Testing new discovery

[grand-galop]

The device for me is intended for bench work. For long range varmint and possibly competition. With it static on a bench, the settling is not an issue.


My device is heavy. Too heavy for hunting. At 14.something oz's. Don't remember exactly right now. This included the mounts.


On the other hand, I  have always fund a heavy, stable platform beneficial in bench work.


Allen, I would love to see you actually contribute by possibly testing yourself, rather than spending all you time being negative. It is kinda getting a little old. All negative comments have no place here.


My Grandmother always said, "Can't never could do a thing". I'm not that nice.
I'm more in the Put up or Shut Up camp. Time for you to put your theories to the test, or let us get on with the work at hand.


Just Say'n!


Knife

I would be less CRITICAL AND VINDICTIVE than you... I have one question for you..

If you intended this device to work ONLY IN BENCH SHOOTING, why do you not mention that to member that has a more GENERAL PURPOSE IDEA use of this device???
Like in my previous comment, I don't discouraged anyone building the device but if they are not meeting the results they are looking for, it's because of a lack of analysis for the device..

You more than ANYONE is very BIAS  because you have discover it first and you want to protect your findings..
That is a normal REACTION COMMING from you and for THAT REASON, I never reply to your comments because of your EMOTIONAL IMPLICATIONS with this device..

Since you address yourself to me, I think it is normal to defend what is consider logical thinking over emotional..

If your device would be with WITHOUT ANY FLAWS, I wouldn't comments on here..
Since the results are MIXED RATE OF FAILURE AND SUCCESS, I think I am allowed to put my input..

[darkcharisma]

Did I just quote myself?


Old age and senility in full force. 

okay seen you asked. i just gotta say it. if you look back on this thread, you have been quoting yourself many times. its gotta be either senile or old age. it cant be bot, ưhich one í it? lol

[KnifeMaker]

I could care less about  defending the discovery. It either works for many, or it doesn't.


As far as the bench and long range shooting, I made mention of it from the first. Apparently you didn't bother reading the thread, yet complain about what you missed. [size=78%] [/size]


I am not the only one getting a little tired of your antics.
Now go do something or get off the pot. This is NOT a scientific study.  Not by a long shot.

[KnifeMaker]

Dark, yep, I blindly hit what use to be modify, and check spelling later, and it is no longer avaliable. I have always been able to re check anytime. GRRRR!

[KnifeMaker]

I am currently testing Hobbyman's version that looks much like a small ldc. It screws into the end of the barrel, (Shroud). Short, light and handy.

[skorec]

Knife,
Sorry,  but as a non native English men I am not able to understand al yours posts.

Excuse me.

[rsterne]

There is nothing wrong with debating the merits of various designs.... However, to flatly state that an untried design will be the answer to the problem seems unfair to those who have actually taken the time to MAKE and TEST their ideas....

Do I want this idea to succeed?.... Sure it would be nice if you could make one, of any dimensions, attach it to a rifle in any position, and cut your group size in half.... Sadly, that was not my experience.... Does that mean I have given up on the idea?.... Absolutely not, I will try a different design when I have the time, but my lack of personal success has lowered it in my list of priorities.... I don't even have the time to properly test my Harmonic TUNERS I have made....

I wish all those who are attempting to develop a Harmonic DAMPER the best of luck, and will continue to follow this thread with keen interest.... I will respect any and all test results, both positive and negative.... but I have grown tired of debating untried ideas....

Bob

[darkcharisma]

"yeah Mike, why the heck did you not tell us that this is for bench rest only? i am a hunter dang it! "

"oh yeah, thanks for the secret to this device but i am not as appreciative as others "

Alain, i have no beef with you brother but dang show some respect and appreciation. some of the testers showed solid proof with shot groups and you again discard their findings and told them they are bias. and by doing that you are calling them BS.
 some of your ideas about countering amplitude and 360* vibration doesn't mean anything if i can pick out one wrong theory from you. your theory was using only the pellet weight as the device as if the only thing making the barrel move was the traveling pellet. wrong
 i dont know where your mindset is but its not inline with most of us. you need to broaden your view and stop only focusing on your ideas while omitting other's as if yours would be superior. and also stop taking every comment as a personal attack. even if it was it would be good for you. try positive comments only on a kid for a month and he/she is set for failure for life

sorry dudes, i am a black and white personality. i just come say as is.
 Alain, i didnt find your answer to my questions and i am ready to receive comments

[superchikn]

I was going to post my so so findings on my first try, I encapsulated mercury in a clear PETG tube and suspended below and behind the LDC on my Fusion.
Nothing - Nada.
But before I did so I thought I might derive the approx weight of the mercury as I was shooting from the hip when I made the capsule,  I had not bothered to weigh it.
Conclusion - about an ounce of mercury slung under a Fusion does not help a pellet which already shoots well from this gun.
Should have weighed it but only took minutes to create so no loss.  I figured it weighed more though.

