.222/223 is the best caliber for bullet shooters on a budget!

[Ribbonstone]

M10 single shot had a lot of things going for it as a slug shooter.   Still had the need for skinny slugs (.222ish) and the standard twist  would work with slugs to about .415" length (weight would depend on shape).  Would have been an easier conversion to a .224"faster twist barrel because of the thimble system(which wouldn't require an in-the-barrel o-ring).

Never had a chance to sit down side by side with a repeater type M10 ...somewhere in faulty memory, thinking they didn't change the M10 desgination for rhe first repeater versions...visually, there seems some differences that would hint at internal differences.  Just never had the chance to do a side-by-side.

Will read the slug-posts,at least the ones that seem practical for a sporter type rifle, and dabble in it now and again,but just not really ready make one dedicated to fast twists and slug use.

If I do....would be a .224"barrel and likely a 1:9 or 1:10 twist....until that (if ever) happens, will just continue to adapt the slugs to the barrel rather than adapt the barrel to the slugs.

[scion19801]

this concept intrigues me. where would one get a barrel blank in this sizing and not break the bank? what would be a decent twist rate? the platform i would put this on is the .25 gauntlet. i think going to a smaller cal projectile would definitely increase fps for slugs. slug use would be the intended purpose here. the gauntlet has a 24" long barrel. So would the said barrel blank also need to be 24". this is all new to me and trying to absorb as much as i can so i'm within safe pressure limits. plus being able to still retain the .25 barrel for pellet use is a must. gauntlet barrel would be super easy to get machined. not much to them. neck down the barrel to fit receiver,cut 3 external o'ring grooves, and drill a transfer port opening. and taper the leade in the chamber. crown both ends and make a new probe.

[JayV21]

this concept intrigues me. where would one get a barrel blank in this sizing and not break the bank? what would be a decent twist rate? the platform i would put this on is the .25 gauntlet. i think going to a smaller cal projectile would definitely increase fps for slugs. slug use would be the intended purpose here. the gauntlet has a 24" long barrel. So would the said barrel blank also need to be 24". this is all new to me and trying to absorb as much as i can so i'm within safe pressure limits. plus being able to still retain the .25 barrel for pellet use is a must. gauntlet barrel would be super easy to get machined. not much to them. neck down the barrel to fit receiver,cut 3 external o'ring grooves, and drill a transfer port opening. and taper the leade in the chamber. crown both ends and make a new probe.

TJ Barrel liners.  I believe they go by TJ Enterprises.  The person to talk to is Todd. I’ve dealt with them via email.  No problems at all.

[rkr]

Here's one example, might actually be cheaper than TJs. https://www.lothar-walther.com/gun-barrel-blanks/rifle-barrels/standard-european/434/barrel-blank-twist-12.6.222rem/5-6x50mag/5-6x50rmag-od.39-l-29.72-cr-moly-steel?c=34

[rsterne]

I never knew that LW had smaller diameter PB barrels available.... I looked through their "Standard European" blanks, which is where they are hiding (and in the Rimfire section), and found the following.... All are available for only $120 in CrMoly…. 

.224 cal 12" twist in 0.39" OD x 29.72" long, and 0.67" x 24.41" long.... (.223 Rem)
.224 cal 12.6" twist in 0.39" OD x 29.72" long, and 0.67" OD x 26.18" long.... (.222 Rem. 5.6mm)
.222 cal 15.4" twist in 0.39" OD x 29.72" long, also 0.47" OD x 25.79" long, and 0.67" OD x 24.41" long.... (.22 Hornet)
.221 cal 16.4" twist in 0.39" OD x 29.72" long, also 0.47" OD x 27.17" long, and 0.59" OD x 24.41" long, or 0.67" OD x 26.18" long.... (.22LR)
.224 cal 17.7" twist in 0.39" OD x 29.72" long, and 0.67" OD x 24.41" long, both $120.... (.22 Mag)

There are, of course, tons of barrels made in larger diameters (up to 1.5"), but they are very heavy, and a LOT more expensive.... The ones above do appear to be worth considering for airgun use.... You can get CF sleeves in many Metric IDs to match the diameters listed above.... I would definitely sleeve the 10mm (0.39") and 12mm (0.47") barrels.... The 15 mm (0.59") could also be used without sleeving…. and the 17 mm (0.67") I wouldn't bother sleeving, it is already pretty stout....

Bob

[Sbak]

I should have read a few more posts, the m10 (at least the one I have) is a single shot. My person preference is single shot only and I forget that everyone thinks they need a magazine fed bullet shooter. I wouldn't go faster than a 1:14 twist, it will stabilize a really long .22 round and is on the borderline of just being slightly to fast for the sub 40gr bullets out there.

[rsterne]

I think anything heavier than about 50 gr. you will need a 12" twist.... Don't forget that at the subsonic velocities we shoot, faster twist rates are necessary than what you use in a .223 PB at 3000+ fps.... According to the Kolbe twist calculator, the 14" twist is perfect for the 47 gr. 225420 Bowman by Arsenal....

