Author Topic: Testing new discovery (Read 51926 times - 2 votes)
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rsterne · « **Reply #300 on:** June 13, 2019, 01:59:58 AM »

I don't think having a damper that weighs the same as the pellet will work at all.... not even close to enough weight.... My light damper had 1750 grains of lead shot, and the heavy one 3500 gr.... ie 38 to 193 times the pellet weight.... Additionally, the stiffer the barrel, the less effect I think a given damper weight will have.... As I said before, my gut feel is that the "math" of this is so complex we may as well just go by trial and error....

Bob

BackStop · « **Reply #301 on:** June 13, 2019, 02:04:36 AM »

Quote from: rsterne on June 13, 2019, 01:59:58 AM

I don't think having a damper that weighs the same as the pellet will work at all.... not even close to enough weight.... My light damper had 1750 grains of lead shot, and the heavy one 3500 gr.... ie 70 to 100 times the pellet weight.... Additionally, the stiffer the barrel, the less effect I think a given damper weight will have....

Bob

That is sort of what I was thinking. It is harmonic vibration that is being dampened, not the energy/weight of the pellet. At least, that's what I am thinking.

Perhaps someone with a way to measure the harmonics of the barrel could provide more useful data for testing? An oscilloscope perhaps?

I may take the Fire/F4 out of retirement at some point and play with these MAD devices. I don't think I need them on the Freedom. Not sure they would work mounted to the shroud anyway.

Nomadic Pirate · « **Reply #302 on:** June 13, 2019, 02:48:36 AM »

So, just out of curiosity

you could make an LDC with an extra outside chamber ( all around the unit ) as a damper right ?

it would be a bit thicker looking LDC but it wouldn't look as bad as would an extra device hunging from the barrel/shroud,

How off am I ?

BackStop · « **Reply #303 on:** June 13, 2019, 03:50:56 AM »

Quote from: Nomadic Pirate on June 13, 2019, 02:48:36 AM

So, just out of curiosity

you could make an LDC with an extra outside chamber ( all around the unit ) as a damper right ?

it would be a bit thicker looking LDC but it wouldn't look as bad as would an extra device hunging from the barrel/shroud,

How off am I ?

I don't think you are off, but I think that has been discussed earlier in this thread. I don't remember what the consensus was from the folks who are designing/building/testing the MAD.
I do believe that my DIY slip-on LDC seems to have helped accuracy, but it mainly stopped the "ping" harmonics that I was hearing when the hammer struck the valve on my .177 Freedom.

avator · « **Reply #304 on:** June 13, 2019, 08:41:43 AM »

Be interesting to see if this concept works when designed to surround the entire barrel or if it works because it's on one side of the barrel.

Wayne52 · « **Reply #305 on:** June 13, 2019, 08:53:39 AM »

I think that a person could make a damper with the "Shroud Front Support Sleeve" (#1) for the Freedom. Might be something to look into.

rsterne · « **Reply #306 on:** June 13, 2019, 01:15:16 PM »

If you are going to try a concentric arrangement, I would want to see the annular gap between the tubes more than twice the diameter of the shot.... Otherwise I think the shot could "jam" instead of being free to move up around the sides of the inner tube.... That means the ID of the outer tube has to be about 0.400-0.420" larger than the OD of the inner tube to provide that gap.... In other words, if you are putting this around the outside of an LDC, you are going to need to increase the diameter by about 1/2".... ie more than just "a little".... JMO....

Bob

Nomadic Pirate · « **Reply #307 on:** June 13, 2019, 01:24:27 PM »

Quote from: rsterne on June 13, 2019, 01:15:16 PM

If you are going to try a concentric arrangement, I would want to see the annular gap between the tubes more than twice the diameter of the shot.... Otherwise I think the shot could "jam" instead of being free to move up around the sides of the inner tube.... That means the ID of the outer tube has to be about 0.400-0.420" larger than the OD of the inner tube to provide that gap.... In other words, if you are putting this around the outside of an LDC, you are going to need to increase the diameter by about 1/2".... ie more than just "a little".... JMO....

