PCP options for mounting scope very close to barrel

[jp_over]

Friends,

I'm looking to set up my next airgun with the scope mounted as close to the barrel as possible.  Mainly, I'm looking for PCPs which have a very low weaver or Picatinny base relative to the barrel.  For example, the Kalibrgun Cricket Mini carbine:

Any other suggestions for PCPs set up like this?  I'll figure out the scope and rings separately, right now I'm just trying to get a good "start".

Thanks!

[fwbsport]

Use a smaller objective like I do to mount a scope close.  I have Nikon 1.5-4.5X 20mm, 2-7X 32mm, Burris Compact 4-12X 32mm.  Whether you use a lower power scope (or Compact like Burris) the scope fits LOW on any gun. 
The scopes on the FWB, R9, and 97K fit nicely!  Also, don't get hung up on magnification which increases the size of the objective.

[jp_over]

Use a smaller objective like I do to mount a scope close.  I have Nikon 1.5-4.5X 20mm, 2-7X 32mm, Burris Compact 4-12X 32mm.  Whether you use a lower power scope (or Compact like Burris) the scope fits LOW on any gun. 
The scopes on the FWB, R9, and 97K fit nicely!  Also, don't get hung up on magnification which increases the size of the objective.

That's a good suggestion, and I appreciate the R9 reference.  I had a beautiful Paul Watts tuned HW97 with a Leupold 3-9x33 EFR & Burris Signature rings.  What a combination & super low mount (pic attached)! 

However, for this build I'm specifically looking for a PCP so the R9 and other great offerings are currently not on the table.

[SpeedyBB]

Any gun which does not have a magazine that is higher than the scope mount should allow you to use low rings. It's not picatinny but the Urban would work if you're on a budget. Dovetail holds rock steady on pcps. I don't see the shroud getting in the way much, it seems like it would but if my own personal experience tells me anything it's that it will hardly be an issue at all.

I've learned to live with medium rings. It's not too hard to learn holdover with mil-dots if you only use magnification in multiples.
Say you have medium or high rings with a 3x9 scope and the gun is zeroed at 25 yards. If you only use magnifications 3x, 6x, and 9x it makes life easier. You test that at 10 yards you need one mil holdover on 3x, so at 6x it's two mil, 9x it's 3 mil. Then let's say 15 yards it's .5 mil on 3x, so 1 mil on 6x, and 1.5 mil on 9x. I do the same thing now with 4x16 by using 4x, 8x, 12x, and 16x. I just normally use the lowest magnification possible within 15 yards anyway. It's at crazy close ranges within 10 yards that things get out of hand, the difference between 5 yards and 8 yards can be pretty extreme. This is when the lowest possible scope will make the biggest difference. I'm considering mounting a red dot on top of my scope and giving it a zero of like 5-7 yards. Might even consider canting it to the bottom left. Anyone try this?

[jp_over]

Any gun which does not have a magazine that is higher than the scope mount should allow you to use low rings. It's not picatinny but the Urban would work if you're on a budget. Dovetail holds rock steady on pcps. I don't see the shroud getting in the way much, it seems like it would but if my own personal experience tells me anything it's that it will hardly be an issue at all.

I've learned to live with medium rings. It's not too hard to learn holdover with mil-dots if you only use magnification in multiples.
Say you have medium or high rings with a 3x9 scope and the gun is zeroed at 25 yards. If you only use magnifications 3x, 6x, and 9x it makes life easier. You test that at 10 yards you need one mil holdover on 3x, so at 6x it's two mil, 9x it's 3 mil. Then let's say 15 yards it's .5 mil on 3x, so 1 mil on 6x, and 1.5 mil on 9x. I do the same thing now with 4x16 by using 4x, 8x, 12x, and 16x. I just normally use the lowest magnification possible within 15 yards anyway. It's at crazy close ranges within 10 yards that things get out of hand, the difference between 5 yards and 8 yards can be pretty extreme. This is when the lowest possible scope will make the biggest difference. I'm considering mounting a red dot on top of my scope and giving it a zero of like 5-7 yards. Might even consider canting it to the bottom left. Anyone try this?

Thanks for the good suggestions Ethan.  I'm going to make a couple of range cards and try to start using my mil-dots a bit. 

[Nomadic Pirate]

Most Eastern European guns chamber the pellet from the top of the magazine compared to the majority of PCPs that chamber from the bottom, that alone will give you a chance to get the scope closer to the actual bore.