Bob

[scion19801]

I think I'm leaning towards this barrel mated to my .25 gauntlet.
Barrel Blank - Twist:12.6" | .222Rem/5,6x50Mag/5,6x50RMag | OD:.67" | L:26.18" | Cr-Moly Steel"
.219 bore
.224 groove
Is this twist going to be ok?

[rkr]

I think I'm leaning towards this barrel mated to my .25 gauntlet.
Barrel Blank - Twist:12.6" | .222Rem/5,6x50Mag/5,6x50RMag | OD:.67" | L:26.18" | Cr-Moly Steel"
.219 bore
.224 groove
Is this twist going to be ok?

I've been using that twist succesfully with 47 grain 225420 bullets. 24" version is enough for 980 fps.

[Sbak]

1:14 twist will stabilize 60gr bullets perfectly fine. Faster twist is never more accurate than a slower twist that is still adequate. If you want to shoot 60+ grain lead you will be better off going to .257

[scion19801]

I think I'm leaning towards this barrel mated to my .25 gauntlet.
Barrel Blank - Twist:12.6" | .222Rem/5,6x50Mag/5,6x50RMag | OD:.67" | L:26.18" | Cr-Moly Steel"
.219 bore
.224 groove
Is this twist going to be ok?

I've been using that twist succesfully with 47 grain 225420 bullets. 24" version is enough for 980 fps.

what if i go lighter than 47gr? will the twist still be ok? should i go with a slower twist rate? Or should i just make sure i can get my power level up to push them. Mind you that i'm basing this off a .25 gauntlet. 3000 psi bottle reglated to maybe 2000 or 2100 psi. hope it will be enough.

[JayV21]

I think I'm leaning towards this barrel mated to my .25 gauntlet.
Barrel Blank - Twist:12.6" | .222Rem/5,6x50Mag/5,6x50RMag | OD:.67" | L:26.18" | Cr-Moly Steel"
.219 bore
.224 groove
Is this twist going to be ok?

I've been using that twist succesfully with 47 grain 225420 bullets. 24" version is enough for 980 fps.

On what platform did you use for the 47 grain 225420 bullets?

[rkr]

I think I'm leaning towards this barrel mated to my .25 gauntlet.
Barrel Blank - Twist:12.6" | .222Rem/5,6x50Mag/5,6x50RMag | OD:.67" | L:26.18" | Cr-Moly Steel"
.219 bore
.224 groove
Is this twist going to be ok?

I've been using that twist succesfully with 47 grain 225420 bullets. 24" version is enough for 980 fps.

On what platform did you use for the 47 grain 225420 bullets?

It's BSA Scorpion, mostly. Parts bin special. I.haven't shot lighter bullets much and the few I did were undersized thus not grouping that well.

[KnifeMaker]

For even lower cost, if using cf tubing for stiffness and ultra light weight is somthing you enjoy, whre is a steal in liners!


I am using both 1-16 and 1-20 twist. the slower twist is a laser in both 29 and 39 grain slugs.


Ric, I have the same mold on order. Having it made up at .223 as cast. My barrels mic. at .2213.


I don't like shooting as cast. I always want to size down a bit which gives a more consistent and more perfectly round bullet resulting in better accuracy.


I wanted to order from Swede at NOE, but have been very frustrated as NOE has not listed them in a long time now. I finally ordered it from Arsenal.  the 1-20 shots the decked version of the listed Arsenal slug very well indeed.
I shoot it in both the Raptor at .2213 and the PP 700 pistol at .216.


Here are the very well finished in the bore liners from Brownells gun smithing supply.


these are button rifled and have a very smooth bore.


 www.brownells.com/aspx/search/default.aspx?cid=0&k=barrel%20liners&t=P&ksubmit=y




Knife/Mike

[scion19801]

only one is stock...definitely cheap and wouldn't be out much if it doesn't work as planned.
770-100-022WB
Brownells/Redman 1-16 Twist 25" Liner, .22LR rimfire. .310" od..Hmm now to find a carbon tube. this would certainly save some weight off the heavy gauntlet.

edit: might be over thinking this but....using the liner and machining a spacer adapter for the breech that has the leade in and transfer port cut in to mate up to the liner and extend down the liner a few inches beyond receiver. then put a carbon tube on, then an adapter/spacer on the muzzle end with a nut. similar to how fx does their barrels. then shroud the assemble so that it still looks stock and retains the air stripper and ldc inside. this would then be easy to swap barrels between 1:16 twist and 1:20 twist once its available or even any other barrel. just machine barrel ends to fit said receiver breech adapter. Would this not be basically a tension barrel setup? maybe even have to orings to keep barrel centered like fx does. or is the liner way to weak to handle this?