[Nvreloader]

Ray

FWIW,
You may want to increase your mercury weights, to see the results,
if you have enough material, double the weight and re shoot for results etc.

How far behind your LCD is the weight? 
Any possibility to move the weight right to the end of the LCD?

I seen a slight improvement on moving my MAD 4", to end of bbl etc.

I am running 6.40 oz of weight + clamp and can see the differences in group size @ 40 yds,(14.3/930 fps)
awaiting the rest of the heavy weight pellets to get here so I can do the before/after MAD tests etc,
at 50 yds.   

Tia,
Don

[Nvreloader]

Duy

+2,
I am a hunter also, but due too the lack of info provided by a certain party, as to it's intended use,
NO offence meant or implied,       

I'll build one for hunting end etc.

Tia,
Don

"yeah Mike, why the heck did you not tell us that this is for bench rest only? i am a hunter dang it! "

[superchikn]

Ray

FWIW,
You may want to increase your mercury weights, to see the results,
if you have enough material, double the weight and re shoot for results etc.

How far behind your LCD is the weight? 
Any possibility to move the weight right to the end of the LCD?

I seen a slight improvement on moving my MAD 4", to end of bbl etc.

I am running 6.40 oz of weight + clamp and can see the differences in group size @ 40 yds,(14.3/930 fps)
awaiting the rest of the heavy weight pellets to get here so I can do the before/after MAD tests etc,
at 50 yds.   

Tia,
Don

Don,
I am 100% sure more weight would be required,  I over estimated the weight of the mercury I used.  I used the clamp as you in #372 and the clamp is against the back of the LDC which can't be more than 1 1/2" from the end of the barrel.
My very first half A&& try was tie wrapping it to the LDC.  No joy.
I will double the size and try tonight.  I think something with a longer barrel like my D34 might see more benefit.

I sure wish I had known this was not for hunting!   

[Taso1000]

Michael,

"No good deed goes unpunished"

I am amazed at how some people can have any complaint or criticism of a forum member freely sharing a discovery that showed promise for the advancement of our hobby. 

No guaranties were implied by Michael. 

All he asked was that you share your success and failures so that the discovery can be fleshed out and refined so that all forum members could benefit. 

I have limited time and tools to do any fabrication and testing.  I bought some archery dampers from ebay that turned out to be of the particle variant.  Once I get my barrels back from JSAR to be machined I will try out my dampers and post my findings.

Keep up the good work to everyone who has spent and continues to spend resources on testing this discovery and reporting their findings.   

Thank you,

Taso

[Hobbyman2007]

Once again , I have nothing to add regarding further testing but what I do have is input on uses . As far as I am concerned ,even if this was some sort of snake oil cure for poor accuracy  I was able to improve my shooting from possible placebo effect I am going to continue using the devise .
What the devise did for me was improve groups shooting slugs plain and simple . It is 2.5 “ long and is not going to interfere when I go hunting so I will be using it for that as well as when I’m plinking or shooting groups on paper all at various distances . What the devise did not do is make a poor gun any better , improve the ergonomics , make the rifle more efficient or increase the size of my .....
I’m sure with the input from others from testing other filling material , sizes and weight we will get down to what works and what doesn’t . I’m absolutely certain I can improve on my original and my second version that Knife has . I certainly won’t be insulted nor will I care if someone improves on my design , I actually hope someone nails the design so we all benefit .

[superchikn]

Michael,

"No good deed goes unpunished"

I am amazed at how some people can have any complaint or criticism of a forum member freely sharing a discovery that showed promise for the advancement of our hobby. 

No guaranties were implied by Michael. 

All he asked was that you share your success and failures so that the discovery can be fleshed out and refined so that all forum members could benefit. 

I have limited time and tools to do any fabrication and testing.  I bought some archery dampers from ebay that turned out to be of the particle variant.  Once I get my barrels back from JSAR to be machined I will try out my dampers and post my findings.

Keep up the good work to everyone who has spent and continues to spend resources on testing this discovery and reporting their findings.   

Thank you,

Taso

Taso,
I do not know if you were referring to my comment about not for hunting, if so I was joking in the same way that Don was before me.
I remember Michael's comment early on when he first revealed his findings that having extra weight at the end of a barrel and especially weight mounted below the barrel would not seem conducive to hunting and therefore would be relegated to bench shooting for most.  (my words not his) but we all get the point.
Like the vast majority of us here I fully respect Mikes endeavor to offer his findings to a respected vendor here, and the way Mike handled that whole testing period.
I am grateful to Mike for then freely sharing something with us which he could have pursued and potentially made some money on.
I am just starting to play with ideas myself for how to make something work for me.  I would like to use mercury and hopefully integrate "vials" of HG within LDCs or shrouds.

