference as well.  There is no magic one size fits all formula.

Well put! I think I have at least one Springer for each description you made.

[Duckfish]

Become one with the gun.  It will show you the way. 

[Lt. Dan]

Become one with the gun.  It will show you the way.

Don't underestimate the power of the dark side,  it will draw you in if you are not strong.
And may the force be with you.

[Earl]

I cannot shoot break barrels accurately.
I am an old shooter with lots of experience with both powder burners and airguns.
I like the way break barrels work and I own 8.
I have followed instructions, watched videos and tried many different holds.
I can shoot many airguns accurately but NOT break barrels.

[fderry]

It seems the consensus is “it depends”.  My HW30s has a very mild kick but does move around on the front rest of the lead sled when only supported by the front rest and rear saddle.  On one shot the sight picture will move up and right and the next it will move up and left when the target is viewed through the scope.  In these cases it doesn’t come back to point of aim.  When I steady the fore arm with my hand (fore arm on front rest) it seems to settle down and move vertically (not right or left) then comes back close to point of aim.  After a shot is taken, I remove the rifle to cock it then I put it back into the lead sled to set up for the next shot therefore I don’t strap down the fore end to the lead sled.  Based on the feed back it seems that sand bag rests with a hand supporting the fore end and butt of rifle lightly into shoulder would be the best way to sight in the scope and shoot groups from rest.  Thanks for the feed back.

[fwbsport]

When sighting in my three Eliminators in 1999 I used my car at a friend's acreage to steady the rifles.  I wedged myself standing behind the open driver door with a thick winter coat to lay my arms securely on the hood there above that wedge (you have to park the car facing the target around 10 or 11 o'clock) is.  It acts as a solid rest for the rifle on its own weight, yet takes away all standing wobble.  I sighted the Theobens at 45 yards getting 1 inch groups of 3 shots per rifle.  I had a witness (Chief Warrant Zuppan) and his wife (also a Chief Warrant for the Chinook).  I gave him the .20, sold the .22, and kept the .25 to this day.

Now these Eliminators are about 70 pounds of cocking force, but they can shoot!

If you are wanting to learn along the way start shooting OFF HAND at close targets and then move them back as you adjust to the sights in iron. 

Seriously,  I cannot shoot a scoped rifle as steadily as an open sighted one.  I have been mulling over taking off the scope on my FWB because it is like the 35 E in accuracy with a bit more power.

Scopes present huge problems beginning with mounting them exactly over the bore to eliminate the side shows canting does.

Scopes show an image that is two dimensional and can't compensate for depth without parallax adjustment.

Scopes of higher power are less strong and bulkier--most likely to break.

Scopes of low power are way more useful than the high powered scopes seen by the dozens today--wider field of view.

Field of view is a safety issue.  Everyone knows that.  You can be so occupied trying to focus or get the wires right when a dog (yours) is standing a foot away from the line of fire out of the tiny field of view.

[jentry]

"It depends" is unfortunately accurate.

If the gun (trigger & barrel) isn't broken in, I wouldn't bother trying to sight-in just yet. There is no sense in wasting time on something that is changing. Get a tin of pellets and shoot them point blank into a box or some other trap. After that, set an approximate zero on a 4" target between 15-20yds.

At this point you can begin testing different holds and find a pellet that groups well (precision). Once you have those two things, you can set a zero at a distance that works for you (accuracy).

[Seanh]

One thing that should be noted that many people miss. Syttende how you're going to be shooting the rifle 90% of the time. If an overwhelming majority of the time you're shooting off a bucket and sticks then you site in off bucket and sticks if you're going to be hunting and using a tree for support site in the same way.

It doesn't do you much good to sight in off of bench when a majority of the time you're going to be Ste shooting off your knee. Recoil velocity of the rifle will change based on your shooting position. Get recoil velocity identical from sighting in to how you want to actually use the rifle and you will most likely group the same from siding in to actual usage

[Yogi]

Practice, practice, repeat.

Being consistent is the most important thing.  If the scope is optically centered, after you have mounted the scope.  Make sure you get your eye relief perfect.
Your sitting eye relief is probably different than your prone/standing eye relief.
Make sure the scope reticle is truly plumb with some vertical surface.
If you have a chrony, now is the time to use it.  find a program that shows the pellets arc.  Then decide where on that arc you want to be sighted in.
Set up target at 10 yards and shoot-this is just to make sure that you are on paper.  Then move target to the desired distance and fiddle with elevation and windage till your are bullseye!

-Y

[nced]

What is the best way to sight in a springer from a bench rest?  I have PCPs, powder burners and am getting back into springers with a HW30s.  PCPs and powder burners work well from a lead sled but I am curious if this is the best way to sight in a springer.  I also have sandbag rests.

I have never had good results "bench resting: either my .177 R9s or .177 HW95, however my brother had great results "benching" his .177 R9 as these two 50 yard groups show.........


I'm thinking that my "shooting form" might be the cause of mediocre bench rest groups but I occasionally shoot some pretty good groups sitting on a bucket resting the gun on cross sticks similar to this......

Whatever works for you. be sure to use the exact same hold and shooting form for every shot!

As a side note:
Since I couldn't lug a shooting bench into the West Virginia "squirrel woods", however a bucket and cross sticks could be used, it didn't concern me too much that I couldn't group well from a bench. I simply keep practicing "bucket and sticks" shooting because it did/does take a lot of concentration for me to minimize swaying on the bucket and keeping a good consistent trigger squeeze.

