ATI NOVA LIBERTY LEAKY POPPET and VALVE connection

[FuzzyGrub]

Very nice reply from the manufacture which I find to be VERY rare.

Agree 100%

[Hawkeye51]

Yes Stephen, that response was incredible. How rare to find a manufacturer that will take a (noted) customer's concern and immediately call a meeting to discuss a solution. If they are that responsive now, this community can help them refine their products to be some of the best on the market.

[Rohmpm]

Pressed the stem out and made a peek seal. Made the od smaller, bore the valve .030 a refaced it for a sealing ring.  Ended up .025 shorter. Burnished it in with rubbing compound and it seals perfectly.

[Bob Pratl]

Pressed the stem out and made a peek seal. Made the od smaller, bore the valve .030 a refaced it for a sealing ring.  Ended up .025 shorter. Burnished it in with rubbing compound and it seals perfectly.

Billy, does the valve seat still have a lip on it or is it machined flat? It's hard to tell in the photo?

[Rohmpm]

Pressed the stem out and made a peek seal. Made the od smaller, bore the valve .030 a refaced it for a sealing ring.  Ended up .025 shorter. Burnished it in with rubbing compound and it seals perfectly.

Billy, does the valve seat still have a lip on it or is it machined flat? It's hard to tell in the photo?

It has a small lip protruding just a few thousanths

[FuzzyGrub]

Thx for everyone's input on this.  I did order the peek and delrin to have on hand when mine start to leak.  I will re-use the existing stem. 

[AVS Stephen]

Forgive my ignorance but what is a peek? Thanks

[FuzzyGrub]

what is a peek? Thanks

Polyetheretherketone     I can only tell you from what I have read here, it is a harder material than delrin/acetal, and can handle higher pressure without deforming, over delrin.  For the regulated pressures in the Liberty, I think delrin will be fine. 

Peek is also used in some strikers to reduce noise. 

[RDB]

 A little Wiki info

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyether_ether_ketone

[Bob Pratl]

I'm not sure if anyone has tried this but I remember reading, some ware, that you can check a valve for leaking by attaching a small balloon to the end of the barrel and see if it gets inflated overnight.
I would suspect a leaking regulator if after firing a shot and the next morning there is still a large amount of air in the plenum. If the regulator is leaking and the valve is not than where is the 2000 psi going because all of that air won't fit in the plenum. What is the best technique to test for a leaky regulator?

[Hajimoto]

Stephen,
 Very encouraging read from the folks at Nova Vista. I was very impressed with the delicate way in which me Kee Keat navigated through some very sensitive topics and territory.  [/size]I am interested to see what the resolve is. [/size]

[AVS Stephen]

I'm not sure if anyone has tried this but I remember reading, some ware, that you can check a valve for leaking by attaching a small balloon to the end of the barrel and see if it gets inflated overnight.
I would suspect a leaking regulator if after firing a shot and the next morning there is still a large amount of air in the plenum. If the regulator is leaking and the valve is not than where is the 2000 psi going because all of that air won't fit in the plenum. What is the best technique to test for a leaky regulator?

Bob, I believe the air leaking from the Regulator is going to the vent hole that goes to atmosphere. The vent hole allows the regulator to breath properly. I noticed a small vent hole on the regulator (see photo). The air would be leaking between the regulator block and the receiver. That's what I understand.

[AVS Stephen]

Thank you John and Rob for the explanation.  I learn something new everyday.

[AVS Stephen]

Stephen,
 Very encouraging read from the folks at Nova Vista. I was very impressed with the delicate way in which me Kee Keat navigated through some very sensitive topics and territory.  [/size]I am interested to see what the resolve is. [/size]

Hey Haji, Yes, this is good news for now. If Nova Vista actually makes good on the promise to fix the poppet problem I will be a huge fan.

[Rohmpm]

Stephen,
 Very encouraging read from the folks at Nova Vista. I was very impressed with the delicate way in which me Kee Keat navigated through some very sensitive topics and territory.  [/size]I am interested to see what the resolve is. [/size]

You could just cut the metal sleeve enclosing the actual seal back fifteen thousanths or so so the metal does not bottom out on the valve. That should seal things up for quite a while if not permanantly or just follow my solution.

[Bob Pratl]

You could just cut the metal sleeve enclosing the actual seal back fifteen thousanths or so so the metal does not bottom out on the valve. That should seal things up for quite a while if not permanantly or just follow my solution.

I opt your solution, nice fix with better flow. Did you Loctite the stem to the peek seal?

[Chester]

What a refreshing answer from Nova Vista to Stephen concerning poppet problems with the liberty. It is this kind of responsiveness and open minds that build superior products and  a loyal customer base and consequently great companies. I certainly hope that someone recognizes the vital importance of having parts available for situations that require them. In my opinion this is another building block in establishing a loyal customer base and many repeat sales in the future. There are several innovative pioneers within the GTA membership  that have made many contributions to the airgunning community with respect to the Liberty in particular and their efforts are greatly appreciated. Without their creativity and willingness to experiment,  the Liberty would not be as recognized and popular  as it is today. Chet

[tracker1955]

Really glad to see that the manufacturer is responsive to the problem, they otherwise have a great rifle at a very reasonable price point. I am fortunate that I haven't had any issues with mine as of yet, but know to watch out for it in the future. At the same time, I'm also not trying to push the power level too high causing additional pressure on the stem. I have some Delrin rod on hand should I need to attempt making a replacement seat in the future. Could also try shaving the band back a few thousandths to extend the life span of the current sealing material.


I want to thank Steven also for his direct efforts in contacting the manufacturer and making this problem known to them.

[Rohmpm]

You could just cut the metal sleeve enclosing the actual seal back fifteen thousanths or so so the metal does not bottom out on the valve. That should seal things up for quite a while if not permanantly or just follow my solution.

I opt your solution, nice fix with better flow. Did you Loctite the stem to the peek seal?

The stem has a shoulder that the peek  rests on. Also, the stem diameter is larger inside the peek so it is counterbored. I used epoxy.

[AVS Stephen]

Here is a second follow-up from Kee Keat...



Hi Stephen,

Thank you for your reply.

Nova Liberty has a complicated structure to install and there are serial vulnerable parts in this air rifle. As for the O-ring inserted to poppet parts, we use the hardest material that it should allow 10000 shots of lifespan. However, we believe the cause of leaking is the brass valve, the user might not use the correct tools to assemble and maybe damage the brass valve.  It requires a specific method to prevent the damage. Please refer to attached video for your reference.
 
The quickest solution to this problem is to apply these vulnerable parts to replace from ATI. Owing to this problem, we will send them more of these as soon as possible that all of our customers can obtain enough components to fix their rifle. But please allow us some time to arrange these parts to be send to ATI, hope you understand the process of sending airgun parts from China to US will take some time.
 
In addition, could you give us a list of the components which required more to replace? We can send more of these components to ATI so that customers are able to obtain these at once.

Thank you.

regards,
Kee Keat