Convince me that I don’t need 24x magnification!... (Or that I DO need it!)

[JungleShooter]

Convince me that I don’t need 24x magnification!...  (Or that I DO need it!)  

I have a Leapers UTG 6-24x50 AO Front Parallax.
Now (to feed the “beast” that lives within) I want to upgrade from a 120$ scope to a $300-400 scope.

For that I amassed a detailed list of 6-24x / 5-20x scopes (with specs and prices, if you’re interested).
Now, just before hitting the Add-to-Cart button, I’m having second thoughts and want to ask my GTA community for advice.

Folks, this is a different discussion than the one about the best objective lens size. Cf.:
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=150535



Here are some great articles I read:
• Tom Gaylord’s “Scopes for Field Target”
• “Airgun Long Range Scopes”
• “Top 10 Target Scopes under $300”
• “Best Budget Varmit Scopes”

But – they don’t help me that much, because I can’t afford to buy 3 or 4 DEDICATED SCOPES, one for FT, one target, one varmint etc. My budget allows me one rifle with one scope.
What I need is a COMPROMISE SCOPE...! :-)



So, here is what I’d like this compromise scope to do:

Types of Shooting:
(1) Hunting – walking, and from a hide – pigeons, rabbits, rats
(2) Target shooting
(3) Distances up to 100 and 150 yards – for both hunting and targets (parallax down to 10y)


Other Requirements
(4) Scope price range = $300/400

(5) I do not need to range distances like in FT, so no need for a narrow DoF (depth of field). But I do like side turret parallax.

(6) I do not mind the extra weight of a 50 or 56 mm objective lens. Bring it on, I’m a packrat!


Other Details
(7) I’m a turret clicker, so I need the scope to track well and be repeatable.
FYI:  You can tell me why you prefer the clicker (dialer) approach, or the hold’er-over approach here: https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=149959


(8 ) My eyes are over 50 years old.

(9) FYI: The gun is a mid-level PCP (33FPE)



What magnification range do you recommend?
Why would I need 24x?  Or why I should get a lesser magnification?
What I am gaining by having 16x instead of 24x? What am I losing?

Thanks for the help.

Matthias

[squirrel_hunter]

 just because you have a 24x scope doent mean to crank it to 24x,i shoot my 24x konuspro on 16x...

[Taso1000]

Matthias,

I was going to ask if you were aware of the SWFA SS (Super Sniper) line of scopes.  $300, fixed magnification models from 6x, 10x, 12x, 16x, 20x, rear focus and they are among the most accurate and repeatable click adjustable scope. 

I then noticed you are located in Peru.  The only problem is that they aren't allowed outside of the U.S.

Thanks,

Taso

[Taso1000]

I do like high magnification so that I can get better detail when shooting.  But it's only practical off a bench and if you have the time to acquire your target. 

Otherwise lower powers are more useful for the field of view they provide and quickly acquiring targets.

Just my $.02 and I've never experienced mirage conditions to see how higher magnifications are affected.

Thanks,

Taso

[ranchibi]

Taso, as you know at the ranges you are shooting 100-150yds when hunting using a rest of some sort you can really use higher magnification and at closer distances less magnification. Don’t know if you are looking at FFP scopes as they afford you the magnification change with no change in POI. You know your needs so that magnification is needed I would think. You should research Discovery scopes as their tracking is spot on and scopes affordable and fall into your budget. There are many good scopes at your price point so you’ll have many manufacturers to choose from.

[JungleShooter]

I was going to ask if you were aware of the SWFA SS (Super Sniper) line of scopes. 
[...]
I then noticed you are located in Peru.  The only problem is that they aren't allowed outside of the U.S.
Taso

No problem, someone visiting me from the US can bring one down for me. 

However, fixed magnification is not really something I would choose if I can get a zoom scope....

[bandg]

At the range today shooting a scoped AR15.  12X maximum magnification.  Would have been nice to have one of my higher magnification scopes to see holes in targets.  Related to airguns?  Maybe.  I only have the one scope with magnification that low and won't be getting any others.  YMMV

[subscriber]

Cheap, high mag variable scopes may not be a clear as you might like.  Also, unless you shoot from a bench, starting above 10X is going to leave you with something useless for the field:  Finding the target will be hard.  Holding still even harder.  Here 24X is worse than 16X.

