Which one?

[Nvreloader]

Guys
The itch just got too bad for a 25 cal AG, and the funds have built back up...........

So I want a 25 cal AG, the choice is between the Mrod and Gaunlet 25's,
1. Repeater action which mandatory,
2. Both have decent # of shots per fill, for a hunting rifle,
3. Adjustable stock comb in mandatory,

Either will be modded to a decent range, but over the 30FPE of my 22 cal, is at now.
I would like to keep the to the $300 range for the rifle, $200 for the new scope, and a new NOE molds.

I'll get a pellet and slug molds, I just don't know which, can't decide which NOE mold to get yet,
please give the NOE info for the molds, if you would, to best fit the above AG's.

Have any suggestions or thoughts, as I need them to make the funds go the farthest and best buy's,
for my Coke a Cola budget.......LoL

Tia,
Don

[rsterne]

If you want regulated, you have to add the cost of that to the MRod…. If not, then the MRod can deliver quite a bit more punch than the Gauntlet, because of its rather small plenum.... Of course, if you used the same size plenum in a regulated MRod build, that difference goes away.... The Gauntlet has more onboard air than would a regulated MRod, as the reservoir it starts with is the same size as the Gauntlet bottle.... so should have a slight edge in shot count....

I don't think the Gauntlet would handle the .25 cal Magnum Hunters all that well, because of the limited plenum.... unless you are happy with shooting them at 50ish FPE.... Mind you, if you crank the MRod up to 70 FPE to handle them, you would need a larger plenum, and not many shots either.... For that reason, I would stick with the .25 cal Hunters for either gun.... JMO.... If you contemplate pellets that heavy I would choose the MRod and leave it unregulated.... unless you plan a bottle conversion (BRod) to get a large plenum and decent shot count....

On the plus side, the Hunters, or the 25.4 gr. JSB Kings, have a pretty good smack to them in the 900s.... 

Bob

[KnifeMaker]

Don,


te Hunter would be good for what you jwant I would think. For a bullet, you want light and accurate.


An easy fast casting bullet is the MP 6.35 bullet for airguns. Designed by my buddy Gregor Kimsek (SP)?


It is 47 grains, mold is 8 cavity so rains bullets out, beautifully made and very high quality. The price is a little less than NOE, and shipping is free. Only catch is they are supposed to make them this month. I'm waiting on one now.


From NOE, only the BBT's are light enough, and some guns shoot them well, and some do not. It's a Carp shoot. Best advise for them is have someone send you some cast to test before plunking down the bucks.


Here is a link to the MP's. You have seen them talked about on Castboolits.com under the name MiHec. Again, Sp?


https://www.mp-molds.com/e-shop/molds/solid-molds/6-35-mm-air-rifle-pellet-8-cav-mold


 


Mike

[K.O.]

well I bet one of the Hatsan knowledgeable guys could recommend one of these as a base for a certain .256 Marlin Barrel... I suspect the Bt65 would be best(largest air tank)...

could call it a NR .256... would be the first and only of it's kind..

 you are in the casting gate.. lots of .257 molds out there..


 but yep  unbeatable low prices so you can afford to convert the Marlin barrel ( I picked a .22 AT 44 long syn)

https://hatsanairgunsusa.com/product/at44pa10-pump-action-closeout/

and that is the .25  which won/one for right now....

Think Bob did a write up on Juicin Up Hatsans...

[Nvreloader]

Guys

I have so many choices to make, just not sure which way to jump.
I am leaning towards the 250 Hunter pellet style, first off and then get a BBT slug mold, then I have both bases covered, I hope.
I want to get the molds first, as they seem to be in short supply, then get the rifle, as they are everywhere....LoL

Kirby,
Yes, that 256 Win Mag, Marlin bbl keeps slipping in, from the side lines, but I don't think that it will work for the pellet end.
I have to find some 25 cal lead slugs to check the bore dimension and double check the twist rate,
and I am 99% sure, it's 1 x 14", also have a new 25/06 bbl, 1 x 10 twist to think about also,
but that twist rate will be to fast for a AG.

