Benjamin Trail NP 22 Cal. Break In Accuracy Problems Advice Needed

[mdybus]

I purchased a Benjamin Trail NP 22 cal air rifle to help my landlord get rid of some squirrels. Out of more than 100 shots Squirrel reduction of 16.
My first impression after shooting the first pellet was Benjamin could have installed a better trigger. After searching for information I purchased and installed a  "Charlie Da Tuna" after market trigger which made a big difference.
At 25 yards my shot groups were all over a 12 to 18 inch circle some high, some low, some left, and some right. I went back to the discussion boards and found that an air rifle needs a break in period of  at least 750 pellets. During the break in I tried various pellets trying  for a pellet that gave the best group.
After well over 1,000 pellets the groupings were still all over the place. In addition the scope delivered with the air rifle required constant adjustment. I could get a six inch group at 25 yards then the next group with pellets out of the same tin would shoot high sometimes low sometimes left sometimes right requiring me to re zero the scope.
Back to the discussion groups and ended up purchasing a UTG 3-9X40 scope. My best groups are now down to 4 inches. However this new scope once zeroed in seems so far to be holding without further adjustment.
I'm now considering the problem is either the pellets or this air rifle needs to be returned as defective.
I am a bit frustrated with these groupings from 25 yards I'm getting with the following pellets :
1 Vortex Supreme 14.66 grains 4 inch group the pellet fits tight into the breech.
2 H&N Sport 21.14 grains 4 inch groups the pellet fits tight into breech.
3 Crossman Premier 14.3 grains 5 inch groups the pellet fits loose into breech.
4 H$N Sport Field Trophy Target copper coated 14.66 grains 6 to 7 inch groups the pellets vary some loose some tight into breech.
Are there better pellets on the market for this air rifle any one can recommend?
Should I return this air rifle as defective?
Thanks for any advice

Mike

[Roadworthy]

The rifle MAY be defective or the shooter may be inexperienced.  If you opt to return the rifle remember to remove the after market trigger and spring.  You are unlikely to ever see that particular rifle again.  Before you go that route practice a bit more with the gun.  Pay careful attention to EXACTLY how you hold it.  Are you shooting it off a rest or offhand?  Shot off a rest that gun should have no problem grouping under an inch at twenty yards.  With practice and the proper pellet you should eventually get half that.  I generally put the back of my hand on the rest and lay the barrel on my palm.  Pull the trigger straight back and exactly the same way every time.  An airgun is not a firearm and a different technique is required.  You can shoot a firearm like an airgun but the reverse is not necessarily true.  Your problems seem way beyond pellet selection.  Yes, it is very possible to get a defective air gun brand new.  It is also possible for a new shooter to not realize how picky airguns are regarding how to hold and shoot them.  It's an acquired skill require patience, practice, and attention to detail.

[mdybus]

Good advice you've given.
I am an experienced shooter although not with air rifles. I was trained by the USMC at Parris Island and during my four year enlistment qualified Expert on the M14 and when on Marine Barracks duty Expert with an M1. I pride myself on tight groups., thus my frustration with what I'm going through with this particular rifle. BTW I am using a bench rest for this. :-)

[mobilehomer]

That explains a lot. You can forget almost everything you learned at Parris Island when it comes to shooting a breakbarrel. A breakbarrel has much different recoil than a powder burner, more like a semi-auto pistol. Backward, then forward.
The important things to remember -
1 Try different holds(research artillery hold) Shoot at least 3 pellets per hold variation.
2 Consistency!!
3 Follow through. Try to watch the pellet strike the target.
4 PRACTICE!!!

[Robert 5mm]

I also just bought a .22 Benjamin NP2 Trail ( Stealth SBD ). I cleaned the barrel before using, it was dirty black on the cleaning pads. I tightened the three stock screws as tight as possible ( I actually replaced them with M5x16 stainless allen socket screws with two washers each ). I use a Beeman 4x32 scope rather than the one which can with the rifle, and have it on as tight as I can get. I group better than 1 inch at 25 yds with Crosman Premier HP 14.3g. I shot a Gamo TS-22 ( 22g ) heavy pellet and I think it touched the plastic SBD exit hole and deflected at least 2 ft upwards at 10 yds. After slightly enlarging the holes in the plastic silencer, I now am grouping with the Gamo ST-22 similar to the Premiers at 1 inch.
Hope my experience is helpful to you.
Robert 5mm

