Rifle suggestion for backyard plinking & pests?

[subscriber]

somehow Amazon has it categorized as not shippable to Mass (other rings are ok), so I would need to work around that.

Buy it from Pyramyd and check out via your amazon ID  .  At least, that choice is offered to me.  Doesn't seem to bump the price...

[subscriber]

Get the 34

The RWS 34 purchaser reviews on Pyramyd shows the right kind of histogram:  A spike at 5 stars, trailing to almost no complaints very quickly: 
https://www.pyramydair.com/product-all-reviews/m/diana-34p-air-rifle-synthetic-stock/1041

Contrast that with the new Benjamin Fortitude:  Histogram is too flat, with too many unhappy ratings; and too few "very happy with that" ratings: 
https://www.pyramydair.com/product-all-reviews/m/benjamin-fortitude-gen-2-pcp-air-rifle-regulated/4569

This means the RWS 34 is a low risk buy, and the Fortitude is likely to disappoint in some way...  That is not to say that the best 34s are "better" than the best Fortitudes:  A good exemplar of a given PCP (sporting a pressure regulator, as does the Fortitude) will always be easier to shoot well than an equivalently good springer.

[Bryan Heimann]

Wow, that's awesome! Is that the .177? Their ~$150 price on that one is fantastic. I just wish they could price the .22 similarly, or even just under $200. At nearly $300, it's a good bit more than I was hoping to spend. But I keep reading great things about them, enjoy it! What's a dropper mount?

Drooper, sorry.  Breakbarrels often have droop, meaning the barrel points slightly downward, usually not enough to notice by looking at it.  It matters with your scope adjustments, you could run out of adjustment before your gun is zeroed.

Solution- drooper mount, think of it like a 20 moa rail or etc.

Also can shim the scope rings or bend the barrel.  But that takes some trial and error might booger it up.

[Back_Roads]

 If I recall right, the UTG scopes usually come with lower profile weaver style rings, a 11mm to weaver adapter rail would be needed if your gun has 11mm and not weaver rail.

[Eddie_E]

John, a drooper mount points the scope down at a 7 degree angle to match some euro guns that run out of scope adjustment (Diana and older Beemans). I have the UTG drooper version of the dovetail to weaver adapter on my wife's Beeman.

I'm using a one piece scope mount on my Prowler .22 with a heavy 6~24-50 CVLife scope. Either way would work, but the one piece with a stop screw eliminates all possible issues with scope movement. The one piece does add several ounces to the weight though.

[RedAir]

Subscriber, thanks, I didn't know you could use an Amazon login to check out at Pyramyd. I ordered the 1-piece UTG mount (before seeing this), Amazon is shipping it to a friend's house.  Pyramyd is having a free-shipping sale until 3AM on 11/8 (not sure how common that is), so maybe I can figure out some pellets to order from them.

Thanks for explaining the drooper mounts. I'd heard of droop mounts, to help compensate for barrel sag on break-barrels, but I wasn't sure if this was something different.

Bryan H, I assume yours is the $150 .177 "RWS Pro Model 34 P Air Rifle/Scope Combo"? That's certainly a heck of a deal. I do see Cabela's has a $230 34 in .22, "RWS Model 34 Scoped Air Rifle", but I don't know what it gives up vs the $335 Pro version in .22. I admit that my preference would be to stay with .22, it seems like the extra pellet energy would be useful for things that aren't paper.

[Potpie]

I agree with Bryan the RWS 34P is the best deal going I have a 34 Classic wood stock and its way more hold sensitive then the P in synthetic I like my 34P so much I got my second one yesterday at the range you'll be shooting 177 is fine and shoots flatter then the 22 just my 2cents   

[Bryan Heimann]

Subscriber, thanks, I didn't know you could use an Amazon login to check out at Pyramyd. I ordered the 1-piece UTG mount (before seeing this), Amazon is shipping it to a friend's house.  They're having a free-shipping sale until 3AM on 11/8 (not sure how common that is), so maybe I can figure out some pellets to order from them.