Have to do some more researching, with the info that Bob provided,
as I would love to have the same HPA bottles, that fit the QB work for the 25 cal,
and all, but 1-2 of them will take 3000 psi, and one takes 3600 psi.

I think I have jumped in over my head, again.........
still waiting for more thoughts or suggestions to come in.

Thanks all,
Don

[rsterne]

Don, I'm a bit confused.... If you are planning on shooting slugs, you will need to do some mods to the MRod to get enough power.... and realistically I think that is out of reach for the Gauntlet.... I can't imagine you want to shoot slugs, which start at 40 gr. and go up from there, at 40-50 FPE, but I could of course be wrong.... I like to shoot at around 900-950 fps, which means you need 1.8-2X the pellet weight in FPE.... I shoot 25.4 gr. Kings at 52 FPE and 34 gr. Heavies at 70 FPE, and would consider that about the minimum power level for 40 gr. slugs....

Bob

[Nvreloader]

Thanks Guys

You're not the only one confused now, look at it from my side, LoL 

I wanted to get the Mag hunter 25 cal pellet mold, but none are available at this time,
so I'll get the Hunter mold first, then get a Mag Hunter mold when available,
then I thought about the lightest weight slug mold as a backup.

And I have that 256 Win mag bbl, which is 1 x 14" twist, I would like to adapt to either of the 25 cal AG,
if possible.

KO brought up the Hatsan models of AG, which I know nothing about, but some of them are on sale now,
and from what little bit I understand about them, they appear to be 1 step above the Mrods/Guaunlets AG's,
meaning more power and higher price tag etc.

You mentioned about regulated/nonregulated Mrods, were you talking about regulated from a 3000+ air tank/bottle,
or from the OEM pressure tube or something else?

Trying to wrap my head around all the info, sorry for being confusing, as I am over whelmed with the info given,
and I greatly appreciate all the info given by everyone etc.

Thoughts or suggestions,

Tia,
Don

[rsterne]

Most guys that regulate MRods do so by installing an in-tube regulator, which uses up some of the 215 cc reservoir of course.... That is OK for tunes up to 40-50 FPE (like the Gauntlet achieves), but to go for more power, you need a larger plenum, and a higher regulator setpoint.... both of which eat up shot count....

The alternative on an MRod is to shorten the main tube and fit a bottle, like these BRods of mine....



From top to bottom, .35 cal tuned to 150 FPE, .30 cal tuned to 100 FPE, and .25 cal tuned to 70 FPE.... The plenum is 85 cc, so it's a bit small for the .35 cal.... The .25 cal is regulated at 1800 psi, the .30 at 2000, and the .35 cal needs 2200 psi to achieve that power level.... Those are 500 cc 3000 psi bottles, and pretty heavy, a CF bottle would be a far better choice if hung out the front like that.... If you make the plenum longer, and make a custom tank block (those tubes and blocks are from a FLEX/COBRA), you can reverse the tank under the plenum, like on my custom 6mm PCP....



It happens to be a single shot, but you could build a .25 cal version using .25 cal MRod parts, it would look like the top or bottom one in the other photo (depending on which trigger group and stock you chose), but with a slightly longer tube and the bottle reversed.... I think that JSAR are now building a tank block that can take up to 2 bottles, forward, backwards, or both, you would have to ask Travis for details....

Bob

[Nvreloader]

Bob

Thank you,

That explains a lot to me,
I do like the very bottom one in the photo of the group of 3, along with your custom 6 mm AG.

But would like the bottle reversed underneath, for compactness,
as I need an adjustable stock/LOP, along with the AR style of grip, for a hunting rifle etc.

Are those 24" bbl lengths or longer?

