One of the most compelling reasons to buy good vintage airguns

[Yng@hrt]

The reality is the vintage European Springers are better built guns than American pumpers. American’s would not pay the price for firearm quality air rifles.  We will buy a firearm. 

You are talking apples & oranges Steve. My point bringing American made Vintage Pumpers into the equation is that they can & are capable of competing with ANY Springer out there even if they are considered inferior by some.

To your point on American's not willing to pay for quality air guns back when; I will agree this holds true for me simply because I grew up in a state where air guns were unheard of. But what about the rest of the country? In the short time I've been here it has become quite apparent there are some pretty hard core air gunners out there that wouldn't have hesitated to fork out a little more $ if an American company had something to offer which could compete with those you speak of.

This may be the first American made spring rifle of which you speak, just hitting the store now I believe or about to. It’s $400 will American’s pay that much for a real quality rifle?  Interesting to that it’s from a firearms manufacturer.

https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=139390.0

You are asking the wrong person although I would imagine there is a strong fan base. Like you I am into vintage, & I don’t see myself purchasing any kind of Springer or PCP’s anytime soon, either from the US & certainly not from Europe when that dollar amount can land me a very nice Benji or Dan.
 
Our attraction to vintage air guns appears to be the same. I like the look, the quality, their performance on the range, & their longevity. Perhaps I'm wrong although your attraction appears more geared towards the engineering & art like appearance & not their actual usage. How do you know those guns are as efficient as those I ‘speak’? Have you tried any of those guns out on the range?
 
I digress; I enjoy looking at your European guns & those elsewhere. They’re just not my enchilada. 

[45flint]

The reality is the vintage European Springers are better built guns than American pumpers. American’s would not pay the price for firearm quality air rifles.  We will buy a firearm. 

You are talking apples & oranges Steve. My point bringing American made Vintage Pumpers into the equation is that they can & are capable of competing with ANY Springer out there even if they are considered inferior by some.

To your point on American's not willing to pay for quality air guns back when; I will agree this holds true for me simply because I grew up in a state where air guns were unheard of. But what about the rest of the country? In the short time I've been here it has become quite apparent there are some pretty hard core air gunners out there that wouldn't have hesitated to fork out a little more $ if an American company had something to offer which could compete with those you speak of.

This may be the first American made spring rifle of which you speak, just hitting the store now I believe or about to. It’s $400 will American’s pay that much for a real quality rifle?  Interesting to that it’s from a firearms manufacturer.

https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=139390.0

You are asking the wrong person although I would imagine there is a strong fan base. Like you I am into vintage, & I don’t see myself purchasing any kind of Springer or PCP’s anytime soon, either from the US & certainly not from Europe when that dollar amount can land me a very nice Benji or Dan.
 
Our attraction to vintage air guns appears to be the same. I like the look, the quality, their performance on the range, & their longevity. Perhaps I'm wrong although your attraction appears more geared towards the engineering & art like appearance & not their actual usage. How do you know those guns are as efficient as those I ‘speak’? Have you tried any of those guns out on the range?
 
I digress; I enjoy looking at your European guns & those elsewhere. They’re just not my enchilada.

I’m frankly not a good enough shooter nor do I have the area to test at long ranges nor the inclination. I’m a collector that loves to shoot for fun.

[bantam5s]

The reality is the vintage European Springers are better built guns than American pumpers. American’s would not pay the price for firearm quality air rifles.  We will buy a firearm. 

You are talking apples & oranges Steve. My point bringing American made Vintage Pumpers into the equation is that they can & are capable of competing with ANY Springer out there even if they are considered inferior by some.

To your point on American's not willing to pay for quality air guns back when; I will agree this holds true for me simply because I grew up in a state where air guns were unheard of. But what about the rest of the country? In the short time I've been here it has become quite apparent there are some pretty hard core air gunners out there that wouldn't have hesitated to fork out a little more $ if an American company had something to offer which could compete with those you speak of.

This may be the first American made spring rifle of which you speak, just hitting the store now I believe or about to. It’s $400 will American’s pay that much for a real quality rifle?  Interesting to that it’s from a firearms manufacturer.

https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=139390.0

You are asking the wrong person although I would imagine there is a strong fan base. Like you I am into vintage, & I don’t see myself purchasing any kind of Springer or PCP’s anytime soon, either from the US & certainly not from Europe when that dollar amount can land me a very nice Benji or Dan.
 
Our attraction to vintage air guns appears to be the same. I like the look, the quality, their performance on the range, & their longevity. Perhaps I'm wrong although your attraction appears more geared towards the engineering & art like appearance & not their actual usage. How do you know those guns are as efficient as those I ‘speak’? Have you tried any of those guns out on the range?
 
I digress; I enjoy looking at your European guns & those elsewhere. They’re just not my enchilada.

I'd say I feel the same way.
 they're beautifully made and easy on the eyes, but just not my kind of gun.

[Yng@hrt]

"I’m frankly not a good enough shooter".

