Next PCP: AF, Sumatra, MRod or save for Matador?

[HolidaySHRIMP]

Hello everyone! Greetings again, and yes I'm shopping for a second PCP rifle now (the dark side is too strong!). Currently I have a .22 Discovery with a TKO 6.5" LDC (VERY quiet - Live in a condo and upstairs neighbors are old and don't say anything) and hand pump. I will be buying a 4500psi 88cf tank next in anticipation for my next rifle.

I'll be mainly doing some plinking, target shooting, and small game hunting.

I'm looking for a gun that meets the following criteria:

• 1) Can fire the lighter .22 pellets either 15.9 or 18.1 0.22 caliber JSB's for 80+ shots in the 900-950 range (IS THIS EVEN POSSIBLE?) Ok 60+ shots is acceptable, but 80-110 would be sweet.
• 2) Is QUIET and neighborhood friendly. Looking for something in Marauder or Discovery + LDC quiet. I have old neighbors that live upstairs and they are nosy. My Disco+TKO LDC sounds like a fart when it shoots. No suspicion from them ever!
• 3) I want it to have the LDC removable so when I go to the range it doesn't draw any red flags or questions about the obvious LDC. Shroud with baffles should be ok as it's built into the rifle. I would prefer it to be LOUD when I remove the LDC so at the range I don't feel like a sissy next to the 7.62's firing off (LOL)
• 4) My price range is around $700. Willing to go up and down a little. I already have a scope that I can live with. A Leapers 3-9x32 Golden Image AO Mildot
• 5) Would like gun to be able to shoot 1/2" at 50 yards.
• 6) If tuned for the 25ish FPE low end, is there a configuration that will allow me to use the power adjuster to bring it up to 44FPE on the fly, or would it require me to disassemble and re-tuning with a chrony to get it up there?
• 7) I will be shooting from 10-40 yards at home, and 50/100 at the range so I would like to know I can shoot 100 yards with a dial of a knob with some authority.
• 8 ) Weight/length is not much of an issue as I won't be hauling it around in the woods.

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Is a Condor or Talon my best bet? I know barrel length, hammer, and valve will all make the difference in what I'm looking for. Talon Tunes (I'm already in love with Tony's work) or other tuner? RLAirGun? Mac1?  I like the Stubby's look a lot (because EdGun Matador is what I REALLY want but $1600 is crazy.... right now). I've seen some Condors for sale and pictures of other AF rifles. Is it me or does the air tank look like it's bending downwards from where you screw it in? Does that area bend over time because the weight of the air tank? Looks like a pretty brittle point in the construction of the rifle. If any owners can comment on that also it would be great.  If an AF rifle is right for me, which one should I start with? I like the stubby stock so if any of those will work as a good starting point, do I need the Extreme or Hi-Flo version? If I can get all my criteria met with the least hassle all the better. I'm almost positive I can't get all of that out the box.

Second option is a Sumatra 2500 500cc (Dan Brothers would vouch for this one!  ), but this good is SUPER loud from what everyone tells me even with an LDC.  I'm ok with keeping my Discovery for shooting at home, but I would rather consolidate my air rifle needs if possible, as I can save money on my next rifle by selling my current.

A third option I am looking at is a Marauder (Talon Tunes black one is the SEX, but probably 8-10 week waiting period) but I am really a fan of the tactical look of the AF rifles. If I got an Mrod I'd buy the $300 TerryX AR tactical stock for it ($$$ for just looks!!!).  I know this forum loves Benjmain guns, but with good reason.  I've had awesome time with Crossman when I needed to order a new barrel for my Discovery, and have no doubt if I had any problems they would be on it right away if I called.  

I do not have a chrony (YET) but I see one over the horizon for me if the need arises.  If none of these options fit me well I think I may just save up for the EdGun Matador and pray I can even buy one when I save up the cash.  This is the gun that I really desire, but the price point is crazy.

Thanks everyone! Sorry for the long post but I like to ask specific questions to make sure I get specific answers.  

Perhaps I should contact a tuner and see if my needs are even feasible and see what they can do for me.

[Nomadic Pirate]

Sumatra, Sumatra, Sumatra.