[mdybus]

 Roadworthy,
As you I first cleaned the barrel with the same result. I was wondering about the black plastic ring at the muzzle with the hex hole was the cause due to the way the pellets are flying. I first purchased the .25 cal for knockdown. there is a plague of coyotes here in SE GA  I was entertaining the thought of eliminating a few. After reading that the only difference between the .177, .22, and .25 was the barrels and the power piston was the same I returned the .25 with the heavier ammo for the .22my thoughts were with the same force behind the projectile the .22 would have a higher velocity. The .25's barrel shroud rotated easily when I received the .22 the shroud was so tight it would not rotate. I contacted the service dept. and was informed that I should loosen the muzzle cap with a hex wrench. I tried, the wrench would turn but the cap not. I then tried a metric wrench but that was too small and had no effect. I used a vice grip to loosen the cap. Bottom line for this rifle is I've had enough practice. expense for a gazillion different pellets, and frustration  since June of 2018. I contacted crossman today, removed the after market trigger, installed the old trigger, removed the new scope, packaged it into the original box along with the defective scope that came with it. I'm UPSing it to crossman tomorrow. At least I learned a few new cuss words with this experience. lol
I'll post an update with the final outcome.
On another note I'm off to check out what an artillery hold is. Never too old to learn a new trick.

Best Regards to both of you that replied

Mike

[only1harry]

Wow after a few hours of posting and asking if you should return it, you returned within a few hours. 

OK well, here are my thoughts - since you went from 12"-18" groups to 4" groups after changing the scope, this leads me to believe you had a bad scope or you have movement in the rings.  Now that you were getting more consistent 4" groups and had put a lot of shots through the gun, the stock screws had most likely come loose, or were loose to begin with.  In most spring guns the stock screws come loose every few hundred shots, so unless you use loctite blue, and aftermarket screws (screw cups) and washer(s).
So the fact that the groups got better, even though still not great, logic dictates that 1 of the issues was the scope and/or rings, scope mount, etc.  The other could be a number of things such as a bad barrel, loose stock screws, bad piston seal, etc.

Keep us updated on what Crosman says or does with the gun.  Moving the thread to the Crosman gate where it belongs.

Harry

[Old Corps]

Mike-First of all welcome to the forum! As you can see I've got a few air rifles and out of the ones listed I've only had one that refused to group worth a  d*m* after pursuing all the "fixes" you'll find suggested in this forum. It was the Benjamin Summit NP2 listed below. I was ready to throw it in the trash. Finally called Crosman and they told me to send the rifle back and describe the problem in a note, which I did. It was a hassle but within 10 days a new replacement arrived that grouped under an inch @ 25 yards--no 750 round break in required. JMHO, but yes, shooting an air rifle is different than a PB but it's not that big of a deal. Most of the time just a lighter hold is all that's necessary. The other common problem is screws that aren't tight. Betcha you get a new rifle back which performs like it should. Crosman's service is indeed excellent.

Ed
Btw, Another OLD jarhead here that also qualified Expert with my beloved M-14. Carried one with a full auto selector in Nam. Ahhh, now those were the days....... Semper Fi my brother.

[mdybus]

WOW! I've been at this "getting a good group" since June of 2018 I am frustrated to the max. I can clearly see how I must appear not waiting for more advice. Oh well. For the record though, I did not return the rifle to Crossman, I had it ready to ship.

Yesterday evening for the first time in my 70 years on this planet I heard the term "Artillery Hold". After hearing I followed the advice given here and hit the internet, viewed and digested a few videos on the subject and went to sleep.

The first thing this morning after my walk and coffee I unpacked the rifle, put my scope back on, and braving the 37 degree temperature outside I set up my bench rest and went to it using the artillery grip with three different pellets. Check out the photos I've attached.

The artillery hold, although sceptical at first, really impressed me with the change in groups with the crossman pellets out performing the other two.
I fabricated a better front rest than the diet mug 12 pack and went to it with the crossman pellets. I barely touched the fore stock with my fingers. rested the butt against my shoulder touching but with minimal pressure, and lightly pulled the trigger. Numbers 1 and 2 were before readjusting the scope. 3,4,5,and 6 were after with no further adjustments to the scope.
 as you can see #3 had 2 low #4 one high #5 1 really high into group #2 and group #6 2 high and left.

