Rifle suggestion for backyard plinking & pests?

[Bryan Heimann]

I 100% agree the .22 cal is more fun to plink with.

[Hoosier Daddy]

Sorry I am late to the party but I just read your entire thread and feel I need to chime in.
 "Readers Digest Version":
 There is an adage here "Shoot it straight". There is a break-in process and a learning curve to a break barrel, no matter what brand.
 I think you are doing quite well for a Noob.
 While your Walmart selection of pellets is fine for breaking in and learning your gun, don't expect great accuracy. Run your tin of CPHP and Rugers out then quite screwin around and get some decent pellets. The mentioned JSB exact 15 and 18g and H&N FTT 14.6g are worlds above. If you order those from Pyramyd Air they give you a  4th tin FREE and chose the RWS Superdomes.
  Place your open hand that's under the forearm about where the gun balances. At first you may feel too far back (close to the trigger), but that's fine.

Now the long version:
 3 years ago I was in you same exact position.
I wanted to get (back) into airguns and was allured by a Break Barrel, I liked the looks of a Crosman Genesis NP, but instead, after a lot of advise here, ordered a Hatsan from PA  for what I thought was a lot of money, $160(!) It had issues right out of the box.
I returned it and exchanged it for the Crosman Gennie I originally wanted. (same price) but by then it was out of stock so I had to wait for delivery.

 Then strolling through Walmart there was a Beeman for $98, somehow it jumped into my cart. Suddenly, I had a break barrel and another on the way.... All within a month.
  The Beeman was my learning gun. If I had not found GTA I would have gave up right there and then.
 I was shooting 3" groups with no matter what pellet I tried from WalMart.... and I tried every hold I could imagine. After a few tins of their pellets I had tried, Destroyers, Piranhas, Ruger Pointed, the CPHP's seemed to be about the best. Got about where you are now. 1" on a good day.
 But I stuck with it.  Machining from those cheap break-barrels is rough, it takes time to wear smooth. But it DOES smooth out, as do you.
 I learned to rest the gun at the balance point mentioned above, even bought a cheap set of Allen bags from Walmart and quit using the front hand altogether.
On my trigger hand, the thumb does NOT wrap around the grip, lay it along your trigger finger. LIGHT cheek weld, as light as possible, jaw relaxed.

 Then the Crosman showed up. Much better quality than the Beeman, and by now I thought I had it figured out... But no... back to the start!
 1000 shot Break-in period with all those Walmart pellets (again), bought a better Hawke scope, even the trigger mod, and then a GTR trigger, got me to the occasional 1"group...

 I just could believe that a pellet could make THAT much difference or that Crosman Premier Hollow Points weren't the best quality pellets I could find. After all, it's only a pellet ... right?
 Then I finally thought about those "expensive" pellets.
Bought a 250 tin of JSB Exacts in 15.89g for my Genesis. I had changed the Beeman over to .177 and picked up some RWS Superdomes for it...and the difference was unbelievable.

 3 years later, I am now convinced, use the cheap stuff from Walmart for break-in but don't expect a lot. They're just too inconsistent... after the second 500 ct tin, out comes the good stuff and things start coming together.
 I still beat my head against the wall sometimes... on my latest Springer, a QB58, I struggled until I FINALLY found a pellet it likes.


 Summary,
- Sure you can get a Klunker, it happens like my Hatsan.
- People here LOVE to spend other peoples money.
- You will get better... be persistent and next thing you know it will cometogether.
 - you will have bigger / better guns but don't give up on the first one.

Below is a 3 shot group from that same $98 Beeman Silver Kodiak at 20 yards that has had NO mods what so ever, just "Shot Straight"....  sure I am braggin, but that just shows you don't need big money, just patience to learn the technique and break in a gun 

[19Sheridan57]

  Great advice, above !!