I was shooting mine in the middle of the night just last night and with the Neil Clauge LDC she is very, very quiet, and mine is set at high power, if you set a Sumatra at 20 some FPE she would be basically silent with Neil LDC, than you can set the weel at full power in about one second and you have 80-90 FPE

[HolidaySHRIMP]

Can the power wheel dial the power down that low and up that high without having to change hammers, springs, or valves or anything crazy?  If so that's insane!  Definitely thinking the Sumatra is a great fit for my criteria except on looks   If I get one I'm going to duracoat that whole thing matte black!  Maybe even try to dremel off the hunting scene and sand it smooth. LOL Don't mind the repeater part because it reminds me of the wild west, I just like black simple guns.

I'm pretty sure I'll want the 0.22" for more shot count as I'll be shooting around 16gr pellets (15.9 JSB and 16gr Predators) and maybe some 18gr JSB for longer shots.

[Nomadic Pirate]

Yes it is that easy, .....maybe not the best efficiency but for what you wanna do it will be just fine, at low FPE with the 500cc you probably get a crazy ammount of shots.

[Nomadic Pirate]

sorry, the 80-90 FPE was for the .25, probably 65-70 for the .22 I would think

[DanBrothers]

Love those Sumatras....

You can lead a  horse to water.... but you can't make him drink.... LOL

[patton1]

Me, I would save for an Edgun. I have owned / own the Condor & Mrod .22 & .25. Out of the 3 I would say Mrod .25,, but it won't give you the shot count your looking for. Never shot the Sumatra so can't comment but, I've never seen anybody post on their accuracy out to 75 -100 yrds.

Ted in Madison (youtube) swears by the edgun and has video of the accuracy/shot count to back it up....170 yds ??

Any gun can make power but is it accurate out to 100 + yards?

Start saving

[HolidaySHRIMP]

@Patton1 it's because of Ted's videos that I first fell in love with the EdGun!   Love the look of the gun and how exotic it looks.

[jeeperatt1]

I'm dying for a Sumatra personally!

[DanBrothers]

Patton... I love those Edguns as well... but after your post.. it made me wonder what my sumatra would do at 100 yds... soooo.... just before dark I set up a target across my neigbhor's yard... who wasn't home..LOL.. and drove my truck over to his house and shot across to my big tree, which was a lasered 102 yds... and shot  three quick groups of 6 shots... off the hood of my truck... CPremiers... Predators... and Kodiaks.... and the kodiaks did the best... = 5 shots inside 2"... and one low shot.. the last one.. is 1/2" lower..... so they were all inside 2 1/2"... which was good to me... with my shabby setup and running out of air... the air in the gun was only up to about 110-130 bars... which is ... I think around 1500-1800 psi... I think... need to figure that out better.... hate that bar stuff... LOL.   Anyways... this sumatra should do better with a full tank of air and a stable rest... but for now.. I just had to do it....

the other ammo groups were right at 3".... but it wasn't really a good test because the air was low to start out with... and those kodiaks need power and air... and you can see by this kodiak group, that the last 3 shots grouped a tad lower than the other three... which says ... low air... even the other two ammo groups strung  out high to low... not much wider than 1 1/2"...

Edit... I just realized that I only had the  power wheel setting at 6... which is about half way.. one knotch before the black dot on the lowest setting.. but the crony said it was shooting 734 fps at that setting...with  kodiaks... I rolled the power wheel up to it's max... and it shot 894 fps... which isn't bad since the air power was so low... but I should of had it on high power for my test... it may have shot better...

[Tpatner412]

Good luck getting an Edgun as they are not being imported at the moment. Maybe you should look into a rainstorm. That at least gives you 65-70 good shots

[Nomadic Pirate]

Sumatras are well known to be supremely accurate, 100 yards plus hunting with this gun is nothing to it,........both my Sumatras are way, way more accurate than my Maurader .25 ever was

[RayK]

My buddy has both the 25 Sumatra and the 25 Marauder (which I also have).

The Sumatra is more powerful, more adjustable, and more accurate at 100 yards than the Marauder.

The only negative on the Sumatra is it is very loud without something on the end.  The tip of the muzzle is threaded.  If you can buy a LDC that gets it quiet, you have a real winner.  I'd get the 500 cc model to get good shot count.