If the inaccuracy is due to the break barrel syndrome of the piston doing its thing what I cannot fathom is why the errors are not consistently either high or low but random.

I'll wait until Monday before deciding whether or not to do the return. I do not want to pay the shipping for the return and definitely do not want to go through another break in.

Mike

     

[mdybus]

Old Corps,
SD or PI? I'm a PI graduate Sept. 1965 platoon 291. I love the M-14 I had just about the same as you with bi-pods attached. The pods really helped when on full automatic. I got lucky and rotated back to the big PX from 1/3 when we were in Oki for regrouping. 1/3 was issued the new M-16s and hit hill 881 in may or june of 1968 with 2/3 and I think the walking dead 1/9. The 16s were jamming and collectively they lost a battalion and a half. A lot of Marines I've spoken with said they were trading their 16s to office pogs for 14s.
Nice to meet you here Brother.
Semper Fi
Mike

[Old Corps]

SD Hollywood Marine here. We just sat on the beach sippin' pina coladas......... Yer a young boot my friend. Platoon 163, graduated 12 November 1963. I was in Nam very early, 65-66 and we were very happy NOT to have the M-16 jamomatics. A lot of guys were lost because of their early unreliability. I was a replacement sent to Mike 3/11 which later became M-3/12. I was a radio operator and when I 1st arrived they had no weapon to issue me. I figured I needed to grab one if someone else was hit but fortunately that didn't occur. A few days later a few weapons showed up and they told me I could have the M14 auto or a 1911 .45. That wuz a no-brainer for me even though humping with a PRC-25. Got assigned to a FO team, lots of excitement waiting for one of those 155s to be a short round, coming overhead sounding like a box car in the air.  Anyhoo, enough of the old fart war stories.....
Looks to me like your Benjamin is shooting about like my returned one was. Totally inconsistent. Repack that sucker and send it back! Great to have you aboard, a really great bunch of guys here and lotsa old farts as well.
S/F
Ed

[uglymike]

mdybus, may I humbly suggest you ship that back and consider the RWS 34P on sale now at Cabelas, $150 shipped. It'll put 5 shots you can cover with a dime @ 25 meters easily and after using the T06 trigger, you'll throw rocks at that NP2.  This is a steal, they go for +$300 anywhere else. Look in the Bargain Gate, there's a thread there.   

[mdybus]

I checked it out in the bargain gate. Followed the link to cabelas and ran away.  The price of the .177 was as you stated a steal however a .22 cal. is double the price.  I returned the Benjamin to Crossman this afternoon if it does not work out as Old Corps suggests it will I'll definately think seriously about the RWS 22 cal. I'm also considering, since I no longer am living within city limits, a rim fire .22
Thanks for your humble suggestion

[smellslikepeople]

My benjamin trail np2 required tons of work before it shot good. I do think it was worth it but it was very frustrating.  The main problem was the piston seal has a tear and was causing the exact same problem with accuracy.  I replaced the seal and that helped a ton

[mdybus]

Smellslikepeople, I'll soon find out. I sent the rifle to crossman yesterday and am now awaiting a replacement. Your input and a few of the others gives me the feeling  I made the correct decision with a return in place of the frustrated chasing my tail feeling I had.     I'll post back on this topic after the replacement arrives. I'm used to being the best shooter on the block. Having said that this particular rifle has humbled me. LOL

[Insanity]

I have been working on my ruger to get tighter groups but I didn't have near that issues with accercay. I took it apart to find the barrel pivot screw was loose tightened it and sanded down the part of the stock where they line up for maintenance and tightening. I now think my issues are linked to my abilities and pellets.

[TF89]

I have found that there a number of issues that can happen which people have mentioned already.  One area that I had issues with is shroud tension.

I think with your trail you have the round shroud and not the SBD style.  If you have the round barrel shroud what can and did happen to me is that it was over tightened.  When cocking the gun the shroud would loosen so I tightened down rather tightly which took a sweet shooting rifle and made it a shotgun.  For me the shroud is just snug.  So when shooting if the shroud starts to turn during cocking I just give a give it a light tighten. 

Your gun may be different.  Barrel tension affects all guns to some extent.

I should also say this, you need to find what pellet your rifle likes.  All guns, specifically air guns have a decided preference when it comes to pellets.  My gun would shoot 1" groups @30 yards  with some and I could get 3" groups with others.  I finally found that JSB 8.4 exacts could shoot 12 pellets inside a nickle.  It was hold sensitive and required a loose hold.


