Frustrated with my Benjamin Trail NP XL .22

[BritishDriver]

I have a Benjamin Trail NP XL .22 that is frustrating me.  I can’t get this rifle to group.  I have shot 350 to 400 different pellets through the barrel.  I replaced the trigger with a Charlie Da Tuna GTR-III and the scope with a Vortex Diamondback Rimfire that has a set 50 yard parallax.  I wonder if it tore up this scope too.    The darn thing just doesn’t seem to group or track right.  The trigger feels great now and I thought would help as with any rifle with bad trigger, but it is either me or the rifle that is still awful in accuracy.  I am going to see if it is any better around 35 yards or less, but I am ready to give up on this rifle.  If I can’t get this rifle to be accurate between 35 to 50 yards I wasted quite a bit of time and money trying.

Truth be told I don't have a lot of experience with air rifles.  Maybe I am just expecting too much out of this rifle.

[Roadworthy]

With little experience in spring piston air rifles you may have picked the wrong rifle to start.  The XL series is more powerful than most rifles.  With power comes difficulty controlling shot placement as recoil can be harsh.  They are also more prone to destroy scopes.  Start with the basics.  If you've not done so, clean the barrel.  Are all screws tight including scope screws?  Cock the gun.  Place the butt on the floor and the stock between your knees.  Try to move the barrel from side to side.  Does it move at all?  If you're using a rimfire scope it may be done in by this point.  They are not built to handle the double recoil of a springer.  You should be aware this is not a firearm.  Recoil starts when you pull the trigger and the piston goes into motion.  The barrel will not be aimed at the same point when the pellet exits as it was when you pulled the trigger.  That is why hold consistency is so important.  Do your groups spread in any particular direction, that is side to side or up and down?  After the basics are covered we can start talking about internal stuff to do.  Of course the problem may not be the gun at all.  Shooting a springer is a new skill and it can take months or years to perfect.  Again, they do not shoot quite like a firearm though with practice they can become as accurate or more so than a rimfire.

[BritishDriver]

With little experience in spring piston air rifles you may have picked the wrong rifle to start.  The XL series is more powerful than most rifles.  With power comes difficulty controlling shot placement as recoil can be harsh.  They are also more prone to destroy scopes.  Start with the basics.  If you've not done so, clean the barrel.  Are all screws tight including scope screws?  Cock the gun.  Place the butt on the floor and the stock between your knees.  Try to move the barrel from side to side.  Does it move at all?

I can't find anything loose.  I also cleaned the barrel.

If you're using a rimfire scope it may be done in by this point.  They are not built to handle the double recoil of a springer.  You should be aware this is not a firearm.  Recoil starts when you pull the trigger and the piston goes into motion.

I contacted Vortex before the purchase and they recommended their Diamondback line or better would handle the punishment of the forward/reverse recoil and they would stand behind it.  Leuopold claims any of their scopes will handle the abuse and will stand behind them.  Hawke said Anything, but the Vantage line,  the vantage line of scopes is designed to be used on airguns producing 12 ftlbs. or less of energy. All airguns producing over 12 ftlbs. of energy need to use the AirMax line of scopes or above.

The barrel will not be aimed at the same point when the pellet exits as it was when you pulled the trigger.  That is why hold consistency is so important.  Do your groups spread in any particular direction, that is side to side or up and down?  After the basics are covered we can start talking about internal stuff to do.

I will get back to you.  I want to start over at a closer distance. 

Of course the problem may not be the gun at all.  Shooting a springer is a new skill and it can take months or years to perfect.  Again, they do not shoot quite like a firearm though with practice they can become as accurate or more so than a rimfire.

I will try better hold consistency.

[BrushPopper]

I bought one of the Crosman short-stroke nitro piston guns, years back, when they first came out.

Problems with mine included:

1) Looseness at barrel pivot (side to side play)

2) Bad barrel; threads for the shroud were cut too deep and extended into the bore, which mangled the pells right before exit.

3) rough on scopes. The included Centerpoint couldn’t take it.

Solutions: shims @ the pivot, barrel-chop, ditched the shroud, installed irons, and fire-lapped the bore... now I had a shooter!

Lotta work to make a stock-gun, from a respected manufacturer behave. In ur case, You might start with a crown polish and some barrel lapping.

Slug the barrel, push some tight fitting  pells through, feeling for tight/rough spots and examine pells for clean rifling marks.

