Rifle suggestion for backyard plinking & pests?

[RedAir]

Hi all, I'm new here, and to airguns. I do have some handguns experience.

I'm looking for a rifle for backyard fun (plinking & informal targets), and occasionally dealing with pests, like squirrels. A .22 seemed like a good choice. I bought a Benjamin Prowler from Walmart last week, the reviews seemed decent. It's $100, so I certainly wasn't expecting anything fancy.

I'm having some trouble with accuracy, but I can't tell if it's me, or the rifle/scope. I cleaned the barrel before using it, and have about 225 shots through it, Crosman Premier Hollowpoints (haven't gotten to try anything else). I'm trying to hold it lightly, attempting an artillery hold. I've shot off-hand, as well as resting it on things. My best so far was seated, resting it on something on an open palm. At 10m (11yd), 5 shots spread about 1.2". Earlier today, 10 shots (standing, with it resting on something) spread about 1.7", still at 10m.

I guess I'd hope to be doing better than that. There are no open sights, so I can't tell if it's just me, the scope, the barrel, or something else. But I'm wondering if I should return it and get something different.

I'd like to stay around $200 or less. I do realize that's still pretty low. I do like the simplicity of cocking a spring-type gun, vs repeated pumps. And gas pistons seem to offer some advantages over metal springs, so I've been mainly looking at those. Something quiet would be good, to avoid bothering neighbors. PCP sounds great, but I'm not looking to spend $400+.

After a bunch of reading, I'm leaning towards the .22 Hatsan 87 QE, which is around $180 at Pyramyd. If there are suggestions (either for a rifle, or my technique), I'd welcome them. Thanks!

[Earl]

Shooting break barrels is difficult and confusing for me.
I am an old experienced shooter and I still cannot shoot break barrels accurately.
The most accurate spring powered gun that I have is a Browning Leverage.
Crosman Premier Hollowpoints are not accurate in any of my guns.
JSB 8.44 grain .177 pellets give excellent accuracy in several of my guns.
The Beeman P17 is a very accurate and inexpensive pistol.
Walmart has the Umarex Fusion for $122 if you like CO2.  It is accurate and quiet and a bargain.  Watch the Youtube videos to learn how to change the CO2 cartridges.
https://www.walmart.com/ip/UMAREX-FUSION-CO2-POWERED-PELLET-AIR-RIFLE-AIRGUN/25174732
Walmart gives you 90 days to try out an airgun and if you do not like it, return it for a full refund.

[Wayne52]

I agree with you Earl ! I've got one break barrel myself but now I am a devout pcp shooter pretty much when it comes to hunting.  Southern Gunner did a recent video about his only break barrel which is the Crosman Nitro venom and I was actually amazed at how accurately he can shoot that gun.  He says you gotta know the gun and he definitely does.  I threw in the towel on mine when I cut myself on the scope right between my eyes, that was enough for me.

[subscriber]

Pyramyd's buyer rating seems good for that Hatsan:  https://www.pyramydair.com/product-all-reviews/m/hatsan-87-qe-vortex-air-rifle/3650


I have a Slavia 634 on the way for $158 from CZ-USA:  https://shop.cz-usa.com/ProductDetail/07009_Slavia-634--Cal-45mm-Airgun--Red-Stock

You will find that they are extrmely popular on this forum:  https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?board=173.0

That is because they are very accurate springers for the money (due in part to their CZ made barrels).  A recent post described the Slavia 634 thus; "as accurate as an HW30S, and as powerful as an HW50S; for half the money".

Now, these Slavia airguns are "old stock" in the USA.  They are no longer made by Slavia.  Some people are concerned about parts, but springs and piston seals are similar to common airguns. 

The only thing I don't like is what some would call a feature:  The barrel has a manual latch that must be pulled before it unlocks to cock it; just like an HW35.  This does mean there is no effort to "break" the barrel once unlatched, and that the barrel has zero play when closed.  The reason I don't like this is because I am not used to it.  Once I use it I may change my mind.

Anyway, if you are looking for sub $200 and "accurate" the Slavia may be worth consideration.  The other sources for them have already dried up...

