Has Anyone Tuned the Hatsan Flash to be more Efficient?

[SpiralGroove]

Hey Guys,
I was thinking of buying another PCP and the Hatsan Flash (Wood version) coming out soon has tweaked my curiosity .  Hard to believe - a light weight Hatsan .
 
Has anyone tuned this gun in either .177, .22 or .25 caliber to make it more efficient? 
It's likely ported to .25 caliber out-of-the-box.

Because it has a 165cc tank, it should be able to get 30/40 good shots in .177 or .22.
I'm assuming the gun comes with the usual, Air Hog - Hatsan valve?. 
Has anyone put a Huma regulator in the gun to improve consistency?

Any help is appreciated

[Jpullen]

I'm looking to do the same thing with my .22 flash, but I haven't found much info on it beyond adding a regulator. Did you ever dive into this project?

[Rohmpm]

I've only seen people tune up the power, easy to do.

[makoda]

I turned mine down to just over 800 FPS with ftt 14 grain pellets.  It shoots 3 mags really well and then I fill back up.  Just turned down the hammer spring almost all the way.  Lower fill pressure too which makes it easy to pump.

[Jpullen]

My hammer spring from factory was set to one turn out. I got 24 shots shots from 2900 to 1500 psi before shot groups open up a bit. I went to 4 turns out and it has significantly more power, but I'm waiting on another tin of jsb jumbo heavy 18.13gr to check accuracy. It still gives me roughly 20 shots for the same air consumption. Chronograph should arrive this week also.

[rdtricks]

Airgunners Edge on youtube has done several videos on various aspects of tuning and making upgrades to the Hatsan Flash and Flashpup.  He is an interesting character to follow and really likes his airguns.  Another youtuber is Brothers in Air that shows work to the Flashpup.  I don't believe there is a significant difference between the working parts of the Flash and Flashpup. 

I am waiting on my Flash .25 to arrive this coming weekend.  The plan is to follow some of suggestions presented by both fellas with the hope of making the rifle a bit more consistent.   

[Jpullen]

Thanks for the info rdtricks. I will check out brothers in air. I watched part two and three of Air gunners edge porting video, but couldn't find part one. The two I watched had good information I just wasn't sure that the pup and the carbine were set up the same inside. This is my first pcp and once I start working on mine I will start a thread.

[cosmic]

They are the same gun just different stocks..

[Ribbonstone]

The pup version isn't mechanically different, just stumpy stocked.  Can manage 30-33 good shots per fill in .22, but they'll be more like 27-28 foot pounds (lets say 18gr. at something around 850fps).  Just testing,adjusting, trying to eventually get the bell curve to be just about as even on the up-slope and it is on the down-slope.

DSCN2070 by Robert Dean, on Flickr

No mods/no new parts...just a lot of adjusting...testing...adjusting...etc.

[dcmeyer]

Airgunners Edge also did a HUMA regulator I believe. I have a .25 but my goal all along was full power over 20 shots.

As far as efficiency out of the box it just depends on where the hammer spring is set, they are not consistent from gun to gun. Before I drilled the transfer port I was able to tune if for 24 shots averaging 850fps so I imagine you could tune it down a bit from there and get more, .177 and .22 should do better than that.

Now I'm getting 20 shots at 45fpe (JSB Kings) and it will shoot another 8-10 shots before POI starts to drop. Mine loves anything JSB.

I happy with it but they could definitely use some QC on the assembly. After seeing how they treat o-rings I'm very surprised mine never leaked, some looked like they were chewed on by rats. 

[Jpullen]

I guess I just need to start by gathering chronograph data and adjusting hammer spring, when the chrono comes in. I appreciate all the input. First I have to figure out where my gushing air leak came from. I went out and shot a magazine (12shots) today and when it got to 150 bar it started audibly blowing air out of the valve. Took the air cylinder off when it was just before 0 bar and it was blowing out the port. Removed the nylon seat with the o-ring and they both had heavy groves in them. Replaced both as I gouged the nylon seat removing it. Reassembled it and it continues to leak. I disassembled it and put it back together two more times before it sealed properly. I will have nightmares about that hand pump tonight.

