Crosman NP Product Seals Re-visited

[Desert Rat]

I'm one of the many frustrated new guys trying to find seals for my two new rifles. Crosman Titan GP and Benjamin Trail NP XL. Both guns are 22 caliber. The XL takes a BT22-04-1 seal and I am reasonably sure the Maccari part is WTPS-T. I have no idea what the Maccari equivalent for the Titan B18-04-1 is. I do know that B18-04-1 fits a whole passel of Crosman/Benjamin products - springers included. I am 62 years old and have been doing my own gunsmithing for most of my adult life. I am also a skilled machinist and measuring things is what we do in the machinist trade. I agree with Charlie about collecting measurement data as you don't really know from one run to the next of any given make and model of gun what changes the factory has decided to make. I do however see a tremendous need for someone to collect data for the library as a cross reference to which after market seals will work in which guns. There needs to be some compromise here. There is a lot of data out there that is just going to waste and that is a shame!

Is Maccari my only choice for after market seals?

Is Moly my only choice for seal lube? No!

Do I need a spring compressor to work on NP guns? Not the XL. The Titan GP shoots way too well for me to mess with at this point.

There are lots of simple questions that one needs reliable answers to in order to do a home tuning job. They have all been answered hundreds of times. It is time this forum has a spot for such tuning information. There is a remarkable amount of information in the library already. Thanks for all who have taken the time to contribute their efforts there. Just a little cross reference will cut down on the questions and make an already great forum in to an outstanding forum.

Thanks for listening to my rant!

Daniel

[Mack]

first Daniel you are not on rant, I agree 100% let's put all this data and info together on these guns and rifles, It just seems redundant to see the same question and info on the same thing over and over. If you just take the NP XL for instances there is a lot of user data that would make it a lot easier for the newbie and pro to sort through much easier than all these threads, just my thoughts

[dkwflight]

Hi

I have posted a similar tought on the shop gate.

I had wanted an a permanent list of parts, seals specifically.
part numbers dimensions, interchange data for each rifle.
In other words a crosman seal might work in just about any 1" bore cylinder

The crosman seals I have bought have been pretty good quality if possibly a bit soft.

[3ants]

i would use the crosman seals they fit alittle tighter but i have had better luck with them in my 1100 xl

[Desert Rat]

i would use the crosman seals they fit alittle tighter but i have had better luck with them in my 1100 xl

Thanks 3ants! This is exactly the kind of information needed. I think I will just order seals from Crosman so I can have a factory seal to use to make some other comparisons. Then I always have a fresh factory seal for a stare and compare with third party seals. Then keep a record on a per gun basis as to which seal performs the best. This, like pellets, could vary form gun to gun.

[Desert Rat]

Hi

I have posted a similar tought on the shop gate.

I had wanted an a permanent list of parts, seals specifically.
part numbers dimensions, interchange data for each rifle.
In other words a crosman seal might work in just about any 1" bore cylinder

The crosman seals I have bought have been pretty good quality if possibly a bit soft.

I have a feeling you are right on the money about the 1 inch bore. Time will tell and that is one thing I will be keeping notes on for future reference. Thanks for your input!

[gene_sc]

Daniel, I wish I had a saw buck for every time JM has had to change dimensions on his apex seals in the last 10 years. He is constantly changing dimensions to keep up with seals size's for most of the Chinese made line of air guns. For years he would buy a new model every time Gamo or Crosman would come out with new one. He finally is making the oversized 1" seals that you can turn down your self for a perfect fit.

For years when tuning these guns I would run into the issue of the action tubes not staying consistent in I/D. Probably 4 out of every ten tunes I would have to resize seals. It is not the seal manufacturers problem but the air gun manufacturers low quality control.

[Desert Rat]

Daniel, I wish I had a saw buck for every time JM has had to change dimensions on his apex seals in the last 10 years. He is constantly changing dimensions to keep up with seals size's for most of the Chinese made line of air guns. For years he would buy a new model every time Gamo or Crosman would come out with new one. He finally is making the oversized 1" seals that you can turn down your self for a perfect fit.

For years when tuning these guns I would run into the issue of the action tubes not staying consistent in I/D. Probably 4 out of every ten tunes I would have to resize seals. It is not the seal manufacturers problem but the air gun manufacturers low quality control.

Thanks for weighing in on this thread gene_sc. Quality control is a major issue in some parts of the world. Modern CNC machines are only as good as the tolerances they are programmed to deliver. They are capable of extremely tight tolerances and I see no excuse for not taking advantage of their capabilities. Perhaps the Chinese are not using CNC machinery? I wonder if these problems are also present in European guns as well? Somehow I doubt it is as they are much more expensive and I would think of a higher quality.

Another problem arises when the cylinders are not concentric. Not going to get a perfect fit if the cylinder is out of round. Proper QC is the only answer for this as the amount of time spent re-boring the cylinder would be too expensive!

I would like to know more about turning seals down for a good fit. I have no experience with this type of material. Sounds interesting!

[gene_sc]

I think JM has some information on his web site about the process of turning down seals for sizing. I learned early on working with Bob Werner, AKA Charlie Da Tuna that a big part of a pro tune was making sure you had a good fit with the seal you used.

Most all the German guns were very little fluctuating tube dimensions but the Chinese and Spanish guns were awful...

First thing I did was make a jig to hold the seals in my lathe so they could be properly turned down. And still use it to this day.

[Desert Rat]

I think JM has some information on his web site about the process of turning down seals for sizing. I learned early on working with Bob Werner, AKA Charlie Da Tuna that a big part of a pro tune was making sure you had a good fit with the seal you used.

Most all the German guns were very little fluctuating tube dimensions but the Chinese and Spanish guns were awful...

First thing I did was make a jig to hold the seals in my lathe so they could be properly turned down. And still use it to this day.

Thanks! I will check it out.