[DanD]

Hi, John. I suggest trying some different pellets with your Prowler. I've had many guns, including a Benjamin Titan that don't shoot Crosman pellets well,  but are accurate with H&N, JSB, and/or RWS. My .22 Titan was a tack driver with H&N pellets and disappointing with Crosman pellets.
Even if you decide you want another gun (and another, and another...) you will want a selection of pellets for testing.
At a bare minimum, I recommend keeping a tin of H&N Field Target Trophy, RWS Superdomes, and JSB Exact on hand.
Other well performing .22 pellets include Hatsan Vortex Express, H&N Sniper Light and Baracuda Green, RWS SuperPoint and Super Hollowpoint, JSB RS and Predator GTO.
Have fun!

[Buster95]

Pyramyd's buyer rating seems good for that Hatsan:  https://www.pyramydair.com/product-all-reviews/m/hatsan-87-qe-vortex-air-rifle/3650


I have a Slavia 634 on the way for $158 from CZ-USA:  https://shop.cz-usa.com/ProductDetail/07009_Slavia-634--Cal-45mm-Airgun--Red-Stock

You will find that they are extrmely popular on this forum:  https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?board=173.0

That is because they are very accurate springers for the money (due in part to their CZ made barrels).  A recent post described the Slavia 634 thus; "as accurate as an HW30S, and as powerful as an HW50S; for half the money".

Now, these Slavia airguns are "old stock" in the USA.  They are no longer made by Slavia.  Some people are concerned about parts, but springs and piston seals are similar to common airguns. 

The only thing I don't like is what some would call a feature:  The barrel has a manual latch that must be pulled before it unlocks to cock it; just like an HW35.  This does mean there is no effort to "break" the barrel once unlatched, and that the barrel has zero play when closed.  The reason I don't like this is because I am not used to it.  Once I use it I may change my mind.

Anyway, if you are looking for sub $200 and "accurate" the Slavia may be worth consideration.  The other sources for them have already dried up...

I have a Slavia 634 with a wood stock and its an excellent rifle. The Slavia are now made by ZVS IMPEX with a new name Perun 634, concerning the parts for the 634 I ordered many parts directly from CZ and the shipping was not bad at all.

subscriber what's seals and springs are compatible with the 634?

[19Sheridan57]

   I am used to shooting Sheridans, but I do own & shoot a couple of break barrel rifles . I hate to see you waste your money , and I think that even if you get a new, more expensive Springer, you are going to be dissatisfied, for awhile. They all seem to need breaking in , [ more than 225 shots] , & you need to learn to hold the rifle ever which way it needs to be held for accuracy. I have one that needs to be held firmly, like a high powered rifle. Another , needs a very light hold, to be accurate. I think more shooting , practicing different ways of holding, trying different pellets, etc.  should be done first. Many people are able to shoot that rifle with very decent accuracy.

[SteveP-52]

Included scopes tend not to be the greatest and are usually included to make you think you're getting a good deal. The only one I've gotten that I still have is the Umarex 3-9x32 that came with my Umarex Fuel.
You might consider trying some better glass and see if that helps things before springing for a new rifle and there are some good ones that can be had for under $100 so you aren't emptying your wallet to get one.

[Eddie_E]

I have a Prowler in .22 and it took well over 500 pellets to fully break in the barrel. Mine will shoot a 3/4 in group with the Premier HP's at 25 yards now. Mine grouped like yours out of the box. I switched to a different scope mostly for magnification, but I think the eye piece on the stock scope was moving with recoil. I also found more accuracy when I installed a 5x8x2.5 bearing on the trigger pin. At the range I was forced to buy better quality pellets and it did group better. It's definitely better than my Gamo or any other sub $220 springer I've tried. I don't think a cheap Hatsan would do any better. Springers have to be heavy German under-levers (HW77k/97K )or recoil-less designs like a FWB300 or Diana 54 at way over your budget or a low power HW30 at slightly over your budget to do any better.

I'd recommend finishing off a few tins of Premiers and then trying some JSB 15.89g or 18.1g pellets and some H&N FTT pellets. That Prowler is capable of nickle size groups at 25 yards with the right pellet.