[dcmeyer]

I will have nightmares about that hand pump tonight.

LOL. Many say hand pumping is not that bad and maybe in a hunting situation it's ok but if you want to shoot targets and get some shots down range there is a bit of time spent getting your heart rate back to normal just to run a couple of mags and then do it all over again. I got a used SCBA tank on ebay and haven't looked back. If I was still in my 20's no problem but add 30 years to that and It's not so much fun. I have a cheap pump but it works good, still 100 strokes to get to full from 150 bar.

[Ribbonstone]

If you've one PCP, then you have to choose power or shot count...can boost either quite a bit.

If you've got two PCP's (or more) pick the ones for power and some of the others for shot count mods.

I know when I'm going out hunting and likely to need 10-20 good powerful shots....and know when I'm going out playing and would prefer 35-45

I really hope no one every makes a real "all around"rifle....would have no excuse to own.


Still find the flash to be decently hand-pump friendly.Even with a compressor, I seldom bother to set it up just to fill the Flash.

[mcoulter]

I have not done any extensive tuning - just tweaking the hammer spring for different pellet weights - but this is what I got:

Pellet = .177 JSB Monsters 13.4 grain (original)
Shots taken = 30
Fill = 195 bar shot down to to 150 bar
High = 894
Low 865
Average = 883 (23.3 fpe)
ES = 29
SD = 9

My chicken scratch.  The above data was the central part of my notes.  (I will try to transcribe this into a spreadsheet before too long.)  The left-top section was a 40-shot string with the redesigned JSB Monsters and a 200-ish bar fill.  As you can see, the initial shots were a bit slow.

Pellet = .177 JSB Monsters 13.4 grain (redesigned)
Shots taken = 40
Fill = 200 bar shot down to to 145 bar
High = 878
Low 819
Average = 859 (22 fpe)
ES = 59
SD = 15

[Jpullen]

Ok first set of shots done today after ordering new o-rings for the rifle and hand pump. 2.5 turns out was most accurate first shot was a low flyer then 11 rounds touching. Second clip first 11 shots touching then last shot was another low flyer. 2 turns out had the similar 4.5 inch group but they were not touching and no flyers. If the wind and work allow I will try 3 turns out and 1.5 this weekend.

Description: 2.5 turns jsb jumbo heavy 18.13 (200- 145bar)
#     FPS        FT-LBS     PF
24    844        0.00       0.00     
23    844        0.00       0.00     
22    854        0.00       0.00     
21    861        0.00       0.00     
20    867        0.00       0.00     
19    875        0.00       0.00     
18    886        0.00       0.00     
17    887        0.00       0.00     
16    891        0.00       0.00     
15    899        0.00       0.00     
14    904        0.00       0.00     
13    911        0.00       0.00     
12    911        0.00       0.00     
11    913        0.00       0.00     
10    920        0.00       0.00     
9     929        0.00       0.00     
8     927        0.00       0.00     
7     932        0.00       0.00     
6     933        0.00       0.00     
5     939        0.00       0.00     
4     941        0.00       0.00     
3     943        0.00       0.00     
2     947        0.00       0.00     
1     945        0.00       0.00     
Average: 904.29
StdDev: 33.25
Min: 844
Max: 947
Spread: 103
True MV: 904.29
Shots/sec: 0.06
Group Size (IN): 4.00