High mag scopes offer more precision, in theory.  Practical application is another matter entirely.

Only you can decided, but I think you would be better served by a 4 - 12 X.  If you must have over 16X, stick to a fixed power.   Else the glass gets blurry, or the price goes up.  A lot.

16X or 24X at ten yards and most scopes can't focus.  If they could focus, you would be looking at eye lashes, rather than a dove's head

Cheaper solid scopes with parallax down to 10 yards:  https://leapers.com/index.php?skey=adjustable+parallax&act=search

Maybe this one: 

[nced]

Convince me that I don’t need 24x magnification!...  (Or that I DO need it!)  

I have a Leapers UTG 6-24x50 AO Front Parallax.
Now (to feed the “beast” that lives within) I want to upgrade from a 120$ scope to a $300-400 scope.

For that I amassed a detailed list of 6-24x / 5-20x scopes (with specs and prices, if you’re interested).
Now, just before hitting the Add-to-Cart button, I’m having second thoughts and want to ask my GTA community for advice.


Here are some great articles I read:
• Tom Gaylord’s “Scopes for Field Target”
• “Airgun Long Range Scopes”
• “Top 10 Target Scopes under $300”
• “Best Budget Varmit Scopes”

But – they don’t help me that much, because I can’t afford to buy 3 or 4 DEDICATED SCOPES, one for FT, one target, one varmint etc. My budget allows me one rifle with one scope.
What I need is a COMPROMISE SCOPE...! :-)



So, here is what I’d like this compromise scope to do:

Types of Shooting:
(1) Hunting – walking, and from a hide – pigeons, rabbits, rats
(2) Target shooting
(3) Distances up to 100 and 150 yards – for both hunting and targets (parallax down to 10y)


Other Requirements
(4) Scope price range = $300/400

(5) I do not need to range distances like in FT, so no need for a narrow DoF (depth of field). But I do like side turret parallax.

(6) I do not mind the extra weight of a 50 or 56 mm objective lens. Bring it on, I’m a packrat!


Other Details
(7) I’m a turret clicker, so I need the scope to track well and be repeatable.

(8 ) My eyes are over 50 years old.

(9) FYI: The gun is a mid-level PCP (33FPE)



What magnification range do you recommend?
Why would I need 24x?  Or why I should get a lesser magnification?
What I am gaining by having 16x instead of 24x? What am I losing?

Thanks for the help.

Matthias

When in my early 20s (will be 72 in February) and shooting center fire powder burners we only used 4x scopes and I saw my brother shoot 3 shot groups under 1" ctc at 100yards frequently so I really don't think "24x" is necessary unless you're shooting field target competition where the scope is needed to "range find". For those that do scope rangefind I've been told that 24x is about the lowest power setting that gives a reasonably accurate rangefind at 55 yards (the max distance a field target is set on a lane). Generally 32x is considered the minimum scope power to determine the distance of a 55ish yard target within plus/minus a couple yards.

With a good 12x scope I can see .177 cal pellet holes in a target at 50 yards so (for me) the only issue is scope rangefinding when shooting the hunter class in field target which allows a max 16x scope setting for competition. LOL....the other field target classes are unlimited in scope power and I do know one shooter using a March 10-60x52mm scope (maybe $2,900 at Optics Planet).

[Fussell]

I prefer 30 power......basically because I like to shoot paper targets and I like to be able to read the KZ numbers as I shoot and when shooting longer distances I don't need a spotting scope to see how tight my groups are.

I love my little BSA 6-24x44 on my Colibri and have been recently looking for another when I came across this little gem.
Mueller 8-32x44 Tactical   and it will focus down to 10 yds
http://muelleroptics.com/products/mueller-8-32x44-side-focus-tactical/

You can get one for just 221.09 shipped from Walmart. Now that's a deal. Not sure how they track as I use holdover instead?
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Mueller-8-32x44-Side-Focus-Mil-Dot-Reticle/40020319

I'm looking hard at it for my next scope purchase!

[JungleShooter]

Thanks, Fussell, for the link to the Mueller 8-32x44 Tactical.
Great price, whoa.