I’ve found that when all else is right, culprit is usually a crummy bore

[Duckfish]

Take your licks on this one, sell it with all the mentioned disclosures and issues.  Someone who works on theses will buy it.  .......then.......... Buy a differant gun.

You need to decide how you are going to use it.  Will it be for target shooting and all day fun plinking?  Will it be a hunter?  If it's going to hunt, then what is your proposed prey?  Will you be shooting in serious target competition?  If so which competition?
Lastly do you have to have a new gun?  There are some very good used guns that come up for sale that can be bought at a good price.

Answer these questions and many folks here can offer suggestions.   Just my two cents.

[Bryan Heimann]

You picked a frustrating rifle, for sure.  We've all been there.  The marketing not worthy you right in- that is why the companies spend so much on it. 

Even when it is running right, those guns can leave you feeling frustrated.  One day you can keep every shot inside 2-3" circle at 75-80 yards and the next day you can't do it at 30 yards.

There is a reason you don't see anybody winning HFT with a 19.9 fpe springer.  They are too hard to shoot consistently!

My best recommendation- get a milder shooting rifle with a better trigger.  I know that's not what you want to hear after investing so much. But if you like to hit stuff then that is the best way to go.

[BritishDriver]

You picked a frustrating rifle, for sure.  We've all been there.  The marketing not worthy you right in- that is why the companies spend so much on it. 

Even when it is running right, those guns can leave you feeling frustrated.  One day you can keep every shot inside 2-3" circle at 75-80 yards and the next day you can't do it at 30 yards.

There is a reason you don't see anybody winning HFT with a 19.9 fpe springer.  They are too hard to shoot consistently!

My best recommendation- get a milder shooting rifle with a better trigger.  I know that's not what you want to hear after investing so much. But if you like to hit stuff then that is the best way to go.

LOL

[BritishDriver]

My best recommendation- get a milder shooting rifle with a better trigger.  I know that's not what you want to hear after investing so much. But if you like to hit stuff then that is the best way to go.

This is what made me laugh out loud.  If I like to hit stuff... Of course I do!

[Bryan Heimann]

Hey that trail could be a great looking gun on the wall and has the power to dispatch any kindo f backyard pest you'll see- only accurate enough out to ten or 15 yards though.  Not necessarily because the gun itself isn't inherently accurate, but because you have to be 100 percent on your A-game to get it to shoot well, and honestly I don't think it's humanly possible to bring it like that every time with a gun like the Trail.  And that is IF it is running right, they are notorious for issues with piston seal, trigger, and lockup.  Search the forum and the archives, you'll see almost every member that has used a trail has gone through it.

[BritishDriver]

Take your licks on this one, sell it with all the mentioned disclosures and issues.  Someone who works on theses will buy it.  .......then.......... Buy a differant gun.

You need to decide how you are going to use it.  Will it be for target shooting and all day fun plinking?  Will it be a hunter?  If it's going to hunt, then what is your proposed prey?  Will you be shooting in serious target competition?  If so which competition?
Lastly do you have to have a new gun?  There are some very good used guns that come up for sale that can be bought at a good price.

Answer these questions and many folks here can offer suggestions.   Just my two cents.

I want to use it for plinking and game between 35 and 50 yards.  The game Crow, Rabbit and Groundhog (Groundhog, less than 20 yards).

[Bryan Heimann]

Sounds like a job for the rws 34.  Grab a 34p in .177, that will cover it and fairly cheaply, but still a quality gun.

[A.K.A. Tommy Boy]

Hi Joseph:

This is a picture of my Benjamin Trail NP XL 1100.     I use mine primarily for Fall and Winter hunting at ranges from 10 yards out to a 55 yard maximum limit.  Most of my hunting shots are taken at 20 to 30 yards.

I really LIKE mine and it is one of my favorite rifles...but I Defiantly Would NOT recommend a gun like this to anyone... especially as a first break barrel rifle.

This gun requires a high degree of concentration and perfect break barrel shooting skills in-order to be accurate with it.  There is absolutely  No forgiveness with this one.   With this gun you either get everything right or you miss your target.

It doesn't sound as if you know, for sure, whether you even like break barrels yet.  Is that true sir ?



