Testing new discovery

[darkcharisma]

have you tried moving the item along the barrel to see which position may help it better? to incorporate it into just a moderator also limits its full potential.

[bear air]

Off subject, hope the wife is recovering ok.

[Tater]

Off subject, hope the wife is recovering ok.

Yes. Thanks for saying it for us.

[KnifeMaker]

Thanks guy's. she is coming along well.
 
Mike

[kkarmical]

Thanks guy's. she is coming along well.
 
Mike

That's the most important information in this entire thread...

[bear air]

+1.

[grand-galop]

+1

[KnifeMaker]

OK fellow accuracy chasers, today's the day. LOL


Now, continue on this thread,or post a new one?


I will show the device, and explain why I tried it, and how to make it.


Some will argue, some will pout it down some will be ticked that either it took so long, or is so simple. (There are always one or two).


 Seems people expect complicated or expensive to feel something is worth while. NOT!


I like things that are simple, and foolproof. I kinda need that. 


Knife

[dmeguy]

I'd say new thread so it's easier to find and anyone that hasn't been following this thread gets a chance to see it.

[KnifeMaker]

A good hand full of members here have been testing the device. It works people.


Least effective on very low power/light pellets, but has shown improvements in several lower power guns with some pellets as well.


For Bullets/Slugs, it shows the most improvements.


My slug shooters are two totally different platforms. The go to at the moment is the Rainstorm, fitted with both a .25 al?W barrel, and a .257 TJ's barrel. Both show a huge improvement.


The .25 barrel is not fitted to the breach in the normal set screws thru the breach only system. It is fitted with two 2mm thick carbon fiber twill tubes which makes it very stiff. It is then secured to the threaded section fromthe factory that is made to secure the shroud. However, I have purposed it to actually secure the barrel by allowing the barrel to be threaded into the breach block. something I feel more AG's should have rather than set or grub screws securing the barrel.


That said, I also added one more set screw to the top of the breach, and two more on each side. I re-tapped the breach and installed stainless heli coils in the breach. Now I can pull and re-install the barrels anytime I want and not have the worry of wearing or stripping the threads in the breach itself.


both barrels are both fire lapped, and hand lapped and polished, muzzle trued and re crowned. Leade is set for the bullets they like to shoot, yet work with pellets very well also.


Groups shrank markedly with most bullets tested. Only one bullet out of 8 or 9 showed no improvement and infarct was a little worse. LOL!
Like pellets in barrels, each combo is different. A barrel likes what it likes as we all know.


Here we go Guys, the why and how.


Mike









Having been part owner of an archery shop and competing in 3 d matches for several years, I amassed quite a collection of trophies.


One of the accessories that helped in this endeavor was an item that a salesman dropped by  in the shop one day. Didn’t look like much, and I mostly dismissed it for a while. Huge Mistake!




It was the forerunner of  what we know today as a vibration dampener. Similar to a limb saver, but designed to attach to the balance attachment point of  the bows riser.

The modern ones are  mostly rubber and silicone and work well on a Bow, but I have my doubts as to their effectiveness on a gun barrel.

The original was nothing more than a apx.. 1 inch PVC tube, sealed on both ends, with a threaded rod on one end to allow the attachment to the Bow’s riser.  It apx. 5 1/2” long.  And capped with typical pvc end caps.

It was filled with oil, and lead shot. Yes, this is what eventually became the well known Dead blow Shop hammer we are all familiar with.

Well, while rummaging thru drawers in the shop this week, I found the old vibration/shock  dampener.

Humm, I wonder. No room to mount it to the barrel, too short. So I gave another idea a shot. I used old fashion Duct Tape, and solidly mounted it to the underside of the Suppressor. How’s that for shade tree mechanic rigging?


I shot ever bullet type I had in my shop, including several that didn’t shoot worth a hoot. Bullets that just would not stop spiraling. In both the 1-14” .257 barrel, nor the 1-17.7 .25 Walther barrel.

I was completely blown away with the results. One in particular, a shortened NOE RD decked down from 84 grains to only 43.6 grains. It was hopeless in still air, and less than hopeless in any kind of wind what so ever.

I’m here to tell you that all the wagging of the tail, and cork screwing instantly stopped. All bullets were touching at 50 yards, and a nice 1” group at 76 yards. Where they mostly missed the bullet trap all together before.

Now my .25 Walther barrel, is wrapped with two 2mm thick, carbon fiber twill tubes, and screwed into the breach. However, If you tap on the barrel with your finger nail, you can feel a very high frequency vibration thru the entire gun. Especially the barrel. Even the shroud or LDC exhibits this vibration.

Not all bullets shot better. None shot worse. But then again, I was fighting a stiff wind as it has been windy here in Central Texas for weeks now. GRRRRR!!!