No I never thought this would be for hunting but integrated mercury vials could work if not too much weight is required.  That remains to be seen.
Thank You Mike!!!

[grand-galop]

Once again , I have nothing to add regarding further testing but what I do have is input on uses . As far as I am concerned ,even if this was some sort of snake oil cure for poor accuracy  I was able to improve my shooting from possible placebo effect I am going to continue using the devise .
What the devise did for me was improve groups shooting slugs plain and simple . It is 2.5 “ long and is not going to interfere when I go hunting so I will be using it for that as well as when I’m plinking or shooting groups on paper all at various distances . What the devise did not do is make a poor gun any better , improve the ergonomics , make the rifle more efficient or increase the size of my .....
I’m sure with the input from others from testing other filling material , sizes and weight we will get down to what works and what doesn’t . I’m absolutely certain I can improve on my original and my second version that Knife has . I certainly won’t be insulted nor will I care if someone improves on my design , I actually hope someone nails the design so we all benefit .

 I will shared my finding with my second  reiteration of my design..
My first one was with an rc spring glued to a 1.3 gram copper joiner sliding in a sleeve..  That I discarded for is INABILITY TO IMPROVE ANY ACCURACY..

MY SECOND TRY WAS MORE SUCCESSFUL with 2 rubber washer glued to a 1 inch PVC that I was able to slide in and out..
At 80 yards with the qb 78 it was shooting jsd  16.20 in .177 cal  with 740 fps due to a change bottle configuration..
The improve results were 1 1/4 inch better group sizes..
 
Due to the UGLINESS AND THE REAL ESTATE needed for it to work properly, I decided to change the seeing and not sharing much for everyone to be happy with the design..


I am working on my third development of the DEVICE and I'm currently working with DR SHOULTZ  GEL SOLE SQUEEZED between the TKO LCD AND THE 1 INCH PVC  to liberate real estate on the rifle.

I think the improvement would be to use a heavier material than PVC to a more radical change.. The use of the lower pressure regulator make me wonder on the effect that the higher pressure would have  on the results..

The gel sole seems to have taken the place of my rubber washer with the same results but more ergonomic pleasing..
 Before I go, I will apologize to Mike aka Knife for my previous comments and I want to let people know that he deserve ALL THE CREDITS FOR WHAT I AM WORKING ON RIGHT NOW..

I WISH ALL THE LUCK WITH ANYONE GIVING A TRY TO IMPROVE THE DEVICE..


ALAIN

[Taso1000]

Ray,

Not at all intended towards you.   

In the beginning there were some people who expressed their annoyance at Michael when he was going through his process and didn't reveal the discovery fast enough for them.   

And recently the nay saying, it can't be done people.

Seriously???

If a post does not contribute to the discussion or is intended to start an argument, they should not be made.

We're all here to further our hobby.  Not squabble on who may be more right.     Present your findings and let it be.

We all have opinions and are mature enough to pick the gems of information that suit our situation.

How many ways are there to skin a squirrel?  (I don't want to offend any cat people or squirrel people!  lol  )

Thanks,

Taso

Michael,  I apologize for going off topic.  I will accept my disciplinary action for my offense.   

[robertr]

 I did some tinkering this afternoon and changed my device from bb's and oil to 9/16" d socket with a spring on each end filled with oil.
It was windy, 18mph se from my right rear. I shot anyway.
I used H&N Cuda Match pellets, they shoot average from my rifle.
 I tried the MAD device attached to the side of the barrel and attached to the top of the barrel, top of the barrel seemed better. It is small enough that I can not see it through my scope.
I shot 5 shot groups for the top two groups and shot 10 shots for the bottom group.
 
 Anyway here is a pic of the target, The H&N's are travelling at around 780 ish fps. More testing needed of course on a calmer day.


50 yards, top groups about 3/4 inch, bottom group hair over 1/2"

[rsterne]

That certainly seems to be an improvement with it mounted on the top.... but no change with it on the side compared to no device used.... It looks like the POI was quite a bit higher mounted on top as well?.... Interestingly, that is consistent with how you would tune a solid weight, so that the pellet is exiting when the barrel pauses (or nearly so) at the top of it's oscillation....

Bob

[robertr]

 Actually Bob I was aiming at the lower dot in the middle of the target so the drop was about the same as mounting on the side. The group mounted on the side I held one mil dot up.
A lot of drop with the H&N's going that slow.