Best Wishes - Tom

[Roadworthy]

Rereading the initial post, expectations may not be realistic for 35 to 50 yard use.  It kind of depends on how accuracy is defined.  Fifty yards is kind of the extreme limit for expectations of airgun accuracy.  Even the most minor breeze can throw things off even if the shooter is highly experienced.  Consider seriously doing most of your plinking at twenty to thirty yards for best results.  Longer shots should be off a bench and take extreme concentration.  It can be done with practice - LOTS of practice.

[BritishDriver]

Hi Joseph:

This is a picture of my Benjamin Trail NP XL 1100.     I use mine primarily for Fall and Winter hunting at ranges from 10 yards out to a 55 yard maximum limit.  Most of my hunting shots are taken at 20 to 30 yards.

I really LIKE mine and it is one of my favorite rifles...but I Defiantly Would NOT recommend a gun like this to anyone... especially as a first break barrel rifle.

This gun requires a high degree of concentration and perfect break barrel shooting skills in-order to be accurate with it.  There is absolutely  No forgiveness with this one.   With this gun you either get everything right or you miss your target.

It doesn't sound as if you know, for sure, whether you even like break barrels yet.  Is that true sir ?



Best Wishes - Tom

I want to like break barrels.  I will drop back and practice my hold and see if it gets any better.

[A.K.A. Tommy Boy]

Joseph

Have you checked the crown of your barrel for any damage or dings ?



Best Wishes - Tom

[BritishDriver]

Joseph

Have you checked the crown of your barrel for any damage or dings ?



Best Wishes - Tom

I have not checked the crown of the barrel.  I would have to remove the barrel shroud to do that properly, correct?

[A.K.A. Tommy Boy]

Joseph

Have you checked the crown of your barrel for any damage or dings ?



Best Wishes - Tom

I have not checked the crown of the barrel.  I would have to remove the barrel shroud to do that properly, correct?

Yes that is correct..  Do a visual check to see if there are any machining errors then run a Q-tip around in the crown and see if it snags anywhere.  If the crown is ok then try shooting your rifle without the shroud on it and see if things improve.  If you notice in my picture of my rifle the shroud has been removed and the barrel is wrapped with self adhesive camo barrel wrap.

Best Wishes - Tom

[A.K.A. Tommy Boy]

Joseph

There is a TUNED 22 cal RWS 54 Air King for sale in the GTA Classifieds for only $550.  That is less than the price of a new untuned gun.

Here is the link:  > https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=158415.0

You could buy that one and it would be a Great gun for what you want to do....and you will avoid all the hassles that your are going to go thru with your Benjamn.  The RWS is one of the most accurate guns made and there is a GTA member in the Hunting gate (The Egyptian Sniper)  that is making some remarkable long range shots with one.  I would recommend buying the 54 Air King and then sell the Benjamin and recoup some of your costs.   
No mater what you do to the Benjamin it will Never Ever have the Quality or be as Accurate as an RWS 54. 
The RWS has plenty of power too !

Just a Thought, sir


On the other hand you can continue with the Benjamin and it can be made to shoot better but be advised... You Will Be On A Long Journey. 
I personally enjoy the challenge that my Benjamin has been and continues to be. 
There is a lot of satisfaction in mastering the accuracy problems with a rifle a like the Benjamin Trail NP XL 1100. 
Mastering the Benjamin NP XL 1100...... is an accomplishment that few have done.


Either way... I wish you good luck sir.  The weight of the 54 and the Benjamin with a scope mounted on them, will be about the same.


Joseph Here is a list of the modifications that have been done to my Benjamin Trail NP XL 1100

My Tuned Magnum Gas Ram Break Barrel 22cal Benjamin Trail NP XL Magnum 1100 Rifle and modifications as follows.   

A CDT GRT III Trigger has been added to this gun as well as Bronze Oil Impregnated Pivot Washers.  The after market Gas Ram has been ramped up to maximum allowable nitrogen pressure.   I added a Diana Bullseye ZR Scope Mount and a Hammers 3-9x32 AO Mill Dot Scope.  The stock Crosman/Benjamin piston seal has been replaced with the Walther Falcon seal and lubed with moly after honing the cylinder on a sunnen honing machine.   The Shroud and related hardware has been removed and the barrel has been polished and re-crowned. All screws have been loc-tighted and the stock has been semi-bedded.

The Rifle Shoots Excellent... but...it Still requires Good Form to be accurate with it. 
If I Do My Part......the gun is very accurate and is a heavy hitter at longer ranges.
The rifle weighs about 11 Lbs with the scope mounted on it and the cocking force is around 50 Lbs. or more.
Again.....it is one of my favorite hunting rifles.