[Back_Roads]

 How quickly I have forgotten the springer breakin blues, I have been lucky with my last few springers , and with in a tin of pellets they were shooting sweet. a couple others in between not so good until I tore them down for new stuff and better lubes.  After going to the dark side, it is night and day, hmmm do they have the dark side named wrong ... n/m 

[Bryan Heimann]

Sorry I am late to the party but I just read your entire thread and feel I need to chime in.
 "Readers Digest Version":
 There is an adage here "Shoot it straight". There is a break-in process and a learning curve to a break barrel, no matter what brand.
 I think you are doing quite well for a Noob.
 While your Walmart selection of pellets is fine for breaking in and learning your gun, don't expect great accuracy. Run your tin of CPHP and Rugers out then quite screwin around and get some decent pellets. The mentioned JSB exact 15 and 18g and H&N FTT 14.6g are worlds above. If you order those from Pyramyd Air they give you a  4th tin FREE and chose the RWS Superdomes.
  Place your open hand that's under the forearm about where the gun balances. At first you may feel too far back (close to the trigger), but that's fine.

Now the long version:
 3 years ago I was in you same exact position.
I wanted to get (back) into airguns and was allured by a Break Barrel, I liked the looks of a Crosman Genesis NP, but instead, after a lot of advise here, ordered a Hatsan from PA  for what I thought was a lot of money, $160(!) It had issues right out of the box.
I returned it and exchanged it for the Crosman Gennie I originally wanted. (same price) but by then it was out of stock so I had to wait for delivery.

 Then strolling through Walmart there was a Beeman for $98, somehow it jumped into my cart. Suddenly, I had a break barrel and another on the way.... All within a month.
  The Beeman was my learning gun. If I had not found GTA I would have gave up right there and then.
 I was shooting 3" groups with no matter what pellet I tried from WalMart.... and I tried every hold I could imagine. After a few tins of their pellets I had tried, Destroyers, Piranhas, Ruger Pointed, the CPHP's seemed to be about the best. Got about where you are now. 1" on a good day.
 But I stuck with it.  Machining from those cheap break-barrels is rough, it takes time to wear smooth. But it DOES smooth out, as do you.
 I learned to rest the gun at the balance point mentioned above, even bought a cheap set of Allen bags from Walmart and quit using the front hand altogether.
On my trigger hand, the thumb does NOT wrap around the grip, lay it along your trigger finger. LIGHT cheek weld, as light as possible, jaw relaxed.

 Then the Crosman showed up. Much better quality than the Beeman, and by now I thought I had it figured out... But no... back to the start!
 1000 shot Break-in period with all those Walmart pellets (again), bought a better Hawke scope, even the trigger mod, and then a GTR trigger, got me to the occasional 1"group...

 I just could believe that a pellet could make THAT much difference or that Crosman Premier Hollow Points weren't the best quality pellets I could find. After all, it's only a pellet ... right?
 Then I finally thought about those "expensive" pellets.
Bought a 250 tin of JSB Exacts in 15.89g for my Genesis. I had changed the Beeman over to .177 and picked up some RWS Superdomes for it...and the difference was unbelievable.

 3 years later, I am now convinced, use the cheap stuff from Walmart for break-in but don't expect a lot. They're just too inconsistent... after the second 500 ct tin, out comes the good stuff and things start coming together.
 I still beat my head against the wall sometimes... on my latest Springer, a QB58, I struggled until I FINALLY found a pellet it likes.


 Summary,
- Sure you can get a Klunker, it happens like my Hatsan.
- People here LOVE to spend other peoples money.
- You will get better... be persistent and next thing you know it will cometogether.
 - you will have bigger / better guns but don't give up on the first one.

Below is a 3 shot group from that same $98 Beeman Silver Kodiak at 20 yards that has had NO mods what so ever, just "Shot Straight"....  sure I am braggin, but that just shows you don't need big money, just patience to learn the technique and break in a gun 

I agree the guns can be made to shoot.

I respectfully disagree that the OP's results are typical or average for the rifle he has.

I also don't believe we should influence him to settle for it.  We settled for it and that is why the QC is what it is.

A hundred dollars better spent on another.  If not a refund, at least an exchange.

Finally, three shots stacked could very well be luck.  If a three shot stacked group is your only evidence of success, I wouldn't call it that.  This gentleman is obviously trying to settle in on one gun with a $200 budget-  not a bunch if $100 ones.  Remember- his accuracy is at 10 yards.  You can't hunt with "up to 3 inch" ten yard accuracy, and this is a hunting rifle.  Plain and simple- it should be returned.