Bob

WOW, that would be a big LDC

so, there's really no way to make this that is cosmetically appealing, or look like it's a part of the rifle in a streamline way.

grand-galop · « **Reply #308 on:** June 13, 2019, 01:30:56 PM »

Quote from: avator on June 13, 2019, 08:41:43 AM

Be interesting to see if this concept works when designed to surround the entire barrel or if it works because it's on one side of the barrel.

Depending on what mass the barel has to VIBRATE in, the amplitudes can be reduced significantly especially with pencil style barel..

grand-galop · « **Reply #309 on:** June 13, 2019, 01:34:37 PM »

Just watch a frequency generator effect interaction with a bowl of water.. The ripples on the surface of the water run a quarter length of the generator.

Nomadic Pirate · « **Reply #310 on:** June 13, 2019, 01:36:02 PM »

Quote from: rsterne on June 13, 2019, 01:15:16 PM

If you are going to try a concentric arrangement, I would want to see the annular gap between the tubes more than twice the diameter of the shot.... Otherwise I think the shot could "jam" instead of being free to move up around the sides of the inner tube.... That means the ID of the outer tube has to be about 0.400-0.420" larger than the OD of the inner tube to provide that gap.... In other words, if you are putting this around the outside of an LDC, you are going to need to increase the diameter by about 1/2".... ie more than just "a little".... JMO....

Bob

How about a chamber,
like the LDCs that Neil makes and you put the damper on the reflexed section of the LDC ?

rsterne · « **Reply #311 on:** June 13, 2019, 01:38:43 PM »

The concentric designs I offered earlier, which fit over the barrel instead of over the LDC, could be made about the same OD as the LDC, or even smaller.... The problem comes if you have an air reservoir extending right to, or near to, the muzzle.... As an example, on a bottle gun, you could have a combination damper and LDC where the rear damper portion slides over the barrel OD, and the part in front of the muzzle was just LDC.... It could likely all be built into the same OD tube.... something like this....

Great minds think alike, Manny....

Bob

TF89 · « **Reply #312 on:** June 13, 2019, 02:08:52 PM »

Nice design. How long is the addition? I see lots of dimensions, just not that one, am I missing it?

One more question regarding the dampener. Could that be screwed onto the end of the LDC or does it have to be closer to the muzzle?

Nomadic Pirate · « **Reply #313 on:** June 13, 2019, 02:23:50 PM »

Quote from: rsterne on June 13, 2019, 01:38:43 PM

The concentric designs I offered earlier, which fit over the barrel instead of over the LDC, could be made about the same OD as the LDC, or even smaller.... The problem comes if you have an air reservoir extending right to, or near to, the muzzle.... As an example, on a bottle gun, you could have a combination damper and LDC where the rear damper portion slides over the barrel OD, and the part in front of the muzzle was just LDC.... It could likely all be built into the same OD tube.... something like this....

Great minds think alike, Manny....

Bob

I didn't read most posts in the middle of the thread,....yep that is exacly what I was thinking that way it would be aestetically pleasing, I have many guns where I use Neil's reflexed LDCs and looking at the majority of guns I don't see many at all that have the tube/bottle the same length of the barrel/shroud

BackStop · « **Reply #314 on:** June 13, 2019, 02:34:32 PM »

Quote from: rsterne on June 13, 2019, 01:15:16 PM

If you are going to try a concentric arrangement, I would want to see the annular gap between the tubes more than twice the diameter of the shot.... Otherwise I think the shot could "jam" instead of being free to move up around the sides of the inner tube.... That means the ID of the outer tube has to be about 0.400-0.420" larger than the OD of the inner tube to provide that gap.... In other words, if you are putting this around the outside of an LDC, you are going to need to increase the diameter by about 1/2".... ie more than just "a little".... JMO....

Bob

Not to mention, would the heavy shot not STILL end up BELOW the barrel anyway? Just thinking out loud...

