Lead Removal Test - and Hoppe's #9 O-ring Soak Test

[rsterne]

Check out this YouTube video....



Bob

[aceflier]

Cant beat old Hopes 9 might have to try that on my texan followed by several patches of wax chain lube.

[oldpro]

I’m about to give away a industry secret and that is by far the best lead removal method and it’s also the cheapest but not the easiest. Go to your local Dollar store and buy the cheapest oven cleaner spray you can find then remove the barrel and the orings if it has any then simply plug each end and fill the barrel up threw the transfer port this will absolutely remove ALL lead guaranteed I’ve done it 100s of times. You can also put it on a cotton ball and swab it.

[rsterne]

Sounds like a good way, Travis, if you don't mind the work of removing the barrel and O-rings....

I have always used Hoppe's #9 for all my PBs, it's nice to see a test that shows it is still one of, if not the, best.... I have always wondered what it did to O-rings so I have two 0.070 CS Buna rings, a 70D and 90D, soaking in it right now.... After over an hour there is no noticeable change in diameter or hardness, although it appears that the thickness has increased about 1% (roughly a thou)…. I'll leave them overnight and check them again in the morning.... I have used them on AG's before dried afterwards with a few patches and never had a problem.... but I thought a prolonged soak would settle once and for all if they will stand up to good ol' #9....

Bob

[oldpro]

Definitely not the easiest way but if you have a really fouled barrel it will remove 100% of the lead 100% of the time.

[nervoustrigger]

Bob, thanks for posting that video.  I had a bottle of Hoppe's No. 9 on the shelf that I hadn't used in a while so I decided to clean one of my .177 Crosman barrels.  Here's a closeup of the first patch...



Granted I had recently run a bunch of Crosman Premier Hollow Points through it but I don't typically see that many lead flakes on the first patch when I use other cleaners like Goo Gone or Kroil.  The next couple of patches were pretty dirty looking but no noticeable flakes.  Kinda makes me wish I had a particularly stubborn bore that needed to be cleaned but by now I've pretty much done the J-B Bore Paste and Bore Brite treatment to them all.  Nonetheless I think I'll continue using it for routine cleaning for a while and see how it goes.

[rkr]

I wonder how carburetor or break cleaner would do, anyone tried those?

[Dairyboy]

I wonder how carburetor or break cleaner would do, anyone tried those?

That brake cleaner works amazing on other things I'm sure it would clean barrels very very well.

[rsterne]

After soaking the O-rings in Hoppe's #9 for 20 hours, there was a noticeable change in their characteristics.... The 90D "felt" like a 70D, and the 70D was a lot softer than it started out.... They were both 0.070" CS at the beginning, and the 70D swelled up to about 0.074" and the 90D to about 0.072".... They were 1/2" OD, and the diameter of the 70D increased about 0.030" and the 90D about 0.015".... So, the #9 had about twice the effect on the 70D O-ring that it did on the 90D.... about a 6% increase for the 70D and about 3% for the 90D....

I now have both O-rings dried off and sitting on my bench.... I will check them tomorrow to see if they shrink back to their original size and harden up again as the Hoppe's evaporates.... Other than being "softer", they appear normal, they are not gummy or cracked....

Bob

[truck]

Good report, lets see what tomorrow holds.

[Tonykarter]

I recently found an old Hoppe's shotgun cleaning kit I got for Christmas back in '69.  It still had the little bottle of #9 in it.  I used it sparingly then, and have been using it sparingly since I found it.  Still smells exactly like it did when they made it.  Bob I am so glad you posted this.  I read a thread somewhere on another forum that was very convincing that #9 should never be used to clean an airgun.  Glad they were wrong.  It DOES clean lead good, doesn't it!

[rsterne]

It will be interesting to see if the O-rings return to "normal" after a day or two.... It's not like cleaning with a bore snake or rod and patch would be anything like leaving the O-rings soaking in #9 for 20 hours anyways.... and they certainly didn't "fall apart" or go all "gummy" like they would with some solvents.... I can remember what brake cleaner did to the rubber cups in brake cylinders.... not a pretty sight, all gummy, black stuff coming off on your hands, and swollen about 25%....

We'll see what they are like tomorrow.... If they have returned to "normal" or close, I would not be afraid of using Hoppes to clean an airgun….

Bob

[Insanity]

It will be interesting to see if the O-rings return to "normal" after a day or two.... It's not like cleaning with a bore snake or rod and patch would be anything like leaving the O-rings soaking in #9 for 20 hours anyways.... and they certainly didn't "fall apart" or go all "gummy" like they would with some solvents.... I can remember what brake cleaner did to the rubber cups in brake cylinders.... not a pretty sight, all gummy, black stuff coming off on your hands, and swollen about 25%....

We'll see what they are like tomorrow.... If they have returned to "normal" or close, I would not be afraid of using Hoppes to clean an airgun….

Bob

I had a conversation with Dennis Baker about air guns that were regularly cleaned with CLP, #9, remoil or the likes. He said every one had some sort of sealing failure after the rubber broke down and turned into a sludge of sorts.