My 2 cents based on my experience with no less than 7 B18/B19 variants, including two of the Crosman/Benjamin ilk with nitro pistons, as well as at least twice that many $100 breakbarrels.

As they say, your mileage may vary.

[Bryan Heimann]

Furthermore, If I were to recommend a rifle in the sub $100 price range to a member, it would be to choose carefully from the classifieds a rifle that has already been straightened out by another reputable member.  That, or be ready to tear right into whatever you buy.

[Hoosier Daddy]

Agree 100% Brian!
But think back to when you were starting here. If you and your gun were a shooter right out of the gate, I think that is the exception.
 Being a jerked over Powder Burner myself, I thought I could shoot anything well.
Springers, let alone Break-Barrels are a humbling experience to say the least.
 You want more pics for evidence of my personal experience? I can fill this page with pics of sub-dime groups.
 That Beeman Silver Kodiak X2 even partook in the off season match gates shooting 10M with very decent scores.
 Yes $200 will get you to the next level. But I feel $40 on 2000 higher grade pellets is money well spent before throwing in the towel on a airgun AFTER it is broke in.
As you say, YMMV

To the OP... have you read this?
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=51555.0


Edit: I just read your latest post.... coincidentally, I am now after the break barrel of my dreams. That Crosman Genesis I referred too is up for sale in the classified here for just what the OP is looking to spend. Hawke scope, GRT and PROVEN... just beautiful (in my eyes).

 

[RedAir]

Thank you all again for your time, I feel bad that this has taken so much of it.  But I really appreciate all the insight.

I am supporting the gun with a rested, open hand, at the balance point. I have read the excellent "Beginner's guide" post. I did clean the barrel before starting. I do sometimes get a whiff of smoke (~400 shots in), which seems odd, I might try patches with rubbing alcohol for cleaning the barrel again.

I don't think anyone has made unreasonable suggestions, along the lines of it being "too easy to spend other people's money"

I will admit I keep taking a peek at the low-end PCPs. I keep wondering if something in the <$250 range (even a refurb), plus a $30 pump, might be worth considering. The benefit being that you get rid of all the disruptive mechanics of a break-barrel springer. But I realize that, at the low end, I might just be trading one set of problems for another, while adding overhead (a pump, leaks, etc). Long-term durability would probably go down.

The new Nova Freedom (PCP with built-in pump) looks really nice, but is sadly above my price range. The Benjamin 392 does seem like a possible "compromise" choice. A proven multi-pump, with an FPS that's maybe around the RWS 34 (eg- lower than many gas springers). But I don't love the idea of a bunch of pumps required after every shot.

I will try to get better pellets. It's unfortunate that they're tough to find locally. I see that Walmart sells some better pellets (RWS Field Line Superpoint), with free shipping >$35. And I'll check at PA again.

[Horatio]

Bryan H, thank you for the advice. Unless I figure out some magic with the current gun, I'm probably going to order the 34. I'm tempted by the Hatsans, but worried about QC, and durability over time. It sounds like the 34 would last me as long as I wanted it to, with minimal risk of grabbing it a few years down the road, and having it not work.

I'm not opposed to spending more than my initial $100. Staying under $200 sounded good, but I'm willing to go higher if it's justified. But I'd like to find something that I can buy once, and maybe settle the issue, if you will (not then need to replace it due to a failure a year later, etc).

So far, I've been limited to CPHP and the Ruger Superpoints. People seem leery of buying pellets from Amazon, due to problems with damage in shipping. And I guess I'm just cheap, and paying $9 for shipping from Pyramyd Air has made me hold off so far on buying better pellets. Plus just being overwhelmed by the vast selection to pick from, and not knowing what's a good 1 or 2 types to try.

I missed it.

What gun did you end up with?

Sorry, this discussion has been long, my apologies. I bought a $100 Benjamin Prowler 2 weeks ago, and have been trying to get it shooting "accurately enough".

I’ve owned one NP B19. Was not happy with it. Maybe a 12lb trigger pull that wasn’t even crisp. Shot first cold shot to a completely different POI.