Thanks for explaining the drooper mounts. I'd heard of droop mounts, to help compensate for barrel sag on break-barrels, but I wasn't sure if this was something different.

Bryan H, I assume yours is the $150 .177 "RWS Pro Model 34 P Air Rifle/Scope Combo"? That's certainly a heck of a deal. I do see Cabela's has a $230 34 in .22, "RWS Model 34 Scoped Air Rifle", but I don't know what it gives up vs the $335 Pro version in .22. I admit that my preference would be to stay with .22, it seems like the extra pellet energy would be useful for things that aren't paper.

The 34 isn’t any more powerful in .22 than .177.  Energy is about the same, more velocity in.177 more weight/mass in .22 but they will kill about the same.

Apples to oranges, but the Stoeger x10/x20 series of rifles are at about the exact same power level, even similar swept volume and stroke.  I have owned several of them in .177 and .22, not a noticeable difference in the way they kill.

Realistically, on anything bigger than a cottontail or tree squirrel you’ll be using a brain shot and the .177 makes it easier to do with the flat trajectory.

Just my own opinion.

Edit- the .22 version for a little over $200 is a good deal too.

I think the pro compact .22 is a typo, the pro compact has never been imported in .177 in the U.S.

To me, the main difference between the pro and the classic is the pro has no sights.  Those scopes are going to break within 2 thousand shots.  Most scopes do.  Better have open sights.

Personally I just prefer open sights anyway.  I will mount the scope for a pellet test and go back to open sights for squirrel hunting.  Put the scope back on for hft, just long enough to get my eye on for a match, make it last as long as I can.

If I sell every other rifle including the HW35, I might get some better glass sooner than later.  But really for what?  So I can save it and shoot my preferred open sights?

[RedAir]

I admit you guys have me thinking about the RWS. The .177 is quite a deal. Though it looks like that one doesn't have a muzzle suppressor, that's only shown in the $335 .22 34 P Combo.

I still prefer the idea of .22, even if it's just to be able to hit harder with something in a live trap (I don't like the idea of relocating, and it's sometimes prohibited anyhow). I was surprised at how similar the muzzle energies were in 2 hypothetical setups, at 1,000 fps and 7 grains, and 800 fps and 14 grains, I figured the .22 would be a lot higher.

But it seems like the .22 might maintain its energy better over distance? Making a bigger difference than the energies at the muzzle would suggest. I'm not a ballistics person. But air resistance goes up with the square of speed, so a faster moving pellet will slow down more quickly. And kinetic energy changes with the square of speed, so that slowdown would really reduce the pellet's energy. Chronograph testing at different distances would answer this energy question easily, of course, but I can't do that.

At any rate, the 34 is definitely food for thought, thank you. The $230 .22 "RWS Model 34 Scoped Air Rifle" would still keep the larger pellet, without as-dramatic a price increase as the $335 .22 combo. I can't quite tell how the $230 .22 package is different than the $150 .177 deal. It's a wooden stock, which I don't really care about. Both have open sights, which is nice. And the RWS lifetime warranty would be a nice feature for either one.

One thing I started thinking about is durability over time. Being realistic for me, this will end up not being used all the time. So if I went to use it in 2 years, and a gas piston had leaked and lost pressure, I might be kinda stuck (I gather that for some brands, like Hatsan, new pistons may be tough to buy). A pure-spring gun may lose *some* force over time, but probably not all of it. And you could replace/upgrade the spring if needed. So I may need to consider metal-spring guns, and not just gas piston.

My 3-12x44 scope arrived today, it's bigger than I was expecting. I should get the mount in a few days, I look forward to trying it, and seeing if there's any improvement in accuracy. Again, thank you all for your time, suggestions, and advice.

