Author Topic: scope torque (Read 3079 times))

Hayfoot · « **on:** November 27, 2018, 01:39:54 PM »

Greetings all...
I just bought a new scope... and actually started reading the manual.
regarding installation, the indicated torques for installation are 25 INCH/pounds on the T15 top rings, and 68 INCH/pounds on the 1/2 nut crossbolts.
So... now I need to get the appropriate wrenches.
or do I?
is this (yes I'm a noob) the standard setting used for all scope installations, so I should have these tools anyway... or are these numbers scope/mount dependent?
Thanks ~

Roadworthy · « **Reply #1 on:** November 27, 2018, 02:24:21 PM »

The numbers are mount dependent. For my one piece dovetail mount Hawke recommended thirty inch pounds on the dovetail and fifteen on the scope straps. Yes, I have a torque wrench. Wheeler is probably your best deal and I think theirs even includes bits. I have the older needle deflection type.

bandg · « **Reply #2 on:** November 27, 2018, 02:51:43 PM »

Certainly would recommend a torque wrench. I have several for use on guns and bikes. Wheeler makes good ones as noted. In a pinch, some recommend using only the short leg of common allen wrenches to tighten top straps on scope rings (avoid scope damage) but that doesn't help much with screws. Probably much less critical on the mount base. Get a torque wrench.

HunterWhite · « **Reply #3 on:** November 27, 2018, 05:20:47 PM »

I like the Wheeler Fat wrench.
The digital one goes down to 15 ounce inches, the regular one goes down to 10 ounce inches.

Hayfoot · « **Reply #4 on:** November 27, 2018, 05:49:29 PM »

Thanks for all of the replies... yeah, I think I'll spend the money on torque wrenches rather than risk damage.
I looked at sets, and it might be cheaper to get "torque" handles... preset to 25 and 68in-lbs, then also get a torque screwdriver for the smaller precision jobs.
I was wondering if these were like 'universal' settings, but they seem specific to this particular scope & mount.
hmmmm.
live and learn.
is there like a normal range? or do most of you guys use 'finger tight' to mount most scopes?
cheers pals

nervoustrigger · « **Reply #5 on:** November 27, 2018, 06:11:24 PM »

Normal range? It depends on the size of the fasteners and the base material of the rings but I would say the most common values are about 15 in*lbs for ring caps (M3 fasteners) and 30 in*lbs for the base (M4 fasteners). That would be for threads into aluminum. You could use more torque for steel rings but the 15 in*lbs is probably about as high as you'd want to go for the caps for fear of denting the scope tube. However you may consider using more for the base if the fastener is larger and/or the mount is steel.

Bottom line is it's a good idea to consult the manufacturer's instructions for suggested torque.

Back_Roads · « **Reply #6 on:** November 27, 2018, 07:06:01 PM »

I have been torquing things most of my life, one recommendation is after a short test run / break in, go ahead and re torque them, to insure it did not settle out some with vibration.

Hayfoot · « **Reply #7 on:** November 27, 2018, 07:26:03 PM »

Quote from: nervoustrigger on November 27, 2018, 06:11:24 PM

.... 15 in*lbs for ring caps (M3 fasteners) and 30 in*lbs for the base (M4 fasteners). That would be for threads into aluminum. ....

Bottom line is it's a good idea to consult the manufacturer's instructions for suggested torque.

wow... what a difference. had to reread to make sure mine said 68in/lbs.
thanks for the answers! it helps.
...and I'll be sure to retest the torque after putting a few rounds through. :-)
Mike

superchikn · « **Reply #8 on:** November 27, 2018, 08:35:30 PM »

Quote from: Hayfoot on November 27, 2018, 05:49:29 PM

Thanks for all of the replies... yeah, I think I'll spend the money on torque wrenches rather than risk damage.
I looked at sets, and it might be cheaper to get "torque" handles... preset to 25 and 68in-lbs, then also get a torque screwdriver for the smaller precision jobs.
I was wondering if these were like 'universal' settings, but they seem specific to this particular scope & mount.
hmmmm.
live and learn.
is there like a normal range? or do most of you guys use 'finger tight' to mount most scopes?
cheers pals

Hey Mike
what are the torque handles you mention?
If by torque screwdriver you are referring to the below or another brand of the same that should be all you need.

Hayfoot · « **Reply #9 on:** November 28, 2018, 12:37:30 AM »

Hi Ray,
thanks for the suggestion. I was looking at this 'handle' that is set for one torque setting:

but I'm also looking at a set like you suggest, but for lower 'precision' settings, cuz the scope also mentions things like 'torque setting on the clutch housing'... not that I plan on messing with it too much.
mostly i'm looking at what I need to mount it, only.
M

nced · « **Reply #10 on:** November 28, 2018, 11:56:03 AM »

Quote from: Hayfoot on November 27, 2018, 07:26:03 PM

Quote from: nervoustrigger on November 27, 2018, 06:11:24 PM
.... 15 in*lbs for ring caps (M3 fasteners) and 30 in*lbs for the base (M4 fasteners). That would be for threads into aluminum. ....

Bottom line is it's a good idea to consult the manufacturer's instructions for suggested torque.

wow... what a difference. had to reread to make sure mine said 68in/lbs.
thanks for the answers! it helps.
...and I'll be sure to retest the torque after putting a few rounds through. :-)
Mike

Yup.....................

Matter of fact.....I've damaged BKL scope mounts by repeatedly using 40in/lbs torque on the base screws ( 5in/lbs more than the BKL recommended max) trying to keep the things from sliding on my HW95 dovetail........