I say return it.

[Bryan Heimann]

I don't mind a bit.  Shooting is probably my favorite hobby and especially airguns.  Probably spend more time on the forum, not in this thread than another.

I don't think I have ever ordered premium .177 ammo for an air rifle.  Most places that carry pellets have a variety of .177.  Always been able to find .177 ammo on the shelf that yields acceptable (often very good) accuracy. Exception being the Winchester 1100 breakbarrel.  One exception!  And that gun not worthy.

I have to admit I wish I'd have tried some premium .177 ammunition. For sure I will in the near future.

.22 is a little bit tougher, usually only 1 or 2 types of .22 ammo on the shelves of stores nearby.  Still, Crosman HP's usually at least shoot okay in most everything.  So I have a supply of premium .22 on hand... but no .22 air rifle anymore!

The Benjamin 392 has it's own issues.  Mainly overspray in the muzzle.  Almost all of them have paint in the muzzle but it's an easy fix (acetone in a q tip)  and they are usually pretty accurate once you clean it out.  Power is indeed comparable to am is powered breakbarrel.  They are much louder than a breakbarrel though.

You have a lot of input and varying opinions here, I hope that it's been helpful, and does not "muddy the waters."

Best of luck.

[Eddie_E]

John, New England Airgun carries H&N and JSB pellets, just expect to pay $3 more than mail order prices. The range is about 8 miles down rte 495 in Hudson, MA.
 The most accurate pellet for the Prowler that I've seen on youtube was H&N barrcuda 21.14g pellet. I was waiting until spring to try that one myself because the NEAG range is strictly lead-free for indoor shooting. So I have been shooting GTO 11.75g indoors. GTO's are expensive at around $20, but it's better than freezing my arse off all Winter.

I also plan to try some JSB Diablo Jumbo heavy 18.13g as they seem to shoot better than average for most people.

[xtred1]

I have also bought pellets from AlchemyAirWerks when I just wanted a tin here and there. When I am working on what my gun likes. He is a vendor here on the forum. That has helped me sort things out. 

[Bryan Heimann]

A side note on the $220 RWS 34 .22 in wood.  It is a good deal.  Definitely a higher quality gun than an XS25. But in comparison to an XS25 with a full performance tune from Flying Dragon, probably about a draw to be honest.  The 34 is a higher quality gun overall, but will be a little rough out of the box and probably need some time to break in to overcome spring noise and etc.  A full professional tune from Flying Dragon is going to be smooth right out of the box, and a guaranteed performer that, for sure, you won't need to fix.

Edit- Unless of course, you are ready and willing to work on your own rifles.  But  again "your mileage may vary".

[19Sheridan57]

The new Nova Freedom (PCP with built-in pump) looks really nice, but is sadly above my price range. The Benjamin 392 does seem like a possible "compromise" choice. A proven multi-pump, with an FPS that's maybe around the RWS 34 (eg- lower than many gas springers). But I don't love the idea of a bunch of pumps required after every shot.

   They do not need a " bunch of pumps " after each shot. I shoot rifles that are very similar to 392's. 90% of the time, all my shots are done with 3 quick, easy pumps. 5 pumps take care of squirrels & a couple more for long distance shots , or large game. I have owned pumpers for 60 years.

[RedAir]

A side note on the $220 RWS 34 .22 in wood.  It is a good deal.  Definitely a higher quality gun than an XS25. But in comparison to an XS25 with a full performance tune from Flying Dragon, probably about a draw to be honest.  The 34 is a higher quality gun overall, but will be a little rough out of the box and probably need some time to break in to overcome spring noise and etc.  A full professional tune from Flying Dragon is going to be smooth right out of the box, and a guaranteed performer that, for sure, you won't need to fix.

Edit- Unless of course, you are ready and willing to work on your own rifles.  But  again "your mileage may vary".

Heh, that starts making my options tricky I'm sure the tune is great, but my concern is that it's starting with what could be considered an inferior product, and then works on improving it. The fully-tuned XS25 becomes the price of the 34, but it still doesn't have a scope. So in a way, it's even more expensive than the original. I think I'm OK with the idea of a 34 needing some time to settle in, and having a lifetime warranty behind it, as appealing as the full-tune is. But I have no experience with either one, of course.