I just checked the elevation adjustment range, and this particular scope only has a 40MOA elevation adjustment range, so that’s not allowing me to click far enough:
Even if I use adjustable scope mounts and put my universal zeroing distance (35y) at the very bottom of the elevation adjustment range of the turret – the 40 MOA turret range will barely get me out to 100y with a Baracuda pellet, no Monsters or Piledrivers.
And to 150y, I’m cutting it close even with a standard JSB domed pellet. Nothing heavier is going to be clickable.

Thanks for your input though! All help is appreciated! :-)

[JungleShooter]

nced and Fussell both mention wanting to see pellet holes in paper targets --
nced at 50y, and Fussell probably much further, and at the same time he's saving himself a spotting scope -- LESS money and additional gear to lug around.

I like that.   
As I said, I'm looking at 100y (and then some, hopefully), so will a "good" 12x scope help me see those .22 holes at that distance? How "good" does it need to be -- or is that beyond my $300-400 budget?

[Wayne52]

My max right now is 16X but as of now I haven't had the scope mounted on anything yet (decisions decisions ) but I've got 2 12X scopes I use quite often.  I only use them for hunting in mostly hard wood forrest's with some much thicker than others.  I normally run at about 6X but when I see a long shot that looks like it might be a doable shot I'll crank them out to 12X, focus and go for it.

This is the one that hasn't found the right gun yet, I'm thinking my SPAM16 right now because that gun really reaches out there good.

It a UTG 4-16X x 44 with the 30mm tube

[Hobbyman2007]

I’ve got a 6x24x56 athlon Argos BTR and love it . Since switching to an FFP scope the SFP’s that I have are or already have been switched out . Not having to calculate between shots at different ranges is really a big plus . If you can get them where you are I would highly recommend trying one out before you buy.

[bandg]

When I was younger hunting in eastern Arkansas, we often had shots across bean fields as well as in heavy cover.  Scopes were usually much lower powered, 2 to 4 power on lower end and were well suited for that purpose.  I don't hunt anymore and don't need such lower magnification.  My eyes work much better with much higher magnification these days.  My highest quality scopes go to 32X magnification.  It is nice to have that clear magnification in the 24X and above in my case.  Others will certainly have different needs.

[elh0102]

Matthias,
I don't have a specific scope recommendation, as I believe a good scope in that price range is a real challenge. I would encourage you to view it as a long term purchase that will be used on future rifles, and stretch your budget. However, I will offer some general advice about features. Side focus is definitely an easier, more versatile design, and I recommend it. Deciding on power range, maybe consider a slightly different evaluation process. Rather than asking, do I need 24X, maybe the question is, do I need 6X, or 4X or 8X on the low end. If you have adequate field of view and depth of field on the low end, then your upper end comes along naturally. You lose nothing by having a bit more power than you might frequently need, if you have your low power needs met. You might believe that you would rarely use anything under 8X or 10X, so, maybe an 8-32X gives you some additional flexibility. I cannot remember the last time I used a 6X setting on my 6-24 scopes.

[FPGT72]

IMHO you don't NEED it, but it can be handy.

I have been wanting to play these long range games for a while now, no place to really do it in middle Missouri, but in my research this about sums it up....if these guys don't use it to shoot to 1000 yards, do air guns really need it to shoot 100.  Sure it can be fun when a fly lands on your target, but past that not really.

If it was me I would get the best quality glass you can, and there is a difference there.  The difference between Swarovski and even Leopold is like the difference between your $19.99 walmart special and Leopold.  Trust me if you look through good glass....and I mean really GOOD glass, it is a real eye opening deal. 

[Jeff Marshall]

You already have a scope that goes up to 24 power.

I don't understand the need to go online and ask if you really need 24 power. You already have everything you need to make that decision yourself.

[Bryan Heimann]

You can get some real nice glass for $300-$400.  I would choose optical quality before high magnification.

I average less than 2" for 3 shots at 100 yards with my 30-30 and good ammo, with the semi buckhorn factory sights.  And I am just a regular guy, not any kind of marksmanship competitor.

I would not go for a fixed scope with an accurate PCP.  It's not just about group size, but also about identifying your target and it's vital area and placing your shot.

I would look at AO, SFP scopes up to  10, 12, or 16x with mil reticles at or near the max price range of your budget.  Why start at 10x?  Because most mil reticles are true mil at 10x.  Why sfp?  Because at the price range you'll probably trade optical quality for FFP.

[Wolverineshooter]

How is the optical quality of the BSA 4-14x44 FFP? It cost only $120.