Testing new discovery

[cosmic]

neodymium ring or puck magnets one in shroud and one around the barrel maybe...

[HunterWhite]

You could also reverse the concept; put the rare earth magnet into a non magnetic conductor, like aluminum or copper.

[grand-galop]

I'm I the only one considering the therapy sole gel???
That medium is well known for ABSORBING SHOCK AND VIBRATION..
AS a miner of trade, I use the new HALF GLOVES with inserts of gel covering  the palm entirely when I drill with the JACKLEG..

[cosmic]

That is a idea..

[Taso1000]

Hi All,

I've been driving a lot this week and I do my best creative thinking while driving.  I don't know why that is but maybe because I don't get distracted in the car.   

Anyway... I'm gonna throw out my ideas in the hopes someone can build on them or they trigger a new idea in someone that we can build on.   

So, I have been thinking of how to cancel the barrel harmonics.  At first I thought, that to cancel a sound we send the same sound but 180° out of phase.  That's how noise cancelling headphones work and sound is vibration in air versus our steel.

So then I thought if we have a second barrel firmly affixed to the first barrel but in the opposite direction, would it cancel the vibration if both were fired at exactly the same time?  Obviously it's not practical to shoot a pellet towards the rear as the shooter is in the way, among other reasons.   

Then I thought if we send the 180° out of phase cancelling vibration one cycle after the main barrel is shot that it may not be absolutely necessary for both events to occur at exactly the same moment.

I couldn't get my head around how our 1 pound particle dampers could cancel the barrel vibrations satisfactorily.  I was initially thinking it was one damping event.  But then when I realized we have a certain amount period cycles in our barrel vibration before the pellet exits the muzzle, we have multiple damping opportunities.  Hopefully the amplitude and frequency will decrease after every damping cycle so that the eventual result is no more vibration? 

The damping will be most effective at the start and then gradually reduce if our device is working.  The devices need to be solid enough and rigidly mounted to efficiently transmit the energy to and from the particles.  I hope that makes sense.

As for the broken link I found, I agree that there wasn't much of a conclusion besides more particles are better than less.  I couldn't tell if the dust sized particles were more effective than the larger particles.  I'll have to read it again because I think they were using on odd basis for comparison that seemed apples to oranges.

One thing that concerned me with the smaller particles was compaction and that the particles would act as one mass.  I don't know if that has any merit.  Maybe someone else knows?  Oh, and moisture would be bad with the smaller particles as they would cling to one another and possibly corrode.

Well those were my ideas for now.

Thanks for reading and I hope some light bulbs turn on!   

Taso

[Taso1000]

I'm I the only one considering the therapy sole gel???
That medium is well known for ABSORBING SHOCK AND VIBRATION..
AS a miner of trade, I use the new HALF GLOVES with inserts of gel covering  the palm entirely when I drill with the JACKLEG..

Alain,

It's been done.  It's called the Sharpshooter X-Ring Barrel Dampener.

https://limbsaver.com/products/sharpshooter-x-ring-barrel-dampener

This thread is exploring something different.

Thanks,

Taso

[grand-galop]

I'm I the only one considering the therapy sole gel???
That medium is well known for ABSORBING SHOCK AND VIBRATION..
AS a miner of trade, I use the new HALF GLOVES with inserts of gel covering  the palm entirely when I drill with the JACKLEG..

Alain,

It's been done.  It's called the Sharpshooter X-Ring Barrel Dampener.

https://limbsaver.com/products/sharpshooter-x-ring-barrel-dampener

This thread is exploring something different.

Thanks,

Taso

Taso!!!
No pun intended but I think you don't realize they don't work on the same principal..
I will not get in lengthy explanation on this but found funny your reaction..
Food for brain.

[anti-squirrel]

certain submarines in the Navy use HRC- hydraulic resonance changers.  These use a combination of "items" including transducers to shift the harmonic resonance on a big chunk of steel known as a propeller shaft.  This shaft connects the motive device (propeller) to the "gears".  We'll leave it simple like that, and the change of resonance changes the acoustic signature of the sub.  And almost all mechanical devices obn a submarine use RISIC and noise-isolation mounts to isolate the mechanical device from inducing vibration AKA oscillations into the hull, since - you know - subs kinda gotta be quiet.

Anyway, you don't need large weights or ultra-dense materials.  You just need something that cancels the harmonic or shifts it out-of-phase.  Like noise-cancelling headphones or shooter's active hearing protection.

A wave is a wave is a wave.  Once that wave starts in a barrel, it throws off accuracy.  Mike's idea is basically adding something to cancel the vibration wave AKA oscillation.  Lots of materials will work to greater or lesser degrees, but certain substances will actually amplify the wave. 

Think about Mexico City.  It sits on what used to be a lake that filled in.  Earthquakes are especially violent there because that in-fill quivers like Jell-O when they have an earthquake; the oscillation is actually amplified.  So gels might work, but I'm thinking they will actually exacerbate the problem.

The Wikipedia page on Vibration is informative and brought back some nightmares memories from Nuke Power School with the various things I never understood like eigenvalues and multiple Degrees of Freedom (for understanding the oscillation in tubing such as hydraulic lines or steam tubing or... barrels of a gun).  Some of the real smart folks like Bob could probably make better use of the information.  Ultimately, what we want is something to either shift the harmonics out of phase or damp them completely.

Anyway, just a bubblehead's view on things...

[Mole2017]

...
I couldn't get my head around how our 1 pound particle dampers could cancel the barrel vibrations satisfactorily.  I was initially thinking it was one damping event.  But then when I realized we have a certain amount period cycles in our barrel vibration before the pellet exits the muzzle, we have multiple damping opportunities.  Hopefully the amplitude and frequency will decrease after every damping cycle so that the eventual result is no more vibration? 

