SIG Sauer ASP20 Gas-Piston Breakbarrel Air Rifle

[c_m_shooter]

Mine was delivered last night.  I did't go outside with it yet, as is 38 degrees and raining.  Initial impressions are that it is big, but I was shooting my R7 2 nights ago so it may just be perspective.  I like the weaver rail, mounted my Leupold 6.5-20x on it.  I stepped out on the porch to rough in the scope at a can in the leaves and it was loud.  I think the 7.9 crosmans were supersonic.  I brought it in the house and was shooting at 10 yards with JSB 10.5 and H+N Barracudas.  It definitely liked the Barracudas, they were boringly accurate at that range.  It still seems loud, and was burning some oil at times.  Not an all day plinker, the recoil is noticible after 100 shots or so.  Towards the end of the session accuracy dropped off.  I checked the stock screws and they had all loosened between 1/2 and 1 turn.  I hope it clears up soon so I can shoot it at 30 and 40 yards to get a feel for it.

[UlteriorModem]

I think the 7.9 crosmans were supersonic

Holy cow way to break it in

[DonC]

My understanding is that the adjustment for pull weight has a hood over it to limit how far it can travel. It might be possible to adjust or remove this hood (certainly voiding the warranty).

The trigger on mine was too heavy, too, until I learned you had to push in the phillips screw to turn it and make the adjustment. Then it did lighten considerably, and was no longer the maker of sore finger tips. That said, I haven't done any extended shooting yet, due to travel, work, and early evenings. Only about 20 shots off the back porch to see if it was sighted in, and a couple shots at some spinners for fun.

I wonder if adding a trigger shoe would help make the trigger feel lighter?

[wimpanzee]

My understanding is that the adjustment for pull weight has a hood over it to limit how far it can travel. It might be possible to adjust or remove this hood (certainly voiding the warranty).

The trigger on mine was too heavy, too, until I learned you had to push in the phillips screw to turn it and make the adjustment. Then it did lighten considerably, and was no longer the maker of sore finger tips. That said, I haven't done any extended shooting yet, due to travel, work, and early evenings. Only about 20 shots off the back porch to see if it was sighted in, and a couple shots at some spinners for fun.

I wonder if adding a trigger shoe would help make the trigger feel lighter?

I lightened mine all the way, and then set the travel to a long first, short second stage, and shooting became much better. Now if the travel adjustment would just stay put, it would be golden. This morning, after re-adjusting again, the travel screw was moving about 1/4 turn per shot. After only 2 shots, it went from 1 turn out, to 1.5 turns out, with noticeable change in the travel. Still waiting on Sig's "24 hour" response for several days now.

[mbouchpcp]

Hey guys go back a page and see the results I got chronograping a handful of different pellets.  As you may note power is down compared to results Tom Gaylord got with his .22.

I'm hoping some other .22 ASP20 owners will chrornograph their guns and share results.  If their power is up to spec, I'll need to send my gun in for repair/replacement.

BTW: I talked with SIG earlier in the week trying to get stock and trigger guard screw torque specs.  I discovered they did not have them and they would not share them if they did.  When I asked Customer Service how to proceed when screws loosened up, the rep said I should send the gun in for repair as SIG does not want us working on air rifles.

Lest I forget, I checked in with Tom regarding torques specs.  After laughing his behind off he shared that he did not see a torgue wrench in use when he saw guns being assembled at the factory. 

Finally, the SIG customer service rep kept telling me that the rifles are produced by a third party in a foreign country.  He stayed with that story till I told him I saw pictures of the rifle being assembled in their U.S. factory.

I think we're going to have problems with customer service till they train the reps or gets lots of phone calls for support and are forced to learn about the rifle.

Best wishes.

The other Mark B.

[Bryan Heimann]

Good grief!

[uglymike]

Good grief!

+1   The more I read, the more I think I'll hold off on the ASP20. I'm wondering how long it'll be before we see an ASP20 refurb on the PA website?

[wimpanzee]

Hey guys go back a page and see the results I got chronograping a handful of different pellets.  As you may note power is down compared to results Tom Gaylord got with his .22.

I'm hoping some other .22 ASP20 owners will chrornograph their guns and share results.  If their power is up to spec, I'll need to send my gun in for repair/replacement.