I work on my outdoor equipment, etc, so I'm not opposed to tinkering. If the 34 needed stuff that I could do without special tools, then maybe I could do at least a crude version of improving it, in terms of smoothing out spring edges, or things like that.

[Bryan Heimann]

The difference is with the fdar full tune, anything inferioris gonna be replaced.  It's like getting a gun built of cherry picked parts, then tuned.

The winner in overall quality still goes to the 34.  But value for dollar it's close.

[RedAir]

They do not need a " bunch of pumps " after each shot. I shoot rifles that are very similar to 392's. 90% of the time, all my shots are done with 3 quick, easy pumps. 5 pumps take care of squirrels & a couple more for long distance shots , or large game. I have owned pumpers for 60 years.

Thank you, that's good to know. Do you have to aim differently at 10-20 yards, based on 3 pumps, 5, etc? Do you have a sense of the fps with the different # of pumps?

[Bryan Heimann]

They do not need a " bunch of pumps " after each shot. I shoot rifles that are very similar to 392's. 90% of the time, all my shots are done with 3 quick, easy pumps. 5 pumps take care of squirrels & a couple more for long distance shots , or large game. I have owned pumpers for 60 years.

Thank you, that's good to know. Do you have to aim differently at 10-20 yards, based on 3 pumps, 5, etc? Do you have a sense of the fps with the different # of pumps?

With a little experimentation, you can get it dialed in so everything from 4-8 pumps still hits inside a inch at ten meters.  At least that has been my experience between 2 392's and 2 397's over the years (lifetime).

Get it dialed in right with pellets it likes, you get one hole at the bottom of a 1" target on 4 or 5 pumps, one hole at or near the top of it on 8 pumps, and a good 18 or 20 metersusing a 6 o clock hold and a full 8 pumps.  Might extend that another 5 meters with a center hold technique, but the center hold will get you a hair high up close.

Seems like about a 5 meter zero at max charge, using a 6 o clokc hold on a 1/4" tiny target, gets you that good 20 useable meters of trajectory.

Edit- yes a 397 might get you literally a couple more meters.  But these pumpers make their power in .22.  Very capable hunter in either, much better in .22.

[RedFeather]

Be aware that pumpers are not too easily scoped. I haven't followed Sheridans to see if there have been any significant changes but they used to have an issue with barrel separation (from the air tube) with some of the clamp on mounts. And they can benefit from a Super Sear to improve the trigger. So you can figure the cost of the gun plus.

There's really no free lunch with airguns. A decent springer will generally run you over $200, although Mike's clones at Flying Dragon are very capable. For your uses, one of his tuned B25's will get you started and have enough quality to keep you going. If .177, get a sampler pellet kit from Pyramyd, etc, to see what it likes. Air rifles are often "pellet fussy". Stay away from heavy weight pellets. While, yes, you can shoot them, they often wear a spring out sooner (breaking) and then you are faced with sending it off for repair or building a decent spring compressor to do it yourself. (The GTA has great plans for one of those, BTW.)  For example, you can have a decent gun like the bamboo stocked 25 with Mike's basic tune. $85 for the gun and $40 the tune. Or get the $100 full tune. You will have to scope it. For $130 he has the 25 with sights and a conventional stock. Maybe shoot irons until you save up for a scope? These are really short range guns so using sights is, essentially, what they were originally designed for.

If Cabelas still offers that Diana 34p combo at $150, jump on it with both feet. I looked for it the other day but could not find it.

[RedAir]

RedFeather, thanks, I think the $150 Cabela's .177 34 deal is gone. I couldn't find it yesterday either.

Interesting point about a scope maybe not really being needed. My current gun doesn't have open sights, so I can't really get a feel for anything but the scope. I will say that, trying shooting off-hand today, standing, with the scope at 9X, was eye-opening, in terms of how much I was moving around And that was only at 10m. You would need to be fairly stable just to keep the scope accurately on something small, 20-30 yards away. Or get better at having a stable form, I guess.