Author Topic: New tin of pellets, POA shifts dramatically! (Read 1435 times))

UlteriorModem · « **on:** April 27, 2019, 08:35:07 PM »

I was shooting the Gauntlet some today at 33yards and it was doing great as always. But, I ran out of a tin of JSB Heavy. Not to fear I had a brand new tin!

Chambered a pellet from the new tin, took a shot, and "What the heck?" it was an inch to the left and about 1/2" high. Took another shot to be sure, pretty much same spot.

I went and grabbed the double bags just to make sure it was not just me, same results.

So I zeroed the scope (again) and it went back to shooting tight groups of 1 inch or better.

Same Pellet, just a different tin, heck even the bar codes are the same!

20190427_183024 by Tom Whit, on Flickr

The 'new' tin is on the right.

Roadworthy · « **Reply #1 on:** April 27, 2019, 08:55:48 PM »

Possibly stamped out of a different die, on a different day, or after more wear on the same die. If you want to have really consistent shots you should try to get pellets in tins all created on the same die at about the same time. Crosman used to identify batches on their boxed pellets - maybe they still do. Unless you get into match grade pellets you are not likely to see that degree of care.

UlteriorModem · « **Reply #2 on:** April 27, 2019, 09:38:09 PM »

That is all very true

Thanks!

I was just surprised at how such a minor change in the pellet or lot can have such an big change.

Not complaining, a few clicks on the scope and it was all good.

Wish I had a few of the first tin to compare to the second tin, but, well there all in the pellet trap

rami939 · « **Reply #3 on:** April 28, 2019, 09:53:42 AM »

https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/what-jsb/

wimpanzee · « **Reply #4 on:** April 28, 2019, 10:50:48 AM »

I would invite you to compare the skirts (especially thickness) and share your findings.

UlteriorModem · « **Reply #5 on:** April 28, 2019, 10:55:34 AM »

Quote from: rami939 on April 28, 2019, 09:53:42 AM

https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/what-jsb/

Interesting, though he complains of poor workmanship and grouping. I don't have issues with either. They group quite well actually.

I remembered I had a few of the previous batch that were set aside to try pellet lube (it did not work out) but I was able to compare the two lots.

They were quite similar both lots had the same head size of just over 5.5 around 5.51 to 5.52 (measured with a pellet gauge). The new batch was ever so slightly heavier weighing in at 18.1 to 18.4 grains, while the previous batch weighed 18.06 to 18.1 grains.

A side by side visual inspection I did not see any apparent differences. The only difference is that the older pellets have a slightly more apparent seam line on them. Skirts are identical.

So maybe it was not the pellets after all

Duckfish · « **Reply #6 on:** April 28, 2019, 12:35:15 PM »

Out of courosity what gun are you shooting?

UlteriorModem · « **Reply #7 on:** April 28, 2019, 02:41:16 PM »

Quote from: Duckfish on April 28, 2019, 12:35:15 PM

Out of courosity what gun are you shooting?

Quote

I was shooting the Gauntlet some today at 33yards

onet12 · « **Reply #8 on:** April 28, 2019, 07:30:42 PM »

it looks like the importer for the usa region removes the details about sub-caliber for the pellets.

Normally in the EU when you buy 5.5 mm pellets you choose specific sub--caliber in the shop eg:
5.51 https://kolba.pl/product/2340,srut-diabolo-jsb-exact-jumbo-5-51-250
5.52 https://kolba.pl/product/2352,srut-diabolo-jsb-exact-jumbo-5-52-250 etc

JSB puts the labels on the back so people knows which sub-cal they get http://i67.tinypic.com/qs625z.jpg

Some guys when they find best subcaliber for the barrel eg: 4.53 they test many different batches in that subcaliber to find the "holy grail" - the best batch with best accuracy and they call all shops around to get as much boxes of that specific pellets

When the best batch is gone and you cant get it on the market people are looking for the new "holy grail" from new production because JSB changes slightly shapes and weight, thats why the labels on the back are so important

Buldawg76 · « **Reply #9 on:** April 28, 2019, 07:46:30 PM »

I believe the white label with the bar code is placed over the batch # and sub caliber by resellers here in the states to allow for better inventory control/revenue purposes. It would be nice if they did not cover the manufactures labels. Try carefully pealing that bar code label off to see if the batch/caliber label is underneath it.

Mike

UlteriorModem · « **Reply #10 on:** April 28, 2019, 10:48:34 PM »

I peeled the label off the back of a tin and there was nothing underneath.

Buldawg76 · « **Reply #11 on:** April 29, 2019, 02:45:25 AM »

Well that is no good, so how do you know the true size of the pellets other than measuring which to me is a PITA for sure.