I talked to DonnyFl about my findings, and at first he was a bit cold to the idea. However as we talked, he seemed to get quite interested.

My suggestion was to ;

1. Make a sleeve to fit his suppressors, (which they already have, but make it a double layer, with the sleeve filled with the oil and shot.  This could be changed out at the shooters whim, for match, to hunting. Sleeve for match and long range, and removed and the single layer sleeve installed for hunting. (It does add weight).

2. Possibly providing a sleeve with a Pica tinny rail affixed to the sleeve to mount such a device on the outside, but be solidly mounted, and easily removable at a moments notice.
Although this is an old school dampener, it seem very effective. Easy to make with simple hand tools.

I will continue the test, and would love to hear what you find if interested.

The work document that I wrote wiped out a lot of what I wrote down. GRRRR!! Hopefully it will be of use to some of us in our long range endeavors.

I would like to keep this quiet for the time being, and only sending it to log range shooters that I trust. DonnyFl is doing a lot of work for FX, and I would in no way  wish to harm what he may come up with.

I would love to see what you guys come up with.


The device is ultra simple to make. I used 1" PVC tube, with light weight oil inside and 4 or 5 12 gauge shotgun shells opened to get to the # 8 shot. The oil needs to not completely fill the tube. Simple avaliable end caps sealed with PVC glue works just fine. finished with truck bed liner black and installed two med. scope mounts on the end caps. Probably not the best way to do it, however I used JB weld to attach a Picatinny rain to the bottom of my Neil Clague LDC which made testing with and without fast and easy.


A few wanted the math for the project. Mr. Bob of course, however, this defeated the purpose. I wanted different shooters trying their take on the device. Not cookie a cutter approach. Variety seems to be a good way to get answers.   


Travis is also testing. I need to talk to him. I do know he found success wit it. I would love to try this device on the new Raptor!

Pics to follow.


Knife/Mike

[KnifeMaker]

While getting a bit of grief from a couple of members for not telling more and showing the device, I had to laugh to myself, as I had already posted a pic of the device almost by accident. I knew people would catch it. Oddly enough, no one noticed it. 


If it is not that noticeable on the gun, all the better. But once you see it, and know what it is, it is unmistakable. LOL!


The first pic is the one I though members would catch it. Yes, blurry, just like ufo and bigfoot pics. Does it really exist, or is knife just making it up?


The pic of the HEB target dot is three shot without and was a well over 1" spread top to bottom. the group on the right is using one of the bullet holes as the target poa, and as you can see, it was a cluster. This was with the device. This has been repeated over an over by both myself and other testers. 


I see no reason why this device couldn't be fitted to slide fore and aft of a barrel for testing as well.


My apologies for it being so simple. but that is kinda the point. easy-Peasy.


It's simple, and it works.


One member ask, (Restern) if the results were  simply due to the weight. I used a brass bar and cut it to match the weight and mounted it in the rings. Nope, No improvement what so ever. It isn't the weight.
I also tried the tried and true limb saver. It did help marginally, but it did not improve bullets that had issues, where the Anti variation device did.


These were dropped long ago in the Archery World as new methods came about. However, on ultra powerful high fps bows, seems for me, nothing worked batter. Yes, it adds weight, which for me only steadied the high stepping 3-D Bow all the more. Seems it does the same for our AG's. 


One of our members stumbled on two for sale, and got them in so didn't have to make his own. Worked for him as well.


Some of the testers were Dillon, Hobbyman, Travis, Darkcarsima, 3-D Ranch-OneShot, ScrewWork, I think, I wanted him on the list, but I forgot some. SantaClause. LOL, and a hand full of others. All gave good reports on results.


Should I post this on a new thread? PCP or Big Bore section?


I do want people to get the info.

Knife/Mike

[Mole2017]

That's pretty neat Knife! It's amazing how a little vibration control can work wonders--and this one isn't even "tuned". Big or small everything can benefit...Have you ever seen the units they put in skyscrapers? As a suspension guy in my grad student days all sorts of similar ideas pop into my head now...

I used to wonder why something on a gun was called a "limbsaver" but now I know--it didn't start with guns!

[KnifeMaker]

 


So much technology could cross over in many fields. So much is missed.
I for one would like to see AG companies take a much longer look at what has been learned in the PB world for centuries, and what has been discarded. Much of it for good reason.


AG Stocks are a prime example. Many are just ridiculous. Unhandy, heavy, badly designed for the task at hand. And this is only one area. Set screws for barrels? Rally? Not how to get top accuracy day to day. GRRRRR!!!

[darkcharisma]

Good going Knife!

I noticed the picture with the device a while back, but as soon as I saw a flaslight...i thought to myself...ooooh so he's the tacticool type of a person. Haha

Besides, you had been so lip tight about it, even if I spot it, I can't Say it.

[KnifeMaker]

LOL! Thanks Guy.