Thank you for your time and trouble.
Don

[Kinetic45^]

Speaking from experience, I have done exactly what you are describing, both as a tube gun and as a bottle gun and in the end I spent about triple what the rifle cost.  Some of the work I did myself or it could have been even more expensive.

One of my .25 Mrods has a .30 Huma regulators which has a larger plenum (Trenier Outdoors supplied mine but you have to call as it used to be special order). Then you combine that with a Hill high volume gauge port and your plenum will be large enough for the bigger FPE.  To make up for the lost cc on the high side I replaced the steel tube with an extended aluminium one.
I revalved with the Hill max valve and TP then openned my barrel up to .187.
Because of the Al tube I use a JSAR MDS hammer and SSG spring system.
All this gives me the lower levels of the power you are wanting and cost like I said. The bottle gun was even more expensive.  I never reached the high FPE I was trying for WITH THE CONVERSIONS but have with rifles that were designed/sold for that

Later I figured out just buying a Wicked Air Rifles FLEX with a Cothran valve was a better financial value because it was shooting right out of the box.
Key words there 'better financial value' n 'shooting out of the box'
My recommendation is commit the money to buy one of the Rifles on the market that are made to have the best power PRACTICAL because trying g to get the theoretical power out of a pneumatic needs compromises and lots of either money or skills if you are doing it yourself.... But if you commit to doing it yourself, you either give up or end up skilled in airguns and learned a lot of expensive DIY when you are done

Also, the price you can get for a DIY heavily modded is usually low resale but the quality high powered ones from multiple manufacturers hold value better. ( Of course there are exceptions both ways but the exceptions are just that, exceptions)

I also learned that in .25, trying for 45 FPE and pellets was 'just right', slugs need that 65 FPE that's harder to reach in a low cost rifle

[rsterne]

The .25 cal is a 23.8" LW barrel.... The .30 cal is 25-26" and the .35 cal is 27-28" (but no air stripper)…. You could build a duplicate of the bottom one (.25 cal) using a Cothran or SS Valve, a shortened MRod tube, PRod trigger group (drill and tap the tube to accept it), an AR stock adapter, and one of JSARs new tank blocks that will allow a reversed bottle with regulator (have the tube cut to the proper length and threaded to accept it)…. If you used a CF bottle and an aluminum tube it would be quite light.... and you can now get 580 cc 3600 psi bottles, which would give you a ton of shots.... If you want to sleeve the barrel, you can go up to 18mm no problem, or 3/4" with care, and set the sleeve into the receiver 1.25" without hitting the 4-40 receiver screws.... This means a LOT of custom work, of course....

Bob

[Hobbyman2007]

I’d have a real good look at the BT65 if looking at slugs and pellets . If that doesn’t float your boat the twin tube Sumatra 2500 would be my choice . The Sumatra has a big enough magazine to fit longer slugs and all pellets and can have 100fpe right out of the box with zero mods .

I think I just talked myself into buying one . .....

[Nvreloader]

Thanks Guys

At this time, the 3 that come to the top in the 25 caliber, are the Mrod, Gaunlet and the Dar, which I forgot about,

Denis,
That twin tube Sumatra 2500, is in the Trump price range,
I only have a Coke a Cola price range at this time, LoL

That way, if I don't like the 25 caliber, I can always change it back to another 22 or 17 caliber,
by changing the bbl/mags out etc.

I got the NOE 25 Hunter pellet mold, to start with, as that seems to be the shortest item on the supply chain.

Will worry this bone some more, and read what I can find out about the 25 cal in the different brands.

I greatly appreciate all the info, it did provide some helpful info.

Does anyone know if there is a site related to the 25 cal Mrods, Gaunlets, Dar's,
where I can read some more info on each.

Tia,
Don

[Nvreloader]

Guys

Just some things running around my, and I don't know the answers, sorry for the dumb questions,

Would twin, 13/3000 psi air tanks, plus the OEM plenum amount (200cc) be enough air supply,
if used at the same time, for a decent shot amount, in a 25 caliber, running in the medium FPE range?