Mike

onet12 · « **Reply #12 on:** April 29, 2019, 03:50:21 AM »

there are 3 importers in the usa and one in canada, http://www.schulzdiabolo.cz/en/list-of-distributors//severniamerika/
I have a feeling that the other importers doest remove the labeling, it might be worth to change the supplier

UlteriorModem · « **Reply #13 on:** April 29, 2019, 10:34:54 AM »

I got the tins from Pyramid Air. Where they got them from who knows.

BTW aside from the POA change the 'new' tin is very consistant and groups very well. I dont think I have had a flyer out of it yet!

nced · « **Reply #14 on:** April 29, 2019, 11:02:45 AM »

Quote from: onet12 on April 28, 2019, 07:30:42 PM

it looks like the importer for the usa region removes the details about sub-caliber for the pellets.

Normally in the EU when you buy 5.5 mm pellets you choose specific sub--caliber in the shop eg:
5.51 https://kolba.pl/product/2340,srut-diabolo-jsb-exact-jumbo-5-51-250
5.52 https://kolba.pl/product/2352,srut-diabolo-jsb-exact-jumbo-5-52-250 etc

JSB puts the labels on the back so people knows which sub-cal they get http://i67.tinypic.com/qs625z.jpg

Some guys when they find best subcaliber for the barrel eg: 4.53 they test many different batches in that subcaliber to find the "holy grail" - the best batch with best accuracy and they call all shops around to get as much boxes of that specific pellets

When the best batch is gone and you cant get it on the market people are looking for the new "holy grail" from new production because JSB changes slightly shapes and weight, thats why the labels on the back are so important

I have no experience with JSB .22 cal pellets but with the .177 JSB Exacts the label on the tins had no resemblance to the pellet head sizes! Matter of fact, I had a tin of Exacts labeled 4.50 and it had pellets with heads larger than the tins labelled 4.52mm and visa versa..........

Buldawg76 · « **Reply #15 on:** April 29, 2019, 01:57:47 PM »

Yea I found that the sizes stated on JSB tins are not close to what's actually inside the tin, very poor QC in recent times. I have found that air arms are more consistent and closer to indicated sizes than JSB. I have switched to H&N pellets mostly now as they still seem to be sized as indicated on tins much better hence better QC at this time.

Just my .2 cents.

Mike

outdoorman · « **Reply #16 on:** April 29, 2019, 02:33:39 PM »

JSB has definitely changed something. I've shot tens of thousands of their 15.89gr round head pellets through my D34 without much problems until the last order of tins (500ct). The heads on these are larger than all I've had in the past. The older pellets just dropped right into my breech requiring a light finger press to get the skirt flush. The new ones, the head sticks right away and must be forced into the barrel. This has caused a 20fps drop in velocity and makes it difficult to use a pellet pen as I always have used. I've got 6 tins that I don't even want to use. I still have 3 tins of 250ct that are fine. Pondering whether to try another order or switch to another manufacturer.

nced · « **Reply #17 on:** April 29, 2019, 03:43:06 PM »

Quote from: buldawg76 on April 29, 2019, 01:57:47 PM

Yea I found that the sizes stated on JSB tins are not close to what's actually inside the tin, very poor QC in recent times. I have found that air arms are more consistent and closer to indicated sizes than JSB. I have switched to H&N pellets mostly now as they still seem to be sized as indicated on tins much better hence better QC at this time.

Just my .2 cents.

Mike

I also found the 4.52mm Air arms domes considerably closer to listed size and more consistent than 4.52mm JSB Exacts. The last 4 tins of 4.52mm AA dome pellet heads measured 4.51mm on my digital caliper (probably simply a matter of caliper round off). Just for grins I ran the 4 tins of 4.52mm AA domes through my home made pellet head sizer that reduces my CPL pellet heads to 4.50mm and all but a few were actually sized a bit. I did have one dented tin which included a few pellets with "squished skirts" but most all other pellets were good........

onet12 · « **Reply #18 on:** April 29, 2019, 03:54:42 PM »

"I have found that air arms are more consistent and closer to indicated sizes than JSB."

As far as I know JSB also produces pellets for the AA.
The most consistent pellets are sold to the UK and the rest is sold in JSB tins.

"I've got 6 tins that I don't even want to use."
sell them on ebay, just mention that they are slightly tighter and people with loose barrels would be happy to buy them.

lizzie · « **Reply #19 on:** April 29, 2019, 05:23:13 PM »

Quote from: UlteriorModem on April 27, 2019, 09:38:09 PM

That is all very true Thanks!

I was just surprised at how such a minor change in the pellet or lot can have such an big change.

Frankly, I am more than surprised. I have NEVER seen such with any of my guns or with any pellet.
I don't usually een get that much of a poi shift with a different brand and weight pellet altogether.

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New tin of pellets, POA shifts dramatically!

Author Topic: New tin of pellets, POA shifts dramatically! (Read 1435 times))