BTW: I talked with SIG earlier in the week trying to get stock and trigger guard screw torque specs.  I discovered they did not have them and they would not share them if they did.  When I asked Customer Service how to proceed when screws loosened up, the rep said I should send the gun in for repair as SIG does not want us working on air rifles.

Lest I forget, I checked in with Tom regarding torques specs.  After laughing his behind off he shared that he did not see a torgue wrench in use when he saw guns being assembled at the factory. 

Finally, the SIG customer service rep kept telling me that the rifles are produced by a third party in a foreign country.  He stayed with that story till I told him I saw pictures of the rifle being assembled in their U.S. factory.

I think we're going to have problems with customer service till they train the reps or gets lots of phone calls for support and are forced to learn about the rifle.

Best wishes.

The other Mark B.

Mine clocked in at 815fps with 15.89gr jsb - right at 23fpe.

[c_m_shooter]

Mine is shooting pretty good.  I chronographed a few pellets.  JSB 10.4 are going between 890 and 900.  8.4 are going 1020-1030.   I was mostly shooting the 10.4's today at 30 and 40 yards.  It liked Both the JSB 10.4 and H+N barcudas. The 8.4 and cpl 7.9 had a lot of flyers.  The 10.5 crosmans were stringing vertically and were very hard to load. 

I won't post groups or claim any super groups, as I don't have a benchrest.  I was shooting from a seated field target position at 30-45 yards, and then kneeling and standing between 10 and 20 yards. I would get 3 or 4 touching on the spinner, then throw one outside the group, not unusual for me no matter what I'm shooting.  It seems like it will do as long as I get a good hold, it seems to like being supported right at the logo on the forend, and a firm grip with the right hand.


The stock screws stayed tight today. I adjusted the trigger to the minimum weight out of the box, and would say it is okay but not great.  It creeps a little on the second stage compared to my Weighrachs, but is better the my CZ550 when not using the set trigger.  It seemed unpredictible the first day, but better today as long as I didn't think about it too much.

[Bryan Heimann]

Good grief!

+1   The more I read, the more I think I'll hold off on the ASP20. I'm wondering how long it'll be before we see an ASP20 refurb on the PA website?

won't be long...

[Frankly]

I want to root for Sig but they've had a terrible track record with new models of firearms, their early 1911s, MPXs, etc. were really nice looking but had recalls. And of course the 320 fiasco (don't drop it).

Here's a funny Patrick Kelly video, he takes a new 320 to a steel match and it has issues out of the box:

(Granted, guns need breaking in but if it's meant to be the military's weapon of choice it probably should be as reliable as... a Glock.)

Hopefully the next run of Sig ASP's correct all these issues, I think they are proactive and good people but I hate being their unpaid beta tester. Appreciate this thread, I almost bought one.

[mbouchpcp]

Hey guys go back a page and see the results I got chronograping a handful of different pellets.  As you may note power is down compared to results Tom Gaylord got with his .22.

I'm hoping some other .22 ASP20 owners ........... the reps or gets lots of phone calls for support and are forced to learn about the rifle.

Best wishes.

The other Mark B.

Mine clocked in at 815fps with 15.89gr jsb - right at 23fpe.

Thanks for the data.  Any others with .22 data to share?

Best wishes.

The other Mark B.

[accu fan]

I would like to see 50 yard groups.

[JungleShooter]

I would like to see 50 yard groups.

Yes, Tim, precision at a distance is what counts in the end.  I want a magnum, and unless someone wants to hunt hogs or large urban feral nuisances at close range, I want a magnum to shoot the distance.

50 yards starting, that is. If it doesn't group well at that distance, I don't even need to dream of 75 or 100.

So, let's see those groups! Thank you for contributing!

[mbouchpcp]

RE: Spoke with SIG Sauer today in regards to my ASP20 in .22

For those that have been following this thread you'll recall that my .22 ASP20 rifle is averaging 21.5 foot pounds or so versus the 23 foot pounds advertised.  You'll also recall that my chronograph results do not match those published by Tom Gaylord in his blog.

I called SIG Sauer customer service today and reported the power issue and the fact that the gun's action is moving up and down within the stock. The latest issue – BTW – first occurred yesterday when the gun suddenly lost zero. Unfortunately, point of impact was still 4 to 6 inches below the point of aim after max scope elevation was dialed in.   I did not discover the movement until taking the gun to my workbench where the action suddenly snapped back into place with just a bit of pressure.