[PlacidBlueDog]

I would reccomend the 34p. I have one in .22 and it shoots very well. Mine is 8 years old now and there is no power difference. You'd probably see a flatter trajectory with .177

[Marc In Iowa]

My 3-12x44 scope arrived today, it's bigger than I was expecting.

For a more compact, lighter scope, I really like the new Bug Buster 3-12x32 (the accessory focus wheel is very nice too). It's regular price is higher than the sale price on the bigger scope but Black Friday is about to arrive ...

[RedAir]

I got the scope mounted, with the UTG 1-piece mount. I think maybe a droop mount might be better, I used much of the vertical adjustment (15 of the 17 that's marked, I think) to get it close to 0, at 10m. But it's a crisp image, which is a welcome change from the Center Point 4x32 non-AO, which was always fuzzy.

My groups improved some with the scope, I'd say, which is good. I then found the barrel pivot screw was loose, so I tightened & Loctited that.

After tightening it, I did 5 shots last night (bad weather), they were a mess, 3.5" from a rest at 10m (11 yards), with CPHP, and the new scope set to 4x.

Today I tried some more, same distance, pellets, etc. Groups of 5 (artillery-style) were around 1-1.1". I tried a tight grip (pulled tight into my shoulder, etc), and got around 1.5", so I loosened up again.

I zoomed the scope in, to 9x, and got a best of 0.8", to 2.1" for the worst. The weather is cool (maybe 45F), it seems like the first group of a session is larger than the rest, maybe it needs to warm up from shooting? That's OK for targets, but if you weren't aiming at paper, it wouldn't be very helpful.

The only other pellets I could get locally are Ruger Superpoints, they seem to shoot similarly to the CPHP.

I'm leaning towards ordering the Cabela's $230 RWS 34, and hoping for better results. If its included 4x32 AO scope was OK, maybe I could return the UTG, and save some money. The Hatsan 87 QE would have higher fps, it seems, and some are apparently still quite accurate, while also being cheaper than the 34. But I worry a bit about their QC, the warranty is shorter, and I wonder about the piston leaking over time.

[Bryan Heimann]

I got the scope mounted, with the UTG 1-piece mount. I think maybe a droop mount might be better, I used much of the vertical adjustment (15 of the 17 that's marked, I think) to get it close to 0, at 10m. But it's a crisp image, which is a welcome change from the Center Point 4x32 non-AO, which was always fuzzy.

My groups improved some with the scope, I'd say, which is good. I then found the barrel pivot screw was loose, so I tightened & Loctited that.

After tightening it, I did 5 shots last night (bad weather), they were a mess, 3.5" from a rest at 10m (11 yards), with CPHP, and the new scope set to 4x.

Today I tried some more, same distance, pellets, etc. Groups of 5 (artillery-style) were around 1-1.1". I tried a tight grip (pulled tight into my shoulder, etc), and got around 1.5", so I loosened up again.

I zoomed the scope in, to 9x, and got a best of 0.8", to 2.1" for the worst. The weather is cool (maybe 45F), it seems like the first group of a session is larger than the rest, maybe it needs to warm up from shooting? That's OK for targets, but if you weren't aiming at paper, it wouldn't be very helpful.

The only other pellets I could get locally are Ruger Superpoints, they seem to shoot similarly to the CPHP.

I'm leaning towards ordering the Cabela's $230 RWS 34, and hoping for better results. If its included 4x32 AO scope was OK, maybe I could return the UTG, and save some money.

I don't have a problem with UTG on the low end.  I've owned and used a lot of their cheap fixed scopes.  About as good as you can get for a scope that holds up to a spring gun in their price range.

That said, the 4x32 AO that came with my 34P doesn't give up a thing to UTG, for sure.  Also, the drooper that it came with lines up/centers beautifully on the rifle.  It was literally made for it, so it makes sense. 

Why return the UTG scope?  I mean, if it works... hang on to it.  Piston guns- spring or gas- break scopes.  It's a fact, you'll have to buy another before too long if you like to shoot.