Description: 2 turns out jsb jumbo heavy 18.13  out(200-148)
#     FPS        FT-LBS     PF
24    835        0.00       0.00     
23    847        0.00       0.00     
22    849        0.00       0.00     
21    855        0.00       0.00     
20    861        0.00       0.00     
19    867        0.00       0.00     
18    872        0.00       0.00     
17    884        0.00       0.00     
16    882        0.00       0.00     
15    882        0.00       0.00     
14    894        0.00       0.00     
13    900        0.00       0.00     
12    904        0.00       0.00     
11    911        0.00       0.00     
10    906        0.00       0.00     
9     912        0.00       0.00     
8     920        0.00       0.00     
7     923        0.00       0.00     
6     928        0.00       0.00     
5     923        0.00       0.00     
4     930        0.00       0.00     
3     935        0.00       0.00     
2     933        0.00       0.00     
1     939        0.00       0.00     
Average: 895.50
StdDev: 31.49
Min: 835
Max: 939
Spread: 104
True MV: 895.50
Shots/sec: 0.11
Group Size (IN): 4.5

[travelbike]

Purchased one of those refurbed Flash.25.  Loosened hammer spring to the max.  I only fill it to about 1800 psi and would refill it again when it reaches 1500 psi.  Can get about 8 good shots with it at about 30fpe.  At 50 yards,  you can hit a target the size of your clenched fist with high certainty.  When I want to plink a lot, I just tether a regulated 1800 psi 48CI tank to it.  I modified my fill port so I have a regular foster fitting on it. Very happy with this Flash bargain.

[Ribbonstone]

Good power over shot count....but your "up slope" to the peak/plateau is the non-existant type of short.


But an unbalanced non-regulated PCP.

IN each strng,are starting out as fast as it will go, and pretty much ever decreacing in speed/energy.  Does meake for the fasterst/most energy...but if you count the faster to the 4% slowest shots....thewn why not count the 4% sloest to the peak velocity/energy...and backdown to thr 4% slowest from peak?

Basically,are taking maxi-energy over about 2X thew shot count at lower ewne

IN example #1,call it  12  shots inside 4%...with a lot more "downslope"than "up slope".  Starts at 945-947 and just falls off in velocity from there.

IN string #2,call it 12 shotsinside 4% ..same kind of typ heavy shot curve....starts off at 939fpsand falls straignt off from there.

IN a bell curve type graph,it'sstarting at the plateau and just falling off from there.


Which is great if you limit yourself to 10-12 shots per fill.


But there is likely 2-2.5X the number of good  shots if you back the striker tension DOWn to something more like  a start at 894fps...rise to 930..and a fall back down to 890fps...which would average something like 905-910fps.

[Rallyshark]

Ok first set of shots done today after ordering new o-rings for the rifle and hand pump. 2.5 turns out was most accurate first shot was a low flyer then 11 rounds touching. Second clip first 11 shots touching then last shot was another low flyer. 2 turns out had the similar 4.5 inch group but they were not touching and no flyers. If the wind and work allow I will try 3 turns out and 1.5 this weekend.

Description: 2.5 turns jsb jumbo heavy 18.13 (200- 145bar)
#     FPS        FT-LBS     PF
24    844        0.00       0.00     
23    844        0.00       0.00     
22    854        0.00       0.00     
21    861        0.00       0.00     
20    867        0.00       0.00     
19    875        0.00       0.00     
18    886        0.00       0.00     
17    887        0.00       0.00     
16    891        0.00       0.00     
15    899        0.00       0.00     
14    904        0.00       0.00     
13    911        0.00       0.00     
12    911        0.00       0.00     
11    913        0.00       0.00     
10    920        0.00       0.00     
9     929        0.00       0.00     
8     927        0.00       0.00     
7     932        0.00       0.00     
6     933        0.00       0.00     
5     939        0.00       0.00     
4     941        0.00       0.00     
3     943        0.00       0.00     
2     947        0.00       0.00     
1     945        0.00       0.00     
Average: 904.29
StdDev: 33.25
Min: 844
Max: 947
Spread: 103
True MV: 904.29
Shots/sec: 0.06
Group Size (IN): 4.00