Best Wishes - Tom


Note :  Joseph...should you decide to sell your Benjamin....there will always be someone like me..that want's to buy it and Knows what they are getting into ..beforehand. 

Here is a list of the guns that I hunt with and you can see what I LIKE. The Hatsan 125 break barrel is very similar to the Benjamin but it has a Spring Driven Piston and is 25 caliber.  Both guns are about the same weight and cocking force. They require about the same type of break barrel shooting skills too and require a high degree of concentration to shoot well.


.My Primary Hunting Guns
.25cal Hatsan 125 Magnum with a Camo Thumbhole Stock & Spring Piston (HATSAN'S MOST POWERFUL BREAK BARREL RIFLE IN 25 CAL.)
.25cal Hatsan Edge Vortex.  (Good Snap-Shooter on Winter or Windy Days)
.22cal Benjamin Trail NP XL 1100 Magnum W/CDT GRT III Trigger (*A POWERFUL BREAK BARREL RIFLE & MY BEST "RESTED-SHOT" HUNTER*)
.22cal Crosman Summit Ranger NP2 (***MY BEST ALL-ROUND HUNTER & WINTER GUN***)
.20cal Vintage 1979 Sheridan Silver Streak  (NicelyResealed&Rebuilt By Rob112o)(*My MOST ACCURATE HUNTER & SNAP SHOOTER*)
.117cal Hatsan 85 Sniper Spring Piston W/Camo Stock & Extra 25 Cal Sniper Barrel (Good Winter & Windy Day Gun)
.117cal Hatsan Striker Vortex W/Edge Stock (*EXCELLENT SNAP SHOOTER & GOOD WINTER GUN*)
.117cal Crosman Vantage NP1 W/Titan Stock (My Old Trusty Standby Rifle)
.117cal Crosman 2100 (My Lightest Weight Hunter)
Occasional Hunters
.117cal Custom Older X-3 Stoeger W/B-3 Spring Piston (NicelyRefinished&Rebuilt By SteveP-52)
.117cal Chinese B-3 Spring Piston Under Lever (My Mean Mongrel Junkyard Dog)
.117cal 2 Crosman 1377 Pistols (Mouse Zappers)
.117cal Umarex NXG APX (Chipmunk Hunter)
.117cal Red Ridder BB Gun (Pop Can Hunter)
.012cal (3mm) Bug-A-Salt 2.0 (Black Fly,Deer Fly & Mosquito Hunter)

[A.K.A. Tommy Boy]

Joseph :

The RWS 54 new ..lists for around $600 and the tune by John at PA was $200.  The Vortex Diamondback scope that you now have on your Benjamin would be the best choice on this gun and you could sell the Hawk scope that comes with the RWS 54. This gun should shoot 50 yards accurately with out much trouble and have the power to hunt with it at that range. No hassles or modifications..just switch guns.

You could have an excellent $1,000 Tuned Gun & Scope Combination all set up for you for $550.     Something to consider sir.   

If you sold your Benjamin and the Hawk scope you could recover quite a bit of what you have already spent.

If you continue with your Benjamin you will be spending about the same amount of money...Or More.. to do the things that I did in-order to get it to be where you want it to be...and  It Still Will Never Ever Equal the RWS 54.

I truly enjoyed the challenge with my Benjamin and... would do it again...but what I did ...is not for everyone.

Most folks just want an accurate powerful rifle right out of the box that they can take out and shoot.

When I got my Benjamin I did not pay full price for it.  I got it thru the GTA Classifieds as a trade.  It was a gun that the owner had given up on because of all the problems he was having.  I traded him a spotting scope for it so there was no actual money involved with the acquisition of my gun.  I knew Exactly what I was getting into and felt up to the task of improving it and working out all of the problems.
My gun is great now but it did not start out that way. 

For me sir.. it was all about the journey and the sense of accomplishment I got in achieving what few have been able to do.

Here is a Hunting post link, on a long shot that I made with my Benjamin Trail NP XL 1100.  It was a nighttime  55 yard shot that was dead center to the chest.  It shows what the gun...can be capable of....provided the owner puts the time, money and work into it.

> https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=142805.msg1445649#msg1445649
.