[RedAir]

Well, regarding returning the UTG, this little undertaking started with a $100 WM purchase. Then an $80 scope (hoping that could make the original gun significantly more accurate), and possibly a change to a $230 gun. If I didn't return the UTG, I'd now be at $310, if I got the 34. I realize that's still not much for people who are into this, but it's triple where I started

If the included scope met my needs, I could save $80 (plus the mount). And if I *did* outgrow/break the RWS scope, I'd be even better-informed when I went to replace it. This is all still hypothetical for now, anyhow.

I do kinda wish I'd bought a 1" scope, vs 30mm. I went 30mm figuring it gives more room for better optics, but it means I can't use the mount that comes with the 34, for instance. Oh well, live and learn.

[HunterWhite]

Rabbit hole !

[Bryan Heimann]

Well, regarding returning the UTG, this little undertaking started with a $100 WM purchase. Then an $80 scope (hoping that could make the original gun significantly more accurate), and possibly a change to a $230 gun. If I didn't return the UTG, I'd now be at $310, if I got the 34. I realize that's still not much for people who are into this, but it's triple where I started

If the included scope met my needs, I could save $80 (plus the mount). And if I *did* outgrow/break the RWS scope, I'd be even better-informed when I went to replace it. This is all still hypothetical for now, anyhow.

I do kinda wish I'd bought a 1" scope, vs 30mm. I went 30mm figuring it gives more room for better optics, but it means I can't use the mount that comes with the 34, for instance. Oh well, live and learn.

$300 is a pretty big deal to me, and I totally understand.  I am not one of those guys that has money for have 2 or 3 PCP's and support equipment, etc.  That's why I am all over this 34 deal.  It's QUALITY!  There is only one other gun for less than $300 that offers as much or better quality as a 34 right now, and that's an HW30S.  And that gun is not quite powerful enough for serious hunting and pest control.

That's also why I really don't care for PCP's.  To get the same quality and durability as a Diana 34 in a PCP you are going to spend quite a bit of money.  I would say you'd spend well over $1,000 on a PCP and support equipment to get near the same kind of quality with half the reliability as a lowly spring piston 34P.  You might find guns more accurate, better triggers, etc with an "okay for now" pump for under a grand but the overall quality and durability won't touch it.  And shooting offhand in the woods the 34 will probably hang with anything.

I myself am trimming my collection back to one gun right now.  I was gonna keep one of my old guns with my 34 but I am not.  I might keep a cheap pumper or two because I can't get nothing for them.  Anything I can get something for is gonna be sold.  The 34 with the supplied scope is fully satisfactory for my needs, and the rifle itself moreso.  I just need one good gun. 

I have one good deer rifle, one good shotgun, one good air rifle.  A nice rimfire for my oldest daughter, might get another one for my youngest next year. (i feel a good air rifle covers rimfire and airgun for my own purposes).  Getting them both bb guns this year to cover backyard plinking for them.  Have another nice shotgun for my wife.  Altogether that's more than I need and covers all my bases and them some.

There isn't a really nice scope that fits my criteria within budget.  I'd have to drop at least over $200 to get a scope with o.k. glass, durable enough, adequate magnification, and correct reticle for my purposes.  I want a scope with which I could hang in HFT, that is durable enough to shoot daily on a breakbarrel and get me through a couple of years.  I don't have money to buy and break scopes all the "dang" time, or even to ship them for warranty service.  So I'd just as soon stick with the fixed scope and the open sights the 34 comes with.  Open sights are great, holds zero, crystal clear haha.

Give that scope a real good look and compare the optical quality of it it to something in the store of similar price, like a bushnell or something.  Anything on display you can look through.  If you feel like you got ripped off after that, return it.  Definitely return the rifle.  I have had lots of B18/B19 variant guns a whole lot better than that.  And that's what your gun is, a B18/B19 variant.  At 10 meters after a tin of ammo it ought to do at least consistently better than 2 inch groups regardless of your experience with a spring gun if you are perusing the forums and trying your best, experimenting with ammo and etc. 