[anti-squirrel]

A lot depends on what the O-rings are made of.  Some are relatively inert; some are not.  You figure there's ethyl-pro rubber, silicone, nitrile-rubber (so called BUNA AKA Buna-Nitrile), polyurethane and urethane, fluorocarbon (AKA Viton which isn't really affected by anything!), and of course, neoprene (whch would be pointless in airguns).

The Viton are always my first choice, but that's also cuz of working in a hydraulic shop during my navy years and handling a couple O-rings.  Viton is excellent in HPA systems; it is in fact what we used in Vaaco reducers and Marotta actuators.  Buna-N was the first choice for hydraulics, but based on some of the mil-spec docs, that was as much because of cost as anything- they're cheaper than fluorocarbon.

My father-in-law told me about oven-cleaner for deep cleaning barrels- I never bought into that but now... especially given how accurate his father's .32 USAF service revolver still is, I think I may give it a go (thanks Travis!).  I still prefer the scent of Hoppe's over CLP 

[T3PRanch]

Be advised that most oven cleaners are very alkaline (high PH). This will strip anodization from aluminum before it literally dissolves the aluminum away.


I had a kit for making hydrogen balloons when I was a kid that illustrated this process. It contained lye prills which were put in a coke bottle and then water added. Chopped up strips of aluminum foil were added then a balloon was stretched over the mouth off the bottle. The reaction between the aluminum foil and lye liberated a lot of hydrogen which filled the balloon. Once full a string was tied to it to seal the balloon and a message pouch attached. The balloon was then launched into the wild blue yonder!


I shudder to think of a pretty new Raptor and a ruined finish. An Impact and exposure to this solution would be pure TERROR!

[rsterne]

I have no doubt that you can find O-rings that are completely impervious to Hoppe's #9.... However, most of our airguns use plain ol' Buna-N, which is what I typically use, because I can buy them locally.... That is why I'm testing them.... I have seen what "brake cleaner" does to rubber, it does indeed turn it into a "sludge".... I did not see that with the test I performed, which was a 20 hour soak in liquid #9.... YMMV of course....

Bob

[oldpro]

Be advised that most oven cleaners are very alkaline (high PH). This will strip anodization from aluminum before it literally dissolves the aluminum away.


I had a kit for making hydrogen balloons when I was a kid that illustrated this process. It contained lye prills which were put in a coke bottle and then water added. Chopped up strips of aluminum foil were added then a balloon was stretched over the mouth off the bottle. The reaction between the aluminum foil and lye liberated a lot of hydrogen which filled the balloon. Once full a string was tied to it to seal the balloon and a message pouch attached. The balloon was then launched into the wild blue yonder!


I shudder to think of a pretty new Raptor and a ruined finish. An Impact and exposure to this solution would be pure TERROR!

Thats why I said you have to pull the barrel and orings this is only for stubborn deposits that wont come out conventionally 

[BigBird]

How about home brew "Ed's Red".  Ive got a fifth (750ml) + aging nicely in the basement for PB cleaning.

This site has the formulation aand a bunch of other "home remedies" for cleaning, storage, etc.
https://www.frfrogspad.com/homemade.htm

[Dave S]

A lot depends on what the O-rings are made of.  Some are relatively inert; some are not.  You figure there's ethyl-pro rubber, silicone, nitrile-rubber (so called BUNA AKA Buna-Nitrile), polyurethane and urethane, fluorocarbon (AKA Viton which isn't really affected by anything!), and of course, neoprene (whch would be pointless in airguns).

The Viton are always my first choice, but that's also cuz of working in a hydraulic shop during my navy years and handling a couple O-rings.  Viton is excellent in HPA systems; it is in fact what we used in Vaaco reducers and Marotta actuators.  Buna-N was the first choice for hydraulics, but based on some of the mil-spec docs, that was as much because of cost as anything- they're cheaper than fluorocarbon.

My father-in-law told me about oven-cleaner for deep cleaning barrels- I never bought into that but now... especially given how accurate his father's .32 USAF service revolver still is, I think I may give it a go (thanks Travis!).  I still prefer the scent of Hoppe's over CLP 

Viton is good for almost all petroleum applications, however, Viton and Buna-A CANNOT handle Co2. The ONLY material that works with Co2 are POLYURETHANE O-rings and seals!
Just thought I'd throw that one in! Dave

[nervoustrigger]

True about Viton being incompatible with CO2.  It is permeable to CO2.  Actually there is a type of Viton that is compatible but the common kind we typically encounter is not compatible.  It also swells in the presence of high pressure air but it does not seem to lose pressure so it works fine for static seals but the swelling can pose problems for dynamic (moving) seals.
 
Buna-N on the other hand is just fine for CO2.  Technically most common seal materials are permeable to CO2 to some degree.  I don’t have the numbers in front of me but it is low for Buna-N.  A recent anecdote, my SPA 600 has Buna-N seals and was put away last fall with a partial 12gr Powerlet.  When I pulled it back out 5 months later, it still had pressure.  That’s good enough for me to consider it negligible.