Best Wishes - Tom

[Arch_E]

Tom has given you some great ideas. He really helped me get into air rifles when I first started. 


I'll add some echo to his direction:
First, I have no clue of what caliber you need to kill groundhogs; but birds and squirrels drop to .177 quite easily when the shot is well placed. So, I'd guess that you might really need the .22 for your level of pesting.

Second, heavy guns require much more strength to handle when shooting off-hand; can you handle a 10+ lbs gun + scope. If not, then start looking for a 7.5-8.5 lb scoped rifle.

Third, when I started killing the squirrels (eating my new porch wood and then the soffits on the house), I had nearly a dozen chances every day to shoot multiple times at playful, lazy squirrels that ignored my presence: those days are gone. I see squirrels in my "kill zone (aka fenced in backyard)" now maybe 3 per week (BTW, I've killed 3/5 I've seen this week). Even worse, my shots have moved from shorter (5-10 yds) to 15-30 yards. So, the distance that your gun will shoot accurately may really matter once you get to killing the pests.

Fourth, your skill level in addressing the tuning needs of a gun SIGNIFICANTLY matter. If you're so gifted, then you're golden. There's all kinds of videos or people here who can talk you through all sorts of upgrades, tunes, mods, etc. If that's not you, then buying a better quality of air rifle is probably the better path (but remember, even quality guns need tuning and maintenance). Which better gun you buy is really up to your tastes and budget. For every three posters, there should be about a dozen opinions about what's the best.

Fifth, the shorter the distances you need to shoot genuinely influence the gun you need. If under 30 yards, many "non-magnum" air rifles will suffice, including CO2, PCP, Break barrel, Under or side lever, etc. I've got a break barrel that allows me to place a head shot on squirrel at 25-30 yds (that's as far as I can shoot in my "kill zone." My underlever delivers the same precision but only when I use a rest (it's heavy). My Crosman and Gamo will sometimes deliver such accuracy but not nearly as reliably as my more costly rifles. With that said, I overbought; since, both of my better guns can reliably shoot 45-70 yds (which is well beyond my ability).

Sixth, the artillery hand hold is critical to all the guns that I shoot. Learn what that is and start looking for THE point of placement that your gun demands. There's lots of good videos on this.

Seventh, the ammo you shoot is critical, as well. Since I'm a .177 shooter, I can offer no advice for .22--other than to say that the more costly pellets typically do offer me better performance. Stating it differently: I put 10 shots in dime with one of my better rifles then struggled to get those same 10 in a fat quarter with my Crosman (all at 13 yds). With a CPHP 7.9, my more costly guns shoot them perfectly, while my Crosman refuses to like that grain size: it likes 8.3-8.64 (and is deadly accurate out to 26 yds with its favorite RWS domed 8.3 pellet).

Eighth, there's a lot of fun in owning more than one gun (guess I'd have to say that now that I own four air rifles and one pellet pistol); but I struggle to keep active in shooting all of them. So I recommend something different that what I've done thus far. Pick a gun that is great at a particular task, e.g., for short shots, use either a pumper pistol or CO2 (Tom and others kill pests out to 15-20 yds with powerful pistols (~600 FPS)); for medium shots, get any lower powered spring or gas shooter that delivers 700-1000 FPS (all .177 for my stats): this might be CO2 but it definitely includes break barrels, under/side levers, and lower powered PCPS; for longer ranged shots, well I'm a total newb in that area--so, like me you can read and drool about 160+ yard kill shots on birds, groundhogs, squirrels, etc. by others here who are shooting such incredibly powerful PCPS. What I also read is this, the PCP folks are typically bored with the short/med range shots that I make all the time.

Ninth, PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE!!!!!!! Start at 10 yards and stay there until you can obtain your desired groupings. When I started this six months ago, I couldn't place 60% of my shots in a quarter. Now I have a page of small circles (smaller than a dime) that allows me to practice precision (at 13 yds). I also have a re-settable target at 26 yds to practice at hitting a 1.5" circle. Until you know what you can do AND what your gun(s) can do, perhaps it's too soon to abandon your first purchase. However, my first purchase and I went through exactly the same thing! Six months later, my Gamo is now a smoking-hot accurate gun (off of a rest). It wasn't when I started. I embrace the counsel provided here by others--we must shoot several tins of practice shots through our guns before we really know what they can do.

Lastly, have fun (even when it's frustrating) and be safe. These air rifles are deadly!

Archie