[Stinger177]

I have a Prowler and a CZ634 as well.

We all know that triggers make a huge difference in accuracy. First thing I did to the Prowler was do the trigger/bearing mod and install a longer trigger adjust screw. I also have a GRTIII trigger for it that I haven't installed yet, but the bearing and screw mod made a world of difference to me, so I can't wait to try the GRT.

Only thing I did to the 634 was remove the upper leaf spring which made a slight difference. Between the two I think the cycle of the 634 is a bit smoother.

If you decide to keep the Prowler and do the bearing mod be VERY careful as the wrong size bearing can make it a dangerous trigger. There are multiple links on the Web showing how to do this. Most people seem to leave the trigger return spring out, but I kept mine in as did the person in this post: https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=128722.0

Here's another that basically says the same thing: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?325337-Crossman-trigger-job

Just did a quick search and I think this is the video link I used:

[RedAir]

Thank you all for the info and suggestions! I appreciate it.

I will have to do some reading on the Slavia 634. I have a CZ pistol which I'm happy with. But the idea of getting something that could be difficult for parts is a bit disconcerting. Internet forums like this are also such a great resource, so that I tend to go for products/brands with more users, and therefore more support. The Czech gate here seems rather quiet (one page of posts goes back 11 months). Maybe that's just because they're awesome and don't need much help.

I can deal with a learning curve, but I admit it's less appealing if I'm not sure whether my particular rifle has an accuracy payoff at the end of that curve rainbow. And I have no other context or experience to compare against.  I did install a longer M3x8 screw the other day for the trigger, which significantly reduced the very-long trigger pull. I haven't really looked into the bearing mod.

I will try some other pellets. Sadly, Amazon won't ship to MA, which somewhat reduces my options for selection & free shipping. I shot more of the CPHP today, seated, resting the rifle on my knee & palm. Today I got four groups of 5-shots each, at 10m (11 yards), ranging from 1.8" to 2.7". Two that hit quite high in the 2.7" group felt kinda loose in the breech. I've been trying to hold the rifle very lightly, to let it move. I should try a tighter hold, to see what happens.

I got some Ruger Superpoints today at Walmart (the only other .22 they had). Shot three groups of 5, 1.6" to 2.8", still at 10m.

Either something is kinda going on with hardware, or my skills just leave a lot to be desired And it may just be me, I realize. I had thought WM had a 14 day return policy for these, but apparently it's 90, so that give me more time to try things.

I could buy a different scope, I'm just not sure I want to do that, in case I ended up buying something different anyhow which included a scope. I realize my budget is very meager, vs people who are really into this, but $100 for a scope is more than I'd prefer to spend. I have found that you can buy refurbished Hatsans, which would not include a scope, so perhaps not paying for their bundled scope would allow buying a better one instead.

[Novagun]

Well Redair. I would say you are doing pretty well so far with a new rifle that is not broken in . It takes time to learn to shoot a springer and they can be very accurate.
Not much difference if any between break barrel and lever cocking. It takes more than 225 pellets to learn to shoot a spring powered gun.
I don't decry pcps but not for me. Too much bother with air tanks and o rings and on it goes.

[Stinger177]

First off, I don't pretend to know nearly as much about A/G's as most of the members here, but I have learned a lot from them.

I do have a couple thoughts on your last post though:

I think the lack of posts in the Czech gate is mostly because not that many people have them and, they are not so easily obtained these days. Those that are available cost 50% more than a year ago when it seemed that vendors were unloading them. For example, I bought one of the last few in stock anywhere back in December '17 for $104 shipped. They are still great rifles IMO, and though parts aren't readily available (if at all) I don't expect mine to krap out on me anytime soon.

You don't want pellets from Amazon anyway due to their poor packaging. Do a search and you'll find plenty of threads in here about that.

You didn't mention (or maybe I didn't see it) what range you're getting those groups at. Depending on that, and the newness of not only your gun, but you and the gun combined, those may not be all that bad of grouping, but here is where I definitely