[rsterne]

Dan, if you are planning on using only 2000-2100 psi and a 26" barrel, I would not recommend you build around the idea of a 47 gr. slug.... IMO you will be doing a good job to reach 80 FPE at that pressure, which would be a 40 gr. slug at 950 fps.... In my .224 Hayabusa, which was unregulated with a 29" barrel and where the smallest port was 0.206" (almost bore area), at 2100 psi I was getting 960-970 fps (85 FPE) with a 41.3 gr. slug.... At 3000 psi, I could shoot the same slug at 1077 fps, and the 47 gr. Bowman at 1035 fps.... With it tuned down for a decent shot string, filling the 460 cc reservoir to 3000 psi, I could get 5 shots at 100 FPE or 7 shots at 90 FPE.... In a regulated PCP (29"barrel, bore size porting) with a 2800 psi setpoint I was right at 100 FPE with the 47 gr. slugs....

My point is that with a given barrel length the FPE will be pretty much proportional to the pressure.... If you are going to use 2000-2100 psi, I would stick to a slug of about 40 gr.... The NOE 225-39 (Lyman 225107) would be an excellent choice.... which would be fine in a 16-16.4" twist, and likely even OK in a 17.7-18" twist....

Bob

[scion19801]

Great info bob. Thanks. Was think more along the NOE 225-39 round as it was. Umarex USA just notified me today that they received my gauntlet. Sent in due to a bad dent in barrel about 4 inches from muzzle end. So just looking at all options depending on what they have to say about the barrel issue. Reading through this thread got me to thinking about a down size in caliber based on the .25 figuring the ,25 setup was pushing more than what a .22 cal one was. Plus slug options are more plentiful in .22 at moment.
Still very new to Pcp world and learning a lot. Read all the hard air magazine articles on Pcp tuning and tweaking. I have not had a chance to sit down and fully measure out the stock gauntlet internals. Need to once I get it back an make sure it shooting as it should. Then I figure I can plug in the numbers to see what I could possibly manage to squeeze out of the platform without messing too much with the .25 setup. Regulator pressure changes aren't too big a deal could go up or down fairly easily. Just mainly looking to be able to make reliable and accurate shots out to 100 or so yards. Currently couldn't get over 35 yards accurately with the bad barrel and y I sent it in for repair. Others manage 50+ with no issues.
Edit. Gauntlet has 24 inch oal barrel with port at 23 1/2 inches from muzzle iirc. So was planing to keep to a 24 inch barrel length.

[Rallyshark]

I'm never one to discourage a good project, but I don't think you'll be able to get that kind of power out of a Guantlet.  Especially not a regulated one with the factory setup.  You will need a big plenum to make that power regulated, so it will require some modifications in that department.  Then there is the question of the valve in the gun being able to flow well enough(and the porting).  Granted, I'm definitely not a Gauntlet expert, but I don't recall seeing any posts of them making anywhere close to the power levels being discussed.  Maybe, some of the Gauntlet gurus will chime in on that.  With what I know about them, you'd probably be best off just getting a good airgun barrel and sticking to pellets, or slugs that the barrel chosen is known to shoot somewhat consistently at lower power levels.  I think a "What's the most power anyone has got out of a Gauntlet?" post would point you in the right direction, and tell you if those power levels are feasible.

[scion19801]

 Rallyshark : this is y all this is being discussed. The .25 cal has a plenum volume of 25 c.c. Iirc. Not sure on port differences between it and the stock .22's. I know 1100 psi is stock on .22 whereas the .25 can handle 2100. The gauntlet will get the jsar super tune kit. Then a new probe to match the .223 cal barrel. If the stock lower tube won't handle or produce the power then a new tube and drop bottle block will be needed to help increase plenum size. My thought were with dropping caliber size would allow for more push on smaller caliber. Still more research on the port sizing differences between .22 and .25 stock gauntlets. They may very well have the same porting, in which case I could be chasing what isnt there. But for a .223 liner for $35 dollars and some other odds an ends I wouldn't lose much if it don't pan out.

[Rallyshark]

Rallyshark : this is y all this is being discussed. The .25 cal has a plenum volume of 25 c.c. Iirc. Not sure on port differences between it and the stock .22's. I know 1100 psi is stock on .22 whereas the .25 can handle 2100. The gauntlet will get the jsar super tune kit. Then a new probe to match the .223 cal barrel. If the stock lower tube won't handle or produce the power then a new tube and drop bottle block will be needed to help increase plenum size. My thought were with dropping caliber size would allow for more push on smaller caliber. Still more research on the port sizing differences between .22 and .25 stock gauntlets. They may very well have the same porting, in which case I could be chasing what isnt there. But for a .223 liner for $35 dollars and some other odds an ends I wouldn't lose much if it don't pan out.

That's very true about the liner, so not a huge loss if it doesn't work out   I don't know enough about the Gauntlet to say whether it would work or not, but I do know you'll definitely need more plenum to work with.  You generally want to get as close to 1cc per fpe as you can, but upping the set point can overcome the plenum size a little(learned that one from Bob ) .  As long as there is enough material and room, ports can always be opened up more, so that would help.  Porting will need to be close to bore size I think.