Description: 2 turns out jsb jumbo heavy 18.13  out(200-148)
#     FPS        FT-LBS     PF
24    835        0.00       0.00     
23    847        0.00       0.00     
22    849        0.00       0.00     
21    855        0.00       0.00     
20    861        0.00       0.00     
19    867        0.00       0.00     
18    872        0.00       0.00     
17    884        0.00       0.00     
16    882        0.00       0.00     
15    882        0.00       0.00     
14    894        0.00       0.00     
13    900        0.00       0.00     
12    904        0.00       0.00     
11    911        0.00       0.00     
10    906        0.00       0.00     
9     912        0.00       0.00     
8     920        0.00       0.00     
7     923        0.00       0.00     
6     928        0.00       0.00     
5     923        0.00       0.00     
4     930        0.00       0.00     
3     935        0.00       0.00     
2     933        0.00       0.00     
1     939        0.00       0.00     
Average: 895.50
StdDev: 31.49
Min: 835
Max: 939
Spread: 104
True MV: 895.50
Shots/sec: 0.11
Group Size (IN): 4.5

Too much hammer strike going on there for sure, unless you just have to have it shooting that hot for your intended use.  I would turn that screw back in at least a turn and see where it is shooting  

[Rallyshark]

Hey Guys,
I was thinking of buying another PCP and the Hatsan Flash (Wood version) coming out soon has tweaked my curiosity .  Hard to believe - a light weight Hatsan .
 
Has anyone tuned this gun in either .177, .22 or .25 caliber to make it more efficient? 
It's likely ported to .25 caliber out-of-the-box.

Because it has a 165cc tank, it should be able to get 30/40 good shots in .177 or .22.
I'm assuming the gun comes with the usual, Air Hog - Hatsan valve?. 
Has anyone put a Huma regulator in the gun to improve consistency?

Any help is appreciated

I did a thread on the power side of things mostly a while back, but since you asked about efficiency...  They are actually are pretty efficient all things considered.  You can definitely improve upon that though.  They are actually not ported for .25.  They tend to be somewhere in the middle for the average power level.  I opened up the valve seat/barrel port on both of mine.  I opened up the transfer in the .22 as well.
A regulator helps as long as you aren't going for too much power.  I tend to mod all my guns for power, then tune them down. 

In .22 I think I was able to get 36 shots in the 30fpe range regulated.  In .177 I was able to get 56 shots in the 18-19 fpe range regulated.  I think they are awesomely simple guns, that just work usually.  They are very light weight, which makes them great hunters.  I was also able to get my .22 to do 24 shots at 41 fpe unregulated with the 33.95 JSBs.  So yeah, they can be tuned to do pretty much whatever you want

[dec11ad]

Hey Guys,
I was thinking of buying another PCP and the Hatsan Flash (Wood version) coming out soon has tweaked my curiosity .  Hard to believe - a light weight Hatsan .
 
Has anyone tuned this gun in either .177, .22 or .25 caliber to make it more efficient? 
It's likely ported to .25 caliber out-of-the-box.

Because it has a 165cc tank, it should be able to get 30/40 good shots in .177 or .22.
I'm assuming the gun comes with the usual, Air Hog - Hatsan valve?. 
Has anyone put a Huma regulator in the gun to improve consistency?

Any help is appreciated

I did a thread on the power side of things mostly a while back, but since you asked about efficiency...  They are actually are pretty efficient all things considered.  You can definitely improve upon that though.  They are actually not ported for .25.  They tend to be somewhere in the middle for the average power level.  I opened up the valve seat/barrel port on both of mine.  I opened up the transfer in the .22 as well.
A regulator helps as long as you aren't going for too much power.  I tend to mod all my guns for power, then tune them down. 

In .22 I think I was able to get 36 shots in the 30fpe range regulated.  In .177 I was able to get 56 shots in the 18-19 fpe range regulated.  I think they are awesomely simple guns, that just work usually.  They are very light weight, which makes them great hunters.  I was also able to get my .22 to do 24 shots at 41 fpe unregulated with the 33.95 JSBs.  So yeah, they can be tuned to do pretty much whatever you want

to what diameter did you open the port on the .22?