Now the wrong ammo your gun don't like could throw groups all to *(&^!  Ammo your gun likes vs ammo it don't the difference between a ragged hole and barely on paper insome cases.

The 34 is good enough to be your one gun if it needs to.  It's built to last, easy to work on, easy to find top quality consumable parts for,  at a good price.  If you screw around with cheap guns for the next few years you'll have fun and experience a lot of satisfaction from fixing them, haha.  You'll eventuallyhave to work on any air rifle regardless if you shoot often.

Man, I am getting way way way off point and this is a novel.  Just let me tell you one more time, and I'm gonna be blunt-

You would be a fool not to get that 34 for the price, all things considered, if you can still get a refund on the subpar stuff you already bought.

[Horatio]

I missed it.

What gun did you end up with?

[RedAir]

Bryan H, thank you for the advice. Unless I figure out some magic with the current gun, I'm probably going to order the 34. I'm tempted by the Hatsans, but worried about QC, and durability over time. It sounds like the 34 would last me as long as I wanted it to, with minimal risk of grabbing it a few years down the road, and having it not work.

I'm not opposed to spending more than my initial $100. Staying under $200 sounded good, but I'm willing to go higher if it's justified. But I'd like to find something that I can buy once, and maybe settle the issue, if you will (not then need to replace it due to a failure a year later, etc).

So far, I've been limited to CPHP and the Ruger Superpoints. People seem leery of buying pellets from Amazon, due to problems with damage in shipping. And I guess I'm just cheap, and paying $9 for shipping from Pyramyd Air has made me hold off so far on buying better pellets. Plus just being overwhelmed by the vast selection to pick from, and not knowing what's a good 1 or 2 types to try.

I missed it.

What gun did you end up with?

Sorry, this discussion has been long, my apologies. I bought a $100 Benjamin Prowler 2 weeks ago, and have been trying to get it shooting "accurately enough".

[outdoorman]

I still prefer the idea of .22, even if it's just to be able to hit harder with something in a live trap (I don't like the idea of relocating, and it's sometimes prohibited anyhow). I was surprised at how similar the muzzle energies were in 2 hypothetical setups, at 1,000 fps and 7 grains, and 800 fps and 14 grains, I figured the .22 would be a lot higher.

  The advantage of .22 vs .177 for hunting is that with the .22 you have more surface area and therefore more knock down or stun capability, a larger wound channel and less likely for pass through. It's also more satisfying for plinking in my opinion when shooting bottles/jars, cans, spinner and reactive targets.

[Jeff Marshall]

the preferred way to chose a replacement spring is by Wire diameter, number of coils and spring guide diameter.

Don't forget coil spacing.   That and the number of coils is a direct measure of how long the spring is.  For a given wire thickness, that is what determines spring rate.   Coil spacing also affects how much load the spring can take before being coil bound.  And it affects how stressed the spring is when the air rifle is cocked; thus the likelihood of sagging or early fatigue failure.

Yes, if the spring has a tight fitting guide inside, then the ID is more important than the OD.  On the other hand, the OD is the ID plus two times the wire diameter... 

The difference between nominal diameter and actual diameter may be +- 0.005".  Worse for a cheap spring.

If the risk of spending $25 on the wrong spring seems too high, I would contact the vendor and ask them to measure the spring ID with a plug gauge; or at least a caliper...

Coil spacing or length of an uninstalled spring is a non factor. It is assumed that a new spring will take a set the first time the gun is cocked.

A replacement spring should fit the spring guide snugly to tight regardless of whether the factory spring does.

Check out James Maccari's spring matching page. JM has been making the best airgun springs for many years:
http://www.airrifleheadquarters.com/spring-matching-service.html