HW80 Stock Refinish

[SpiralGroove]

Hey Guys,
I just sanded down my HW80 today; took it down to about 500 grit.  Tried to stain it with dark walnut stain .
Boy does it look horrific ........ , take my word, don't ever try to stain beech.  Tomorrow I will sand a little off and then hit with a 2 step poly.  Maybe it can be saved .

[TooJung2Die]

I feel your pain. I had the same thing happen on a Diana 45 stock with dark walnut stain. It came out blotched like a bad camouflage job. I tried everything to remove the stain. Even clorox bleach. Nothing worked. Not even an aggressive sanding. The stock is now painted with truck bedliner.

I found that using MinWax stain pre-treatment works well. Since the model 45 disaster I have stained a few beech stocks with good result.
jon

[Frank in Fairfield]

What was wrong with the original finish?
My R1, purchased in 1984, from you know who, has the original finish, albeit with about 100 coats of hand-rubbed BLO.
It looks fine to me and everyone else.
Beech, too.

[SpiralGroove]

What was wrong with the original finish?
My R1, purchased in 1984, from you know who, has the original finish, albeit with about 100 coats of hand-rubbed BLO.
It looks fine to me and everyone else.
Beech, too.

Hey Frank,
If I had that classic stock, I wouldn't be doing much to it.  The newer HW80 stocks are too beefy, lacking any style, not to mention stamped on checkering and no of extended forearm.  However, I mainly re-did the stock because the forearm and pistol grip were huge relative to my hands.

Ultimately, my decision to stain it against my better judgement was no doubt, a screw-up

[SpiralGroove]

I feel your pain. I had the same thing happen on a Diana 45 stock with dark walnut stain. It came out blotched like a bad camouflage job. I tried everything to remove the stain. Even clorox bleach. Nothing worked. Not even an aggressive sanding. The stock is now painted with truck bedliner.

I found that using MinWax stain pre-treatment works well. Since the model 45 disaster I have stained a few beech stocks with good result.
jon

Yeah TooJung,
I had learned my lesson well before this latest incident, but because it was a nice piece of (Minelli produced) Beech, I thought I'd risk it.  To list this as a mistake is an understatement.  I've tried the pre-stain before too, which helps a little.
My advise to anyone refinishing beech, is to use a 2 step poly .... it work very nicely.  If you can, stay away from Beech all together, it SUX .

[Stinger177]

The blotchiness is due to the grain characteristics of beech. The grain goes in and out of the surface like the waves of the ocean, which means that the wood fibers are open ended where the tops of the waves have been leveled to a flat plane. Those are the hot spots where stain gets absorbed more readily and results in the blotchy areas. Certain other woods do this as well.

Almost every beech stock is originally sprayed at the factory with a mix of the color and clear finish, also known as a "toner". It's more like painting on a translucent paint, thinned just enough to allow the color to penetrate very lightly into the grain to bring out some character, but thick enough to not penetrate too deep. The toner can be applied in multiple coats to get the depth of color and is then followed up with a heavier clear coat. This small amount of color penetration is also why just the slightest "nick" exposes the raw natural color of the wood. In the factory the stocks are hung on wires in a spray booth and are turned and twisted until the toner coat is uniform. Kitchen cabinet doors are done the same way.

Beech is a great wood for carving as it has very short fibers which hold fine detail. It's used for making sand molds for metal casting for this very reason. It's also very dimensionally stable. Unfortunately it does not stain well.

Walnut on the other hand has long linear fibers that do not wave, or if they do, it's very gradual leaving no "open ends" for stain to get sucked in (unless the grain is going up and over a burl or knot).

So bottom line is friends, unless you have access to and know how to spray finishes, don't try staining beech. This is not to say that any of you could not do it however. A simple spray gun from Home Depot and a compressor are all you need. Mixing the stain, clear, and thinner to create a proper toner is where the "experimental" process lies.

One more thing about walnut stains - dark walnut is DARK. Almost black, and that black pigment is what gets sucked into the open ends of the grain and unfortunately is in there so deep that no amount of reasonable sanding will get rid of it. Using a solvent to remove it will only make it thinner and penetrate even more.

EDIT - Those poly stains mentioned before are a sort of premixed toner themselves. I honestly don't have much if any experience with them though. I do know however, that the more coats applied, the darker the final color, so if you use them, use a colored one first to achieve your final depth of color and then follow up with a clear for a more durable finish.

Hope this all helps. 

[TooJung2Die]

My advise to anyone refinishing beech, is to use a 2 step poly .... it work very nicely.  If you can, stay away from Beech all together, it SUX .