[fderry]

I mounted my MTC Mamba Lite scope from my FX Wildcat (over kill on HW30s) just for this test.  The 4x fixed scope that will be mounted was not powerful enough to resolve the hits for my old eyes without using a spotting scope.  This exercise was to determine best way to to sight in my HW30s and determine its accuracy.  I will most likely use shooting sticks and similar rests for normal shooting and will use a spotting scope when I sight in the 4X scope.  Thanks for all the insight and recommendations.

Shot from Caldwell sand bag at 25 yards after reading advice above.  The right target is the scope sight in and the left target is 25 pellets.  Still breaking in the rifle (about 250 pellets so far) but am happy with performance.  I shot Air Arms Diabolo Field, 8.4 gr  today.  They chron'ed at an average of 520 fps from the HW30s.  The x ring is 1" in diameter, second ring is 2" in diameter and total target is 3" in diameter.

[fderry]

nced - Wish I could shoot my R9 that well!  I bought a R9 about 18 years ago but always had problems setting up the R9 and shooting it accurately.  That is why I asked for advice in setting up the HW30s.

[jentry]

I mounted my MTC Mamba Lite scope from my FX Wildcat (over kill on HW30s) just for this test.  The 4x fixed scope that will be mounted was not powerful enough to resolve the hits for my old eyes without using a spotting scope.  This exercise was to determine best way to to sight in my HW30s and determine its accuracy.  I will most likely use shooting sticks and similar rests for normal shooting and will use a spotting scope when I sight in the 4X scope.  Thanks for all the insight and recommendations.

Shot from Caldwell sand bag at 25 yards after reading advice above.  The right target is the scope sight in and the left target is 25 pellets.  Still breaking in the rifle (about 250 pellets so far) but am happy with performance.  I shot Air Arms Diabolo Field, 8.4 gr  today.  They chron'ed at an average of 520 fps from the HW30s.  The x ring is 1" in diameter, second ring is 2" in diameter and total target is 3" in diameter.

Looks like you're off to a good start!

[HectorMedina]

Frank;

DON'T ever trust what an airgun says before you have shot at least 300 rounds through it.
IDEALLY, the break-in peeriod should have plenty of intermediate cleanings (1 shot, 1 clean for 10 shots, then 5 shots 1 clean for another 10 cycles, then 10 shots, 1 clean for another 10 cycles, and last 50 shots, clean, and another 50 shots.
You would be astonished at how important to the LONG TERM accuracy of the rifle this is. The more powerful the rifle, the more important this is.
AFTER the "break-in" period consistency is more important than the specifics, it is then that you find out which pellet shoots best in THAT barrel, which is unique to YOUR gun.
AFTER deciding on the two or three pellets that you are REALLY going to test thoroughly, then my SUGGESTION is to use a rolled up old feather pillow between sandbags and rifle.
And be as consistent as possible in your trigger hand grip as well as the "just touching" cheek weld that is easier to keep consistent.
USUALLY, the thumb over the comb is the best position for springers, but as I said above, your gun is unique and may like a different hand position.

The large vertical dispersion of your 25 shot target tells me that the rifle is "bouncing" off the sandbags. And not always consistently. Pay attention to the place where the rifle is resting and experiment with a little bit forwards, or a little bit backwards, then mark the spot with painter's tape so that you can repeat that.
ANYTHING blocking the recoil of the gun (like a lead sled) will give you false readings of POI just be aware of this.

You also need to find out how your rifle likes to be "closed into battery". Some rifles like a gentle close, some rifles like a solid close, some even like a gentle close to the first contact and then an authoritative and decided closing.

You're starting at the right power level to learn the intricacies of spring gun shooting and you clearly have a good gun. MOST good guns will be able to put 10 shots cleanly into a 1/2" hole at 25 yards from a rested and stable position. That tells you more or less where you can get if you are diligent, and patient, and perseverant.

Most of all, you are in good company! This forum is one of the most helpful places in the WWW.

Welcome to springers, and remember that there IS a reason why so many of us give girl's names to our spring guns.

;-)

Keep well and shoot straight!






HM

[fwbsport]

HM,

I like what you said.

It seems like a few hundred pellets always go downrange before I start to feel the rifle settle.  And along the way it seems I learn something else like the touch of the cheek on the stock and where it is with what pressure!  I've seen on my HW35E why I'm not as consistent as I'd like to be, but the striving for excellence continues pellet after pellet.

[fderry]

Thank all of you for your inputs!  I started with a R9 about 18 years ago and couldn’t master it so moved to a R7 and had more success with it but still I didn’t shoot as well as I wanted to.  Really liked the fit and comfort of the R7 though.  Moved to Crosman CO2 airguns and got hooked to the point of customizing one of them to bulk fill CO2 with LW barrel and custom stock.  After that I moved to powder burners and reloading (primarily shotguns for trap and 5 stand shooting).  About 4 years ago (after I retired) I got back into airguns with PCPs.  Started with a Marauder Pistol with carbine stock.  Moved to an Air Force Talon SS (a lot of customizing potential).  Then a FX Wildcat.  They were all good and accurate but lacked something.  I then fell in love with the AA/CZ T200.  After shooting the T200 I found that shooting 1 pellet at a time from a good fitting, accurate rifle and concentrating on my actual shooting form was more rewarding than throwing lead down range.  A few months ago I started reading the springer forum and remembered how much I liked the R7.  Ordered a HW30s Urban Pro from AoA and am in love with it.  There is something about shooting a springer that is rewarding.  I think it is having to put the time and effort into developing the skill to be good (and break habits developed with PCPs and powder burners).  If I get reasonably good with the HW30s I might even breakout the old R9 .20 cal and put the effort into becoming good with it!  Again, thanks for all the help because I need all the help I can get!