Don't think that Steve. I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn from the inside with my first gun. Nor could I come close to holding a candle with those top guns. However, I'll bet those folks didn't just wake up one day & the shots magically appeared, but they overcame obstacles to get to where they are. Especially that first one that you mentioned which I think it’s safe to say we've all thought. I mentioned in another thread the mounds of paper & cartridges of ink I had to go through, & it got so bad that my wife said if I wanted anymore I’d have to buy it. It was at that point things started happening. Those shots up top; they’re the best out of a bunch of pretty sorry sheets from the same matches.
 
The best part for me which I think you might appreciate is exercising mind & body especially at our age.

[eeler1]

I’ve read this thread with interest, as I’ve accumulated quite a few vintage airguns.  None are collector grade.

When I was shooting regularly, both FT and pesting, I went springer and then pcp.  These vintage guns are cool, but can’t come close to the accuracy of a good pre-charged gun, especially at longer airgun distances.  Sorry, I know some of you think your Dan can shoot aspirin at 40 yards, but a good pcp rifle and scope really can.

So, the attraction is something other than max accuracy.  I believe it’s related to fun.  Even current production guns that fit a similar niche, are just not as much fun to shoot as the vintage versions.  And reasonable quality of build.  Newer cheap guns not so good.  Some vintage is also &^^&, but not usually the collectible stuff.

Collecting is a whole other matter.  You could collect current production guns, but then you wait for 40 years hoping that they will become collectible.  And mostly they aren’t nearly as fun.

[19Sheridan57]

  I love the feel of the vintage air rifles. I want WOOD, not plastic stock, forearm, & almost everything else. I love the adjustable power I get from old pumpers , plus their light weight, accuracy, & quality . I enjoy rotating my stock around & shooting each one. I stop & shoot a few of them much more than others, because there is something " special " about those.

[Yng@hrt]

Jon- everything Steve mentioned x10.

There are many reasons why I put away my high powered rifles & took up archery but the short of it…too easy. I hunt with vintage pumpers for all the same reasons; the skill level to get within range triples. Most of my shots are within 10 to 20 yards, sometimes closer, & more often than not are head shots.
 
The accuracy I was referring to up top is 10M (32.8’), not 40 yards. Heck, I can barely see that dot at 10M, & no a vintage pumper probably can’t compete toe-to-toe with a good pre-charged gun, but at 40 yards? Aspirins are pretty darn big. I’d be up to that challenge in a heartbeat. Now beyond that… not so sure. My pumpers would have to undergo a major transformation on triggers. More so with the Benji's. Ideally whacking off about 2/3 of the trigger & getting the pull down to about a lb, but am I willing to do that...NO. Point is, these guns are that good. 

[Hoosier Daddy]

While I LOVE my 'Dans and Benji's, and they are wonderful shooting American wood and steel pumpers.
I can see the point that even though some the European Airgun quality and accuracy was up and beyond... for the price, Americans would buy a PB (.22lr) at the time.
  Consider that the FWB 300 came out in '69 and the 300S superceeded it in '72. These are German Springers that were much are more accurate and VERY dependable. They were imported to the states by Daisy and Beeman, used in gun clubs including the Boy Scouts and 4H.
  These are 40-50 year old guns that still bring big money, so their longevity is hard to deny. You would be hard pressed to find someone who has owned both that would say a 'Dan or a Benji is the same quality as a Feinwerkbau of the same vintage.
 But not many wanted to cough up the $400+ in the '70s for one.

[bantam5s]

I’ve read this thread with interest, as I’ve accumulated quite a few vintage airguns.  None are collector grade.

When I was shooting regularly, both FT and pesting, I went springer and then pcp.  These vintage guns are cool, but can’t come close to the accuracy of a good pre-charged gun, especially at longer airgun distances.  Sorry, I know some of you think your Dan can shoot aspirin at 40 yards, but a good pcp rifle and scope really can.

So, the attraction is something other than max accuracy.  I believe it’s related to fun.  Even current production guns that fit a similar niche, are just not as much fun to shoot as the vintage versions.  And reasonable quality of build.  Newer cheap guns not so good.  Some vintage is also &^^&, but not usually the collectible stuff.

Collecting is a whole other matter.  You could collect current production guns, but then you wait for 40 years hoping that they will become collectible.  And mostly they aren’t nearly as fun.

I'll bet the scope is the main thing that would allow the PCP to make such a shot, take a popular pcp thats designed for a scope and see what happens when you adapt it for iron sights.

I've never tried or heard of it being tried but I suspect a peeped Dan is more capable of this shot than one might expect, and probably even more so if you put a mac1 mount and scope on it.
They don't have target triggers but I know my blue streak has a darn good trigger that would be more than adequate for such a shot if I had the ability to take it an skill to make it. ( Best I can get is about 25yds )

[Bryan Heimann]

Well, at least if you lean the Sheridan in the corner, it will still hit poi.

Seen plenty of threads on guns like the Marauder, not quite holding zero.

Might be minute of aspirin, but lean it in the corner of the closet for a week. Might still shoot minute of aspirin at 40 yards, to a different poi altogether.

