Bullpup trials...awnser is "no"

[Ribbonstone]

I really tried to like Bullpups...but the evidence/experience has been against the breed.

PLUS:

1.Accuracy has been every bit as good from a bench as "traditional"rifles.
2.The are short in length for afull length barreled CP.


NEUTRAL:

3.  Try as much as I can, there is NO BONUS POINTS fo being a bullpup.  Cannot see how it shoots any better (smAller groups) or any faster than a tradtional stocked air rifle of trhe same make.

4.Cannot say it's better or worse...pretty much the same velocity/enery/accuracy as the "tradtional" version of the bull pup.
5. If there is an increase in performance frombullpup to treadationaly stocking, it totally escapes my critial/directed attention.

NEGATIVE:

6. Poor balance.both front to back  and top to bottom.  It's really the high vertical profile that makes them want to tip over mopre than the back-to-front balace.

7. Really high Scope sight line over borwe line scope mounting.

8. Away from a sandbagged bench (or a bi-pod)  Bullpups handling leaves me wishing for somthing a  little more user friendly.

Just not seeing the Bullpup "specialness"....are just ill balanced and "stumpy".


-----------


Got the HAtsan Flashpup box out...and the brown cardboard shipping box...am packing it up, lots of bubble packing, and sealing it up (keeping in mind that the UPS/FedEWX/etc. guys seem to be rather rought on packages).


Just too much time/effort/ examples at home of "traditonal"airguns. Bullpupishness would  grow on you (...like a fungus?...) if all you shot were bullpups.

HAve yet to see where bullpuips  are some bonus-design or  "genetically" better....are just "stumpy".

YES..I could get use to them...if tyhaty was all I shot.Coulfd aslso get use (from experence) to haviong one good eye...or one good arm...and even shooting with both problems (which would be worng side/.wrong eyed).

But for all I can tell ...Just for the compactness of a bull pup....


NO.

[DLP]

Pretty much agree. I don’t like the looks of them either. BUT I do like to be able to keep shooting. And with two blown out shoulders, I just can’t hold a long gun very well. Except for hunting, I can always find a temp rest to shoot from. But to just take a walk and do a little plinking or hunting, the bull pup has made that possible again.

[CraigH]

When I first saw a bullpup (Steyr AUG), I thought "cool!"  -  but later thoughts and analysis arrived at the negatives as presented by Ribbonstone.    I much prefer a standard rifle.

[avator]

Right there with ya Ribbs....
Along with all you said.. I'm a long hair. I'm not into my hair being pulled like some may be. Way too much going on right next to my face,ear and hair.

[mikeyb]

My fist PCPs were the BullBoss in 22 and 25.

The only arguments FOR a bullpup are the "looks cool" factor and the short overall length of the rifle.

For dense wood hunting (stalking or stationary) the short rifle length can be a benefit.
A good carbine however could provide similar benefits.

I am in agreement with all pros and cons listed.

Found NO performance difference (FPE or accuracy) when compared with its classic longer siblings (AT44 series in my case).
The weight balance (front/back), top heaviness, and large optical to bore separation are all NOT as good as the normal rifle versions.

I now have several normal AT44 rifles and feel they are more comfortable to shoot than the bullpup versions.
I will be keeping my BullBosses for the compactness and "looks cool" reasons and the convenience that all my AT44 based rifles have (mostly) the same interchangeable parts.

But... I WON'T be buying any more bullpups.

[anti-squirrel]

Bullpups are a particular design that meets certain needs.  IIRC, they were intended originally for a super-compact close-combat design that keeps the vast majority of mass close to the body, making them more "strength-agnostic", IE: no matter your physical conditioning, build, or level of incapacity, they offered a full length barrel in a short size so full-power shots could be delivered in tight quarters with the weapon held  close so the weight wasn't overly-far from the body.  You can also swing across a zone while keep things close to the body without as much exposure.  Since less weight is way out in front, the traversing action is faster.

IE: they're great for urban assault/defense, close-quarters fights, and for use by those without the physical ability to easily handle rifle-based platforms.  This also means that for those looking to use full-power in dense underbrush (such as my local woods here in VA) they're mighty fine.  For indoor pesting operations where you may be roving a large building with obstructions everywhere, they also excel.  But for other evolutions, like long-range hunting/pesting across open spaces or competition, I'd think a conventional rifle layout would be far more preferable.