[Ribbonstone]

Over all,with most bull pups are pretty straight stock and high cheek...which pretty much requires a high scope mount in order for your face to get in line with the scoper immage, might be fighting a losing battle for low scope mounting with that stock formation.

Doersdepend on your face....I've a pretty narrow facfe and this is about as low as I can mount a scopeon a typical bullpup (which is more like 2.40-2.45" over bore line.More comforatable is a slightly higher mount (more like 2.6" over bore line).

DSCN1880 by Robert Dean, on Flickr

DSCN1886 by Robert Dean, on Flickr

As y0ou can see, if I'm, going to end up that high off the bore-line, may as well use the "extra"spce betyween scope and barrel for a big-azzz objective.



Thn again,may not want to.High scope moutning doesfavore long range zero/drop.  Low scope mounting favores shorter range zero.drop.  Basically if you start at the muzzle with the scope center 2.8"over the bore line,it's kind of an advanatge at 30-80 yards in hold over (but not worthy at 10-25 yards).If you start with the scope line 1.4"over bore center,it actually helpsatshorter range,but not worthy for hold over at long range




But if the mounting system is pretty low to the bore (Picc. rail or grooves)and the stock has some drop to it, then a small objective scope and "lo"mounts/rings can usually snuggle it doen pretty low (1.5"of lower).

It'san airgun...it's not like the "pivot point"is really going to have to deal with any real recoil(which can really beat the snot out of youeith a big-bore center fire).

So pick your poision....let the power/energy/accuracy of the air gun decide which you really need.NO good reason to set up a 10-12foot pound airgun for 40-80yard shootingwith a really lowmounted scope....and no good reason to set up a 50 foot pound rifle for 15-30 yard shootingwith a really high mounted scope.

[Mole2017]

Hmmm, you have given me an idea to pursue, Ribbonstone. I was just looking again at some work I did years ago at a trajectory calculator (simulation actually) and that was exactly the question that started it: flat shooting. (Though the thread that started that question turned out to be about "flat" FPS vs shot number, not trajectory.)

I guess I could use the calculators already available, but I do want to create the data in a different format than most give it to me.

As for the scope question, I went into the PCP quest with an aversion to high mounted scopes. I guess for bull pups you have to do it, like you described, but for rifles it didn't make sense to me. Now I see there might be a reason to do it. In my case, I quickly saw the Gamo PCPs as an option--repeaters with continuous scope rails--and then managed to get a used BSA that met the requirements. For me, I've got my zero pretty far out and the result is everything from about 20 to 35 or 40 yards is just slightly under the cross hair (like 1/4 mildot or less at 9x?). At 45 or 55 yards it is around 1/2 mildot.

Here's what my rig looks like (3x9x42 or 44 scope):

[Mole2017]

Hmmm, you have given me an idea to pursue, Ribbonstone. I was just looking again at some work I did years ago at a trajectory calculator (simulation actually) and that was exactly the question that started it: flat shooting. (Though the thread that started that question turned out to be about "flat" FPS vs shot number, not trajectory.)

I guess I could use the calculators already available, but I do want to create the data in a different format than most give it to me.

As for the scope question, I went into the PCP quest with an aversion to high mounted scopes. I guess for bull pups you have to do it, like you described, but for rifles it didn't make sense to me. Now I see there might be a reason to do it. In my case, I quickly saw the Gamo PCPs as an option--repeaters with continuous scope rails--and then managed to get a used BSA that met the requirements. For me, I've got my zero pretty far out and the result is everything from about 20 to 35 or 40 yards is just slightly under the cross hair (like 1/4 mildot or less at 9x?). At 45 or 55 yards it is around 1/2 mildot.

Here's what my rig looks like (3x9x42 or 44 scope, the gap between the scope bell and the shroud is about 1/4"):

[Mole2017]

oops. I forgot you can only edit a post on a thread you start...I added a little about the scope.

[jp_over]

Thanks for all the input - I'll give your ideas some further thought.

[Hobbyman2007]

I’d have a real close look at the HW100 , no magazine sticking out the top of the breech . It comes in a few different stock options as well .

[jp_over]

I’d have a real close look at the HW100 , no magazine sticking out the top of the breech . It comes in a few different stock options as well .

That looks promising; haven't checked them out in a while and will do so later today.