Customer Service said I could send the gun to them and they would inspect it.  They also gave me the option of contacting Pyramid Air.  I chose that latter and ended the call, but a short time later SIG called me back.

The customer service person had a series of questions from the airgun people hidden within the bowels of SIG.  Questions included my chronograph results (which I verified using a second chronograph today), temperature (today's was 65 degrees F), distance from end of suppressor to chronograph sensor, and the like.

SIG advised that power would decrease by 1 foot pound for every 10 degree drop in temperature and that my gun was factory tested at 70 degrees F.  SIG also shared that the factory test of my gun – based upon records that they save – was 23 foot pounds with a pellet weighing around 14.5 grains.  They then suggested I retest the gun with a pellet around that weight.  Fortunately, I had tested JSB Jumbo Express pellets (14.35 grains) earlier.  I shared the test results with them.

SIG then said they would like me to send them the gun for inspection and that I would receive an email with return details shortly.

I learned a few other things.  First SIG is going to publish torque specs for APS 20 stock bolts shortly.  The specs will be for the bolt on each side of the stock and the forward trigger guard bolt, but +++NOT+++ the rear trigger guard bolt.  The rear bolt goes into the stock (and over tightening can crack the stock) while the front bolt actually goes into the action. 

Second, some of the SIG airgun people supposedly watch this forum closely. Likewise for the Airgun Nation forum.  I found this out when I suggested that they share the torque data on both forums in addition to their normal channels.

Third, SIG +++DOES+++ expect us to check stock bolt tightness (but not the rear trigger guard screw tightness) contrary to advice I received from SIG customer service last week.  As some may recall, I was told back then to send the gun in for service when bolts loosen up.  Kudos for SIG in recognizing that such was not the best advice for air rifle owners.

Note that I could probably have asked Pyramid Air to simply replace my rifle as it does not meet published specs, plus the action moves up and down within the stock.  SIG however, went out of it way to call me back on their own initiative and to ask detailed questions about rifle performance and circumstances surrounding the chronograph testing I conducted.  For that reason, plus the fact that the rifle is a new design just released to the market, I believe it best to deal with SIG directly.

Moan and groan BTW ……I'm maintaining the belief  even if turn around time is two weeks or so as written in their return information which just arrived via email. 😂

I'm looking forward to see the results of SIG inspection activities when the air rifle is returned.  Finally, I'm glad to see that SIG is taking this air rifle model seriously when an issue is reported.

Best wishes.

The other Mark B.

[Bryan Heimann]

Well, that does sound a bit better.  One thing bothers me though- 1 fpe per 10 degrees drop in temp below 70?  They probably ought to rethink that!  If I can expect a GAS PISTON rifle to descrease power by up to  7 fpe in 0 degrees, well, I got these SPRINGERS that don't! 

Surely they mentioned that in error.

[rsterne]

Gas piston will, indeed, lose a bit of performance according to temperature.... However, I think that 1 FPE per 10*F is incorrect.... The pressure inside the ram will only decrease by (10/530) = 1.9 % for each 10*F the temperature drops.... That is more like about 0.4 FPE per 10*F, by my calculations.... unless there is also some effect coming from the lubes used....

Springers, of course, can be effected by lubes thickening as well.... depending on what is used on the spring and piston....

Bob

[Bryan Heimann]

If I lost 1 foot pound per 10 degrees temperature drop I would have cut slingload on springers a long longtime ago.  It was a Chinese springer that reeled me in to begin with.  I don't even think .4 fpe sounds right, from 70 degrees.

I could see it happening in very cold weather, but I doubt it even becomes a factor until the temps dip to a certain point to start from.  Like mid to late fall or early winter.

[JungleShooter]

Well, now you keep sending me that click bait and I won’t get my work done....!   

But, I got to ask. You commented how little effect temperature has on the muzzle energy of a springer.
What about a PCP?
(And I understand there is a big difference for CO2.)

[Bryan Heimann]

It definitely effects spring guns but not until it dips quite abit.  Not enough temp drop in winter here in cumberland county for me to notice a drop in power. 

Pcp i dont think the powerdrops so much as pressureand shots.  I wouldnt know personally.