You are getting 4" groups which is not a great a start.  There could be something wrong with the barrel or it could be barrel tension.

[smellslikepeople]

From my experience crosman has great customer service.  They have always went above and beyond to help me out so hopefully you have the same experience I did.  I buy their products because I know they have always backed them.  Same with hatsan. Now gamo is a whole different story

[mikeyb]

mdybus... Hoping this helps you decide what to do next. Maybe a .22 rimfire is a good option for you?

Most people don't understand WHY springers can be so inaccurate. It seems especially frustrating for expert PB snipers who are accustomed to precision groups at 300+ yards.

When you get a trigger release on a PB, the firing pin detonates the primer in ~0.002s and the bullet leaves the muzzle less than 0.001 second after that. Trigger to muzzle exit is about 0.003s (3/1000 seconds). When the shooter feels the recoil of the shot, the bullet has just exited the muzzle and is committed to its path. There is no significant time for the shooter or rifle to drift off target and experienced shooters can get PRECISE shot placement at very long ranges.

A springer mechanism/shot-cycle is MUCH slower. At trigger release, the spring-piston STARTS its journey down the compression tube. You "feel" the piston launching forward as rifle recoil similar to the bullet exiting the muzzle recoil on a PB rifle. This is deceptively different than the PB since ANY shooter/rifle motion here still drastically affects the POI.

About 0.150s AFTER the trigger release, when the piston is a fraction of an inch away from slamming to a sudden stop, the air pressure in the compression tube is high enough to START the pellet moving down the barrel.

The odd forward "springer" recoil at ~0.150s is the piston slowing down and comming to a stop, hopefully on the high pressure cushion of air behind the pellet.

Once the pellet begins its acceleration, it takes another 0.003s before it finally exits the muzzle.

Shooter motion and significant rifle vibrations are all happening BEFORE the pellet ever leaves the barrel! THIS is why springers are so difficult to shoot accurately. The rifles natural vibrations must be supported (not resisted) in the EXACT same way and the shooter must be supremely precise and consistent with aim, hold position, grip pressure, AND FOLLOW THROUGH for each and every shot to attain good accuracy.

If all that wasn't difficult enough, ADD the following common springer issues that also affect accuracy:

1) Each springer (even between the same models) may have different pellets that it "likes and dislikes".
2) Stock and pivot screws frequently loosen which changes the rifles vibration modes.
3) Scopes and scope mounts frequently slip/move from the double recoil.
4) Scope internals can bounce around or shift, due to the double recoil again, changing POI.

Many view the effort (long learning curve and significant trigger time) needed to shoot springers well as too great. I completely understand. For me, the challenge and enjoyment of shooting springers IS worth that extra effort.

Best wishes

[only1harry]

Very good descriptions of what happens before the pellet leaves the barrel Michael. 

I would like to elaborate on how important #3 on the list of issues is, because it is often overlooked - Almost all my accuracy and inconsistency issues disappeared, or diminished substantially once I installed BKL 260-D7 1-piece (6-screw) scope mounts on all my Springers long ago, and spend some more $$ on half-way decent scopes to put it mildly.  I can't stress enough how important it is to have a solid scope mount and rings to eliminate slippage, and a good scope that can withstand the double recoil.  The slightest movement on the 11mm dovetail or inside the rings will keep changing your POI.  People tend to go cheap and install $9 rings on their Springers and expect them to do the job on a $300 springer.  And let's not overlook the many $20-$30 scopes spring gun owners are using and complaining they have accuracy issues.  In the powder burner world they say your optics should cost at least 2x what the rifle costs.  I am not saying you should spend the same for optics for your Springer, but spending a few bucks more for a good spring gun rated scope and a good 1-piece scope mount goes a long way and will save you from many headaches right from the start.

Part of your due diligence when shopping for a spring piston rifle is researching the scope and scope mount/rings you are going to be purchasing.  See what others are using and go with quality proven parts, not the cheapest, or that eBay low-end &^^& that costs the same as 1 or 2 cups of coffee at Starbucks.  You will sleep better at night, trust me.  Cheap rings and scopes are for your $30 Crosman 760 or Daisy recoiless pumpers and some CO2 guns, not your spring piston rifle.

Harry