Ray

[HolidaySHRIMP]

Starting to think I could just mod the *(&^ out of my Disco and 75% of the spare parts I need to build a second factory discovery and then sell it before I buy a new gun. LOL

After seeing Rocker1's new rig I want to buy a repeater high breach, katana stock (duracoat matte black), MRod trigger assembly, & Marauder shroud.  I already have a spare .177 barrel and bolt/O-ring from my .22 conversion so all I would need is the air tube and all the parts along that horizontal axis (hammer, spring, cap, valve, fill port, etc).  Need to call Crossman and see how much those parts run and if it will be a net gain for me to do so and sell the spare Discovery and get to keep a nice mini-Marauder.

BUT.... that Sumatra 2500 500cc is looking more and more sexy every time I look at it though.  I want to get a giant belt buckle and shoot that thing!  Girlfriend says I'm turning into an Asian cowboy. LOL

[Rico14]

Good luck getting an Edgun as they are not being imported at the moment. Maybe you should look into a rainstorm. That at least gives you 65-70 good shots

I received an email from Tony, the USA rep for Edgun. Standard Edguns are now being sold in the US for $1650, but there is about a 2 month wait

[DanBrothers]

After your girlfriend gets her hands on that belt buckle looking sumatra receiver... she'll leave yours alone....

[Nightstalker]

Well I agree with Manny as I love my .25 Sumatra 500cc! I also Love my highly moddable Condor .25 as well.My Sumatra is more Powerful,,but the Condor's not far behind,and she's just Super Accurate,(and an Edgun can't be anymore accurate than this Condor) as with Barracuda's at my 50 yard target,(Computer side panel)she just put 5 shots through and made 3/8's hole.I can't imagine paying 1650 $'s for a single shot edgun when my Condors more Powerful and like my Sumatra,is a lot cheaper than a Edgun,(but that's a personal opinion relying on the person buying).

JMHO of course,,and everyone's different and prefers different as well.

Thanks

[butthead]

This thread got me thinking again about the Edgun Matadors. Something about that rifle that just keeps calling me. I have a thing about good looking rifles. I had sent an E-Mail to Tony earlier in the year asking about availability and after an answer of October I put it out of my mind until I read this thread. Just for kicks I E-Mailed Tony again asking what the new date was and much to my surprize he had some in stock. Sent him a money order before I left on vacation and it was waiting for me when I returned. I have not had a chance to shoot it yet but what a good looking rifle it is. I dry fired it and it is as quiet as a mouse compared to my M-rod. I will be shoping for optics and ordering some pellets in the next few days and cant wait to get it loaded up.

[rsterne]

950 fps with 15.9 gr. is 32 FPE and 900 with 18.1 gr. is 32.5 FPE.... Call it 32 times 80 shots = 2560 FPE.... At 60 shots it's 1920 FPE.... Most .22 cal PCPs in that power range run about 1.25 FPE/CI so you would be looking at roughly 2048 CI of air needed for 80 shots or 1536 for 60 shots.... Assuming you can fill to 3000 psi and shoot down to 1500 that's 1500/14.5 = 103 Bar of pressure drop, so you would need about a 20 CI tank (328cc) for 80 shots and about a 15 CI tank (246cc) for 60 shots....

The MRod tank is only 13 CI (215 cc) so there is no way you can get that shot count / power combination from it.... Figure at least 250 cc for 60 shots and 330 cc for 80 shots.... That's assuming you can use a full 1500 psi range as well.... If you can only use 1000 psi, then add 50% to those tank sizes.... Then you have to figure out if the power range you need is available, and how to get it.... Many guns are adjustable for power, but not only do you have to make the adjustment, you have to use the appropriate fill and refill pressures to get the bell curve correct.... Unless the gun is regulated, you are unlikely to be able to just "dial it up" and see the full potential of the gun....

Bob

[Twohsieh]

I have the mrod .25,  the sumatra 2500 500cc .25 and the edgun matador .22,  i use the edgun the. Most followed by the mrod, then the sumatra.  I think the mrod gets used more han the sumatra is because i dont yet have an ldc for it.  The edgun is by far my favorite.  It is superior in every way except that it is a single shot.