Meaning the twin 13/3000 tanks with adapter to fit into the OEM plenum tube,
these twin tanks would be reversed, to run underneath/along the side the stock fore/plenum tube,
very similar to Bob's last photo.

The Mrod OEM bbl length is 18-19" long, and the Gaunlet bbl length is 23" long,
The longer bbl length should provide better ballistic's for a 25 cal?

FIRR, Bob did a very similar mod, using twin 90 gram tanks, but I can't remember in which caliber.

Tia,
Don

[rsterne]

Twin 13 CI tanks are going to be fairly heavy.... The QB78 I did that way (twin 88 gr.) was .22 cal.... Yes a longer barrel will make more power, especially if you want the 70+ FPE range.... An 80-100 cc plenum will do for that power of .25 cal.... You probably don't want the entire 215 cc length of an MRod reservoir with the bottle hung at the front.... Just shorten it so that the bottle sits underneath, ahead of the trigger guard....

Bob

[Sbak]

Just a thought, but you can get a .25 Xisico sentry 705 for about $225. I recently purchased one for a small bore bullet shooter. Its quite a good bang for the buck

[Kinetic45^]

No one has asked but what are you hunting?
Note I have taken ( and others have taken too) hogs with a .25 and 33gr pellets but I would heavily discourage 98% of shooters from doing it.  Go to a bigger calibur if you are hunting something that big.

Another question is, how many shots do you really need for that hunting?  Do you really need a rifle with a huge bottle for hunting rabbits or squirrel?

Also, something to consider, if shooting pellets, best accuracy is usually around 850 FPS in most rifles which limits FPE, even if the rifle is capable of more.
And generally, although I have a few exceptions, a choked barrel for pellets does not shoot slugs as well (it can be a gamble, I have a Synrod that shoots both and one that hates slugs)

[Nvreloader]

Thanks Guys

Sbak, Thank you,
I'll look into that AG...........

Carl Thanks,
I am hunting anything from HS thru coyotes/badgers around my 10 acres, or in the outback areas.

I have 2-17 calibers, 2 -22 calibers and decided to add a 25 cal to the stable also,
and one of them is always sitting in the gun rack ready to go, whenever a varmint shows up,
except LL> Leakin Lena 22 cal, which is my tethered starling sniping rifle,
sitting on my movable shooting platform, which can be moved to either end of the room.

I would like enough shots to shot whatever the mag holds, 24 to 32 shots,
my main goal at this time is shooting pellets, I have NOE 25 Hunter mold to start with.
I am attempting to explore/find all my options with a 25 cal, never held or seen one,
I have lots of learning to do about them, but will start with pellets first.

I don't want to get locked into one option and then have to change to explore other options,
via buying another AG later down the road etc...

Attempting to find the best 25 cal AG that will let me explore, via changing just the psi values,
or tanks/bottles and maybe a bbl change for shooting some slugs/bullets at 100 yrds+ on my 300+ yd range etc.

HTH's

Tia,
Don

[Nvreloader]

OK Guys

I don't have a clue...........so here it comes.....................Duck

When I get my 25 cal AG, and after a good shoot in etc, if I don't like it for whatever reason...........

Can it the 25 cal be turned into another 22 cal AG?

I would think so, but I have never held or look at one, so I am not sure,
I would believe that just a change of the bbl and mags, should work?
As all other stuff is interchangeable.......

I am talking about the Gaunlet or Mrod and possibly the Dar.

Your thoughts or suggestions.

Tia,
Don

[Hobbyman2007]

Changing calibers is usually the easy part. Getting a rifle with available parts to do the switch is the hard part.
The .25 cal is just about the most flexible of air rifle calibers , especially if your casting your own pellets . You can punch paper all day or go coyote hunting with enough power for clean kills . JSAR is almost ready to release their new Hawk rifle and the price is quite affordable .