And that gets me thinking that if you have the barrel pointed UP long enough before you shoot, then the shot/weight would be at the back (chamber end) of the MAD. If the viscosity of the oil/liquid was too high, then the shot might not be able to do the dampening job as intended?

I mean, if the shot is at one end of the device, then it can ONLY react in one direction. Right? So, is it the weight or the movement of the weight making the difference?

OK... I'll just shut up now and listen.

grand-galop · « **Reply #315 on:** June 13, 2019, 02:59:57 PM »

Quote from: BackStop on June 13, 2019, 02:34:32 PM

Quote from: rsterne on June 13, 2019, 01:15:16 PM
If you are going to try a concentric arrangement, I would want to see the annular gap between the tubes more than twice the diameter of the shot.... Otherwise I think the shot could "jam" instead of being free to move up around the sides of the inner tube.... That means the ID of the outer tube has to be about 0.400-0.420" larger than the OD of the inner tube to provide that gap.... In other words, if you are putting this around the outside of an LDC, you are going to need to increase the diameter by about 1/2".... ie more than just "a little".... JMO....

Bob

Not to mention, would the heavy shot not STILL end up BELOW the barrel anyway? Just thinking out loud...
And that gets me thinking that if you have the barrel pointed UP long enough before you shoot, then the shot/weight would be at the back (chamber end) of the MAD. If the viscosity of the oil/liquid was too high, then the shot might not be able to do the dampening job as intended?

I mean, if the shot is at one end of the device, then it can ONLY react in one direction. Right? So, is it the weight or the movement of the weight making the difference?

OK... I'll just shut up now and listen.

Then, you can attach the weight to a spring.. Make sense..

BackStop · « **Reply #316 on:** June 13, 2019, 03:02:22 PM »

Quote from: grand-galop on June 13, 2019, 02:59:57 PM

Quote from: BackStop on June 13, 2019, 02:34:32 PM
Quote from: rsterne on June 13, 2019, 01:15:16 PM
If you are going to try a concentric arrangement, I would want to see the annular gap between the tubes more than twice the diameter of the shot.... Otherwise I think the shot could "jam" instead of being free to move up around the sides of the inner tube.... That means the ID of the outer tube has to be about 0.400-0.420" larger than the OD of the inner tube to provide that gap.... In other words, if you are putting this around the outside of an LDC, you are going to need to increase the diameter by about 1/2".... ie more than just "a little".... JMO....

Bob

Not to mention, would the heavy shot not STILL end up BELOW the barrel anyway? Just thinking out loud...
And that gets me thinking that if you have the barrel pointed UP long enough before you shoot, then the shot/weight would be at the back (chamber end) of the MAD. If the viscosity of the oil/liquid was too high, then the shot might not be able to do the dampening job as intended?

I mean, if the shot is at one end of the device, then it can ONLY react in one direction. Right? So, is it the weight or the movement of the weight making the difference?

OK... I'll just shut up now and listen.

Then, you can attach the weight to a spring.. Make sense..

Yes, but the the majority of the MAD devices being made are using lead shot (mercury in some) and oil or some other viscous liquid, not a solid weight. And the spring may introduce more harmonics to the equation.

grand-galop · « **Reply #317 on:** June 13, 2019, 03:11:24 PM »

Yes, but the the majority of the MAD devices being made are using lead shot (mercury in some) and oil or some other viscous liquid, not a solid weight. And the spring may introduce more harmonics to the equation.
[/quote]

But lead could be molded onto the middle of the spring and make the ole spring float in the viscosity desired but will return to it's initial place in the reservoir..

Tater · « **Reply #318 on:** June 13, 2019, 03:29:16 PM »

Has anyone made one with lead shot and maple syrup?
Asking for a friend.

mooseslayer · « **Reply #319 on:** June 13, 2019, 04:18:03 PM »

I tried but I kept drinking the maple syrup...

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Testing new discovery

Author Topic: Testing new discovery (Read 51926 times - 2 votes) )

Nomadic Pirate

Nomadic Pirate

Nomadic Pirate

Nomadic Pirate

Author Topic: Testing new discovery (Read 51926 times - 2 votes)
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