The light is there in the pic while testing poi shift if any as I use it at night for vermin elimination. 


I am hoping that some of the testers will chime in.

[KnifeMaker]

While getting a bit of grief from a couple of members for not telling more and showing the device, I had to laugh to myself, as I had already posted a pic of the device almost by accident. I knew people would catch it. Oddly enough, no one noticed it. 


If it is not that noticeable on the gun, all the better. But once you see it, and know what it is, it is unmistakable. LOL!


The first pic is the one I though members would catch it. Yes, blurry, just like ufo and bigfoot pics. Does it really exist, or is knife just making it up?


The pic of the HEB target dot is three shot without and was a well over 1" spread top to bottom. the group on the right is using one of the bullet holes as the target poa, and as you can see, it was a cluster. This was with the device. This has been repeated over an over by both myself and other testers. 


I see no reason why this device couldn't be fitted to slide fore and aft of a barrel for testing as well.


My apologies for it being so simple. but that is kinda the point. easy-Peasy.


It's simple, and it works.


One member ask, (Restern) if the results were  simply due to the weight. I used a brass bar and cut it to match the weight and mounted it in the rings. Nope, No improvement what so ever. It isn't the weight.
I also tried the tried and true limb saver. It did help marginally, but it did not improve bullets that had issues, where the Anti variation device did.


These were dropped long ago in the Archery World as new methods came about. However, on ultra powerful high fps bows, seems for me, nothing worked batter. Yes, it adds weight, which for me only steadied the high stepping 3-D Bow all the more. Seems it does the same for our AG's. 


One of our members stumbled on two for sale, and got them in so didn't have to make his own. Worked for him as well.


Some of the testers were Dillon, Hobbyman, Travis, Darkcarsima, 3-D Ranch-OneShot, ScrewWork, I think, I wanted him on the list, but I forgot some. SantaClause. LOL, and a hand full of others. All gave good reports on results.


Should I post this on a new thread? PCP or Big Bore section?


I do want people to get the info.

Knife/Mike

[superchikn]

Mr. Knife,
Great find and thank you for sharing it with us!
I have one of these laying around which should allow easy adjustable mounting for testing.

I was using it to hold a light on my D 34 and the POI was moving depending on where I had it mounted.  I had not used it again since I did not really need  light at that point. 

I'm anxious to try your discovery.

[Insanity]

I frankly wasnt expecting that at all.

[Hobbyman2007]

Here are a few pics of the attachment I made . I used a 2.5” piece of aluminium tubing , a length of delrin and a mix of light oil and steel shot. Being in Canada we don’t have LDC ‘s otherwise I would have made it slightly different ,allowing it to be threaded directly to an LDC . This one threads directly to the end of the barrel with a 1/2x20 inner thread , or the opposite end is a slip on that fits a non threaded barrel , in my case 15mm ID . The setscrew seen in the pic is what I use to fill the cavity with shot and oil , the orings on either end keep the fluid in the cavity.

[KnifeMaker]

While getting a bit of grief from a couple of members for not telling more and showing the device, I had to laugh to myself, as I had already posted a pic of the device almost by accident. I knew people would catch it. Oddly enough, no one noticed it. 


If it is not that noticeable on the gun, all the better. But once you see it, and know what it is, it is unmistakable. LOL!


The first pic is the one I though members would catch it. Yes, blurry, just like ufo and bigfoot pics. Does it really exist, or is knife just making it up?


The pic of the HEB target dot is three shot without and was a well over 1" spread top to bottom. the group on the right is using one of the bullet holes as the target poa, and as you can see, it was a cluster. This was with the device. This has been repeated over an over by both myself and other testers. 


I see no reason why this device couldn't be fitted to slide fore and aft of a barrel for testing as well.


My apologies for it being so simple. but that is kinda the point. easy-Peasy.


It's simple, and it works.


One member ask, (Restern) if the results were  simply due to the weight. I used a brass bar and cut it to match the weight and mounted it in the rings. Nope, No improvement what so ever. It isn't the weight.
I also tried the tried and true limb saver. It did help marginally, but it did not improve bullets that had issues, where the Anti vibration device did.


These were dropped long ago in the Archery World as new methods came about. However, on ultra powerful high fps bows, seems for me, nothing worked batter. Yes, it adds weight, which for me only steadied the high stepping 3-D Bow all the more. Seems it does the same for our AG's. 


One of our members stumbled on two for sale, and got them in so didn't have to make his own. Worked for him as well.


Some of the testers were Dillon, Hobbyman, Travis, Darkcarsima, 3-D Ranch-OneShot, ScrewWork, I think, I wanted him on the list, but I forgot some. SantaClause. LOL, and a hand full of others. All gave good reports on results.


Should I post this on a new thread? PCP or Big Bore section?


I do want people to get the info.

Knife/Mike