They say experience is the result of poor judgement.    I finished my Diana 52 with Helmsman one-step stain and poly. It had a beat up stock. I was happy with the result. It came out looking factory and that was the goal. Bottom line, I agree... If it ain't broke don't fix it. Especially when you're talking about beech wood stocks.

jon

[Frank in Fairfield]

My 52 looks good with the BLO treatment too.
My grandfather told me:
Once a day for a week..
Once a week for a month..
Once a month for a year..
Then once a year for the rest of your life:

[Stinger177]

Excuse my ignorance, but what is BLO?

[SpiralGroove]

Excuse my ignorance, but what is BLO?

Boiled Linseed Oil

I just re-sanded stock, from 150 to 320 and now ready for some Varathane "Provincial" 2 step poly.  It's not a dark as Walnut, but pretty close.  I'm not attempting to use any BLO as some dark stain remains in end grain wood which would look dirty.  I will post pic when I'm done .... I'm hopeful    

[Stinger177]

You have our confidence Kirk.

I'm sure it will look great. 

[SpiralGroove]

Guys,
Got the stock sprayed, but need to let the 2-step poly harden before buffing out with Mothers Mag Polish.
I reduced the size of the forearm, pistol grip and changed the shape of the Monte Carlo cheek rest. 

Here is the before:


... And during:

[Frank in Fairfield]

I can only see one side of the original but what I see is fine to me.

[SpiralGroove]

I can only see one side of the original but what I see is fine to me.

Like I said Frank, the original stock was way too bulky for my hands.  So I mainly wanted to trim down the pistol grip and forearm and re-work the Monte Carlo cheek piece to be similar to your R1.  When finished, it should look just as good as the original, but customized for me.

The whole stain issue was just a big error on my part, which only hurt the final product by about 10% in looks.

More History: The original HW80 stock was broken at the pistol grip, upon delivery from Krale a couple of years ago.  I asked for a replacement and they accidentally sent me a HW98 stock.  I didn't want to give up the HW98 stock, and shipping being what it is, Krale agreed to me keeping both stocks.  I agreed to fix the broken stock by adding a dowel pin into the pistol grip and glueing it back together.  So the original pic above is a repaired stock already.

[SpiralGroove]

Here is the before:


... And during:

And after:




The stock now fits my hands much better and I got rid of that awful, semi-Monte Carlo look .
However, I'm not so sure about the lighter brown look .

[TooJung2Die]

The stock now fits my hands much better and I got rid of that awful, semi-Monte Carlo look .
However, I'm not so sure about the lighter brown look .

It looks great in the photos. 

I have tried refinishing beech so it is as dark as the original finish. Never achieved it by using stain. It always comes out lighter but that isn't necessarily bad. I'm annoyed because I didn't achieve my goal but everyone else likes the finish! The only finish that comes out as dark as factory is one-step stain in the finish like the factory uses. It's tricky to spray on evenly.

[Stinger177]

The only finish that comes out as dark as factory is one-step stain in the finish like the factory uses. It's tricky to spray on evenly.

The trick to getting the depth of color desired, and an even coat, is to mist it on in several light coats until it's uniform (and the final depth). 

[SpiralGroove]

The only finish that comes out as dark as factory is one-step stain in the finish like the factory uses. It's tricky to spray on evenly.

The trick to getting the depth of color desired, and an even coat, is to mist it on in several light coats until it's uniform (and the final depth). 

Exactly what I learned Stinger .

I hadn't used a 2 step colored, poly on a gun stock in about a year or so and the nozzle on the "Provincial" can I had laying around was partially plugged .  I had to use a razor blade to get the can to spray at all.  Unfortunately, I got a narrower stream of paint from the can instead of a good mist.  This made it hard for me to balance the color and avoid streaks unless I went extremely dark. 
Because I was in a hurry to get this cheapo, beach stock done, I just didn't take the time to get a new can.  When I sanded the hardened poly, I tried to even it out the best I could with 500,1000 & 1200 grit before rubbing it out with Mothers Mag Polish. 

One important "Trick" I have found with all stocks is to be aware to round all curves when sanding the actual finish coat.  This intentional, (albeit) slight rounding gives all curves the stock a soft, rich look .

[SpiralGroove]

It looks great in the photos. 

Hey TooJung,
The stock actually looks better than the pictures.  Because of glare, you can't see much of the nice, but slight grain pattern. 
As stinger mentioned below, to get a nice look from the 2 step poly, you should buy a new can to start each stock as the paint cans or nozzles don't seem to work "like new" after sitting around for a year or so (all my paint cans are in this category ).