...
Taso

Some of those with more experience in barrel vibrations will have to confirm that, but it is certainly true for the high frequency modes. But it does still start to act on the first cycle, so we see some benefit at low frequencies too.

While I'm here, let me share this video I found while search "barrel vibrations":


Alain, is this the sort of thing you are thinking of, using the sorbothane or gel to support a mass?

[grand-galop]

David!! Excellent research and video demonstration..  You got it
This video demonstrate perfectly what we were discussing previously. 

NOW!! IT'S a kinda REVERSED ENGINEERING ( if you will)  to heve the device acting OUTSIDE OF THE VIBRATING TOOL.
IN this case,the barrel, is the tool to damp..   In this video the tool OSCILLATING IN ONE DIRECTION DUE TO THE TASK IT IS PERFORMING..
THIS IS WHERE CREATIVE MIND WILL BE A PLUS..

I THINK we can start with a 3 D print that could slide onto a barrel and have 3 cavities in a TRIANGULAR SHAPE to insert the gel cartridge..

[Lefusil]

I wonder if this material wrapped a couple time around the barrel would work.  Wouldn't be hard to try.

https://designengineering.com/boom-mat-flex/

[AlanMcD]

Rich,

I tried one wrap of a similar material called "Dynamat" on a .22 cal Marauder barrel once years ago (it was a decent shoot with 5.53 head size Baracudas), and I really did not notice any improvement in accuracy.  I had high hopes for it at first, as it clearly impacted the sound quality of the barrel when hit or contacted, but that was about it.

Anyways, sample size of one . . . .

[Mole2017]

I wonder if this material wrapped a couple time around the barrel would work.  Wouldn't be hard to try.

https://designengineering.com/boom-mat-flex/

There is a technique for sound dampening that uses coatings like that, but another approach, called constrained layer damping, is to use a thick adhesive layer to bond another sheet of metal (i.e. stiff panel) to the panel to be damped. A lot of hard disk drives use this on the plates covering the drive.

In a similar vein, I've been thinking about a material called "damping tape" by 3M. Kind of expensive, but a high quality metal duct tape might do the job, e.g. the 3M 3340 "pipe wrap" sold at Lowes. The both the foil and adhesive layer of the damping tape is a lot thicker than the 3340, which is also thicker than some other foil tapes. I've noticed that these are aluminum tapes; I have to wonder about using stainless steel tape instead, but that costs even more. Lead dust starts looking pretty attractive.

[grand-galop]

I might have found a good based material to test with since it is affordable and the right use for.

Look for EBay( motorcycle seat gel pads shock absorber mat)

I have tried 3 times to copying the link and it is not working..  Sorry!

[HunterWhite]

It sounds like that
" motorcycle seat gel pads shock absorber mat "
Might work really well on the butt stock. 😆

[grand-galop]

I wonder if this material wrapped a couple time around the barrel would work.  Wouldn't be hard to try.

https://designengineering.com/boom-mat-flex/

I don't want to demolished your theory but,  when I introduce my taught on using rubber oring supporting a weighted sleeve over an existing LCD,  the WARM WELCOME I RECEIVED make me dish my comments and keep the results for me.

[grand-galop]

It sounds like that
" motorcycle seat gel pads shock absorber mat "
Might work really well on the butt stock. 😆

It is so clever to point it out....

[HunterWhite]

I hope that I didn't diss anyone,  I'm trying to give that up.

Please forgive me for trying to make light of it, that's just my nature.

The good news is that everybody is trying different "out of the box" ideas.
That's the fun part!

Lead, lead in oil, tungsten, mercury, peanut butter and jelly, dr schoels shoe inserts,. . .
Try everything,  then post the results.

Knifemakers device works, no one questions that. It is more weight than most of us want to add. Many of us obsess over trying to get a light weight rifle. Maybe that light weight barrel is the cause of the trouble in the first place.
I have been tempted to post a photo of a Daisy 880 with a dead blow hammer duct taped to the muzzle. Okay,  that's just my nature.
Keep trying.
I hope to test the tungsten this weekend.
After that I'm going to ingest some peanut butter and see if I can still jump on the trampoline!

[KnifeMaker]

I'm I the only one considering the therapy sole gel???
That medium is well known for ABSORBING SHOCK AND VIBRATION..
AS a miner of trade, I use the new HALF GLOVES with inserts of gel covering  the palm entirely when I drill with the JACKLEG..

Alain,

It's been done.  It's called the Sharpshooter X-Ring Barrel Dampener.

https://limbsaver.com/products/sharpshooter-x-ring-barrel-dampener

This thread is exploring something different.

Thanks,

Taso

Yep, already have that. Tried it both with and without the device together. It made no change what so ever.


However, Tofazfou and Dyuotat100 both use them for their very long barrels in the Talon/Dors.


Knife

[KnifeMaker]

I don't know if the brainiacs here have noticed, but all this theory and what if's has completely derailed the thread.


Test is what this thread called for. Many posters have completely been run off due to the complete hard turn it has taken. It completely pushed the everyday shooter out. Which is exactly who the thread was intended for.




Test or move on please!


Please start a new thread for all this maybe/maybe not theory.


For all those that have actually worked hard and tested, both successful and not so, Thank You All. Keep it up. A wealth of info is being generated for us all to benefit from . We don't work in a lab. It is mostly, useless info for the shooters here.


The testers work is on the other hand very to the point and can be duplicated by all.


Once again, Thank You All!!! 


Knife