[45flint]

While I LOVE my 'Dans and Benji's, and they are wonderful shooting American wood and steel pumpers.
I can see the point that even though some the European Airgun quality and accuracy was up and beyond... for the price, Americans would buy a PB (.22lr) at the time.
  Consider that the FWB 300 came out in '69 and the 300S superceeded it in '72. These are German Springers that were much are more accurate and VERY dependable. They were imported to the states by Daisy and Beeman, used in gun clubs including the Boy Scouts and 4H.
  These are 40-50 year old guns that still bring big money, so their longevity is hard to deny. You would be hard pressed to find someone who has owned both that would say a 'Dan or a Benji is the same quality as a Feinwerkbau of the same vintage.
 But not many wanted to cough up the $400+ in the '70s for one.

I just sold my FWB 65 pistol last week, just like the one in the ad above.  Talk about holding their value, got over $700, it was a 1978.  Sold it to a guy that had won a national rifle title with the rifle above. 

[bantam5s]

That add is interesting, the Daisy red Ryder was $25 in that 1970's add and they're available for $25 today ( though they were undoubtedly made better )

[Hoosier Daddy]

I just sold my FWB 65 pistol last week, just like the one in the ad above.  Talk about holding their value, got over $700, it was a 1978.  Sold it to a guy that had won a national rifle title with the rifle above.

LOL... I paid $500 for a rebuilt but unfinished wood vintage 300S and I consider that a steal!
 All goes to prove the original topic of this tread... Quality Vintage AirGuns have a compelling interest as far as an investment.

[Bryan Heimann]

That add is interesting, the Daisy red Ryder was $25 in that 1970's add and they're available for $25 today ( though they were undoubtedly made better )

I used to shoot christmas lights off the roof with one.  100% consistent hits, with ease.  Bet you can't do that with a new one.  For sure you can't do it with a new model 25.

Edit- yea my own lights off my own roof, lol.  No i did not get in trouble.

[Yng@hrt]

But not many wanted to cough up the $400+ in the '70s for one

What was $400 in 1970 worth in today's money? Adjusted for inflation, $400.00 in 1970 is equal to $2,615.64 in 2018.

I know when I'm whooped.

Although...not American made, & I can't see myself beatin the brush with one.

[45flint]

But not many wanted to cough up the $400+ in the '70s for one

What was $400 in 1970 worth in today's money? Adjusted for inflation, $400.00 in 1970 is equal to $2,615.64 in 2018.

I know when I'm whooped.

Although...not American made, & I can't see myself beatin the brush with one.

That’s part of the reason these kinds of guns are not made today, too expensive to produce plus the PCP has taken over serious target shooting and the PCP is much easier to manufacture.  That’s why all the gun company’s are makes PCP, better profit margin.

[Bryan Heimann]

I just wish the PCP barrels were built a little more rigid on the low end.  Imagine a benjamin discovery with enough material in the barrel, that they could dovetail it to install nice durable sights.  Then actually do it.   That would be so freaking awesome.  Heavier, sure.  But they are so dang light already, why would you even care if they added a full pound of barrel?

[Hoosier Daddy]

Although...not American made, & I can't see myself beatin the brush with one.

Sorry, I did not see either of those stipulations in the original topic of this thread...

Yes if your in this section you probably love vintage airguns just because.  But I was reading in the General Airgun section about someone wanting recommendations for a good backyard rifle after his $100 Walmart special wasn’t proving too accurate.  So many people throw money down the drain buying new airguns that actually can never hold a candle to airguns made 30 years ago?  Also as I have found out this month if you change directions you can sell good vintage airguns for what you paid for them for more?  Sold too vintage airguns that no longer interested me made a profit on both.

Merely that vintage guns were a good investment. then it turned to american vintage pumpers were a better claim to acuracy and dependability than their higher priced Euro brotheren could justify.
I may very well be wrong but that is the way it came across to me.
 A pristine FWB 300S today can fetch $1200, then add in the Running Boar / Triolene versions and the sky is the limit.
Yes a good investment indeed if you can find one at a modest price I think.

[bantam5s]

That add is interesting, the Daisy red Ryder was $25 in that 1970's add and they're available for $25 today ( though they were undoubtedly made better )

I used to shoot christmas lights off the roof with one.  100% consistent hits, with ease.  Bet you can't do that with a new one.  For sure you can't do it with a new model 25.

Edit- yea my own lights off my own roof, lol.  No i did not get in trouble.

I used to shoot dandelions all the time with my first red Ryder 10 or so years ago, they don't grow in my backyard now so I haven't tried with my new one though.
I'd love a vintage one for sure, theyre not the same gun bit I'll have to do an accuracy comparison between my current red Ryder and my 60's model 95.

[Yng@hrt]

Although...not American made, & I can't see myself beatin the brush with one.

Sorry, I did not see either of those stipulations in the original topic of this thread...

It wasn't one of the stipulations/conditions. I am ONLY speaking for myself...it's important for me.