When using only 10in/lbs torque on the BKL top straps (BKL doesn't list a torque spec for the "strap screws") my scope slipped, however using 15in/lbs torque on the top straps of the two piece BKL mounts dented my scope tubes (notice the destinctive "double dents")...........

bandg · « **Reply #11 on:** November 28, 2018, 12:14:20 PM »

Looks like maybe 12.5 in/lbs would have been in order

. Not funny to damage a tube (I've done it myself) but I wonder if the scope makers might have recommendations for torque as well as the mount makers? Larger diameter scopes with more area and possibly stronger tubes might be better?

eeler1 · « **Reply #12 on:** November 28, 2018, 12:21:45 PM »

Ed brings up a good point, in that springers may require the max. Pneumatics may be less susceptible to shifting even if you lighten up a bit, so hitting the exact torque recommendation is perhaps less critical. I use the fat wrench because I just can’t resist turning a screw, in fact any screw, just a bit tighter, sometimes with bad results.

Hayfoot · « **Reply #13 on:** November 28, 2018, 12:21:57 PM »

Wow... so glad I asked... I never knew there was such a wide difference in torque settings!
Sure the heck don't want to ruin a scope.
Thanks guys!

bandg · « **Reply #14 on:** November 28, 2018, 12:25:00 PM »

And all of us have different hand strength. I likewise have messed up plenty of things trying to get them just a bit tighter. Get a torque wrench. Wheeler Fat Wrench (mechanical or digital) works well and isn't particularly expensive.

nced · « **Reply #15 on:** November 28, 2018, 03:26:18 PM »

Quote from: bandg on November 28, 2018, 12:14:20 PM

Looks like maybe 12.5 in/lbs would have been in order . Not funny to damage a tube (I've done it myself) but I wonder if the scope makers might have recommendations for torque as well as the mount makers? Larger diameter scopes with more area and possibly stronger tubes might be better?

I talked to Vortex customer service concerning the Diamondback scope tube damage and was told to use 10-13in/lbs torque!

I don't know if the reply was legitimate but I know that even 15in/lbs of "top strap screw torque" didn't hold my relatively heavy 3-12x50 Optisan Viper with 30mm tube set in a BKL one piece mount on my .177 HW95.........

Here's the torque driver I use..........

Anywhoo....after my issues with scope tube damage and slipping scopes all my BKL mounts were replaced.

Hayfoot · « **Reply #16 on:** November 28, 2018, 04:27:41 PM »

So with all these wide ranges possible... what about a set like these:
http://www.valdada.com/30mm-x6-med-tactical-rings/

I checked all over the website and they have no torque settings. Finger tight? or based on scope tube?
or is it less of a problem with picatinny type mounts?
M

oops: just found it on their FAQ page:
Valdada Optics recommends 15 INCH POUNDS for our ring caps. Our heavy duty V-Tac rings with 1/2" nuts or 7/16" nuts can be tightened to 55-65 INCH POUNDS on picatinny platforms

although they then add:
but that is a MIL-SPEC standard and not necessary for standard applications. Usually after the nuts are finger tight, additional force of about 90 degrees is more than enough to hold your rings to your bases.

Hayfoot · « **Reply #17 on:** November 28, 2018, 04:38:28 PM »

Quote from: superchikn on November 27, 2018, 08:35:30 PM

Hey Mike
what are the torque handles you mention?
... that should be all you need.

Hey Ray, after a 2nd look that's probably exactly what I'll get. Thanks for the link!

nced · « **Reply #18 on:** November 28, 2018, 08:24:57 PM »

Quote from: Hayfoot on November 28, 2018, 04:27:41 PM

So with all these wide ranges possible... what about a set like these:
http://www.valdada.com/30mm-x6-med-tactical-rings/

I checked all over the website and they have no torque settings. Finger tight? or based on scope tube?
or is it less of a problem with picatinny type mounts?
M

oops: just found it on their FAQ page:
Valdada Optics recommends 15 INCH POUNDS for our ring caps. Our heavy duty V-Tac rings with 1/2" nuts or 7/16" nuts can be tightened to 55-65 INCH POUNDS on picatinny platforms

although they then add:
but that is a MIL-SPEC standard and not necessary for standard applications. Usually after the nuts are finger tight, additional force of about 90 degrees is more than enough to hold your rings to your bases.

Personally I'd start with about 12in/lbs top strap screw torque since there are 6 of the little suckers and see if the scope shifts. If the scope doesn't shift then I'd leave it at 12in/lbs, but if the scope shifts then I'd use the recommended 15 in/lbs. With a top strap as wide as that mount I'm pretty sure that there would be no scope tube damage using the recommended torque.

Now the recommended base screw torque is a puzzle to me, especially since it's a Picatinny. My HW95 only has receiver dovetails for mounting a scope so I'm currently using an UTG Universal adapter and Weaver Quad Lock rings to the HW95. To keep my Weaver rings solidly attached to the Weaver/Picatinny adapter I don't need to use anything close to 55in/lbs of torque. Matter of fact, my 1" $10 Weaver rings (bought at WallyMart) are solidly attached to the UTG adapter after only "snugging up" the base screws..........

For some reason the cheap Weaver Quad Lock rings will hold my "not exactly light" 4-16x50 Hawke Panorama scope without slipping, yet I don't get scope tube damage if I use 15in/lbs torque on the rather narrow top straps. The Weaver rings are a sort of "wrap around" design that seems to hold the scope without a lot of top strap screw torque...........

As a side note, according to the link those rings weigh .4 POUNDS (almost 1/2 pound) which is a rather heavy addition when added to the weight of a scope!

HunterWhite · « **Reply #19 on:** November 28, 2018, 10:48:25 PM »

Yep, the Wheeler Fat Wrench, that's the one that I have.
All of the torque wrenches that I have used will tell you to reduce the setting to the minimum when you store it. That will minimize spring fatigue.

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scope torque

Author Topic: scope torque (Read 3079 times))