My personal views are that the configuration is just another format for a tool, much like a hypoid-drive 7 1/4" skilsaw versus a conventional Skilsaw.  They fill the same role but the former has much more torque but is less maneuverable.  Hammers are another similar item; perhaps an even better example.  Imagine two 20 ounce hammers; one has the waffle-face and a nearly-straight claw.  This is a framing hammer- for rough framing, hanging joists, cripples, and buttress joints.  IE: surfaces that will eventually be covered in sheetrock or other finished surfaces.  The other has a smooth-milled face and a similar claw- this is a general-purpose ripping hammer.  It doesn't excel at framing but the smooth face is unlikely to mar a surface, which means it is better suited to deck-building or other tasks where a waffle-imprint for an imperfect strike would be unsightly, or in roles where the sheer mass can be negated by "choking up" for more deft hammering tasks (IE: trim/cabinetry)

A bullpup is nothing more than a different configuration of parts to make a rifle.  Now here's a funny thing:  I find that bullpups don't bother me, but most bottle-guns do. 

Now- as good as bullpups are for tighter quarters, a pistol is even better- provided you're not looking for a full length barrel.  And carbines tend to be more compact rifles, usually with a slightly shorter barrel and smaller size overall.  A monkey gibbon gorilla guy like me with long arms can find some carbines really cramp my style.  LOL, in my neck of the woods, as good as the rifles are for tree-rats, my PP700 pistol is just simply even better.

[K.O.]

Bull pups have only one type of use to me... and make very little sense at all in an air rifle...

in close quarters urban or dense growth  I would still prefer something like the HK MP5 to a pup... the use I see for something like a P90 is as a bodyguard/Secret Service in a car... that is it...

If you like the looks of a pup for an air rifle..well that is fine... just not for me...I like my air rifles to look like an air rifle... and have always liked carbines...balance function everything...

pups just hamstring to many things in an air rifle... and say you are up at 200 fpe... do you really want your eyes that close to a possible blow open or blown breech o-ring..?

[Motorhead]

Lol ... "The lets bash bullpups thread"

Agree on whats been said ... but DON'T agree totally with the bashing because of whats been omitted from the conversation.

Deep woods hiking where the compactness is FAR easier to carry and maneuver in tight quarters.  Able to be carried nearly concealed or in a suited long back back
Really like a "Pup" for the short length because your not waving around a long barrel when some hunting situations & quarry hunted are very motion sensitive.  Turkeys, some squirrel species etc ....


Lol ... As you were 

[Nomadic Pirate]

Bullpups look sexy !!!!

I love the compact looks of bullpups, but I also agree on the shortcomings.

I had my bullpup stage, I had a bunch of them but I don't anymore.


And it really makes me laugh when it's mentioned "better for hunting in dense forest ".......well I can tell you, if it's so dense that you can't swing a full sized rifle then you won't get a shot that's longer then single digit yardage either, so that reason goes down the drain

Pups advantage for me is in the ability to carry them on a one point sling for when you need both hands to navigate, but I can do the same with a mini carbine and they weight much less because of the shorter barrel and air reservoir and I can get my scopes much closer to the bore,

Yep I had a bunch of Pups, ........no more, still I would love to buy an Edgun R5M .25

[gendoc]

have yall anti-bullpup guys even ever shot a Taipan veteran ?

just a warning..... the hook is very sharp and it will get you 

[chuckinohio]

have yall anti-bullpup guys even ever shot a Taipan veteran ?

just a warning..... the hook is very sharp and it will get you 

  I prefer the midship cocking lever of the FX Wildcat and the Vulcan, but the Taipans sure do hold their own against any and all comers.
  I've never been put off or inconvenienced by scope height on a pup any more than a shooting a rifle set up for field target use.

[jarmstrong]

I have both, each has it's use
got a long HW110 fac really long and a Kozak compact, it gets shot the most
next to buy is a Zbroia Sapsan 

[Nomadic Pirate]

have yall anti-bullpup guys even ever shot a Taipan veteran ?

just a warning..... the hook is very sharp and it will get you 

Taipan Veteran was I gun I seriously considered,
......and I also had already planned to move the stock backwards to make it into a Carbine, would be easy and I believe it would make it a better rifle,....for me at least

[Ribbonstone]

Not that I give up easy.




It's really hard to present the difference in handling/balance in just pictures...its one of those things you just have to feel for yourself.


None the less, will make the attempt.

Will label "A" the front to back balance point.
Will label "B" as the vertical balance point.


Just picked a Gamo Urban as the "trandtional" rifle.

With the big scope/no counter weight of a bi-pod.
DSCN1988 by Robert Dean, on Flickr


With a smaller/lighter scope and a bi-pod as counter weight.  Scope mounted @@@ kow as possibler on a bullpup format...have to squah my cheep a little to line up.:

DSCN1986 by Robert Dean, on Flickr


Which doesn't look like a whole bunch of change between A and B...but enough to notice, and enough in the right direction....you can certainly feel it in your hands.

Getting A and B as close together as possible and close to the middle of where your hands would normally grip the forefend and pistol grip make for a lively rifle....unbalanced, can shoot them well from a rest, but they tend to "bite you" off hand catch-as-catch can field shooting.


Still haved the problem of "short hands" (the distance between where trhe hands pretty much have to hold the rifle). 

DSCN1986 by Robert Dean, on Flickr

Noi matter how you look at it, the balance point and the distance between supporting features (in this case hands)  DOES have a lot to do with how well you can shoot an airgun away from a bench/bags/bi-pod.


Does it matter if you are shooting from a bench with bags, clamp rest, or bipod?

Yeah...I think it does.  Unless limiting  good performance to only to artificial rest shooting,

[Bullfrog]

Because my airguns exist primarily as hunters, I do find bullpups valuable because of their maneuverability. And although regular carbines are also maneuverable, the bullpup doesn’t sacrifice the benefits of extra barrel length like a carbine does. 

6-12 inches makes a huge difference as to moving a rifle from one vantage point to another with minimal movement, sound, and visual displacement. 

[Tommyzgunz]

I really tried to like Bullpups...but the evidence/experience has been against the breed.

PLUS:

1.Accuracy has been every bit as good from a bench as "traditional"rifles.
2.The are short in length for afull length barreled CP.


NEUTRAL:

3.  Try as much as I can, there is NO BONUS POINTS fo being a bullpup.  Cannot see how it shoots any better (smAller groups) or any faster than a tradtional stocked air rifle of trhe same make.

4.Cannot say it's better or worse...pretty much the same velocity/enery/accuracy as the "tradtional" version of the bull pup.
5. If there is an increase in performance frombullpup to treadationaly stocking, it totally escapes my critial/directed attention.

NEGATIVE:

6. Poor balance.both front to back  and top to bottom.  It's really the high vertical profile that makes them want to tip over mopre than the back-to-front balace.

7. Really high Scope sight line over borwe line scope mounting.

8. Away from a sandbagged bench (or a bi-pod)  Bullpups handling leaves me wishing for somthing a  little more user friendly.

Just not seeing the Bullpup "specialness"....are just ill balanced and "stumpy".


-----------


Got the HAtsan Flashpup box out...and the brown cardboard shipping box...am packing it up, lots of bubble packing, and sealing it up (keeping in mind that the UPS/FedEWX/etc. guys seem to be rather rought on packages).


Just too much time/effort/ examples at home of "traditonal"airguns. Bullpupishness would  grow on you (...like a fungus?...) if all you shot were bullpups.

HAve yet to see where bullpuips  are some bonus-design or  "genetically" better....are just "stumpy".

YES..I could get use to them...if tyhaty was all I shot.Coulfd aslso get use (from experence) to haviong one good eye...or one good arm...and even shooting with both problems (which would be worng side/.wrong eyed).

But for all I can tell ...Just for the compactness of a bull pup....


NO.

I like the traditional rifles best and the one bullpup I got is the Flashpup. Primarily for walking through more hevaily wooded areas. For me that would maybe be the one benefit of the bullpup style gun. Also very easy to throw in a trunk of even a compact car. It will be in rotation for me in my woods walking this year and then I'll be able to determine if that portability is an advantage or not.

[Ribbonstone]

Bullpupishness is not the only way to get shorter and lighter.

DSCN1928 by Robert Dean, on Flickr
\
So if light/short/maneuverable is a goal...can do it without the "puppy".

[jarmstrong]

Ribbs,
Hatsan Gladius with a Hawke w/front AO was my first pcp. That was my last Hatsan and front AO scope I will own.
Not all bull pups are created equal. Every man gets delight from his own desires, thank God we have many choices to choose from
I wish you long life and many hours of enjoyment with your collection

[Tonykarter]

The Veteran shoots very well off bench and bags.  I cannot shoot them well otherwise.  I love bull-pups, but off-hand...you better be behind me.  But, darn, off the bags, "on the next page" accurate.

Now that I think about it, its been so long since I have shot anything offhand except a pellet pistol.  I may not be worth a carp even with a long gun now.

[Bullfrog]

Bullpupishness is not the only way to get shorter and lighter.

DSCN1928 by Robert Dean, on Flickr
\
So if light/short/maneuverable is a goal...can do it without the "puppy".

Ah, but you can’t do it without sacrificing some power or efficiency, because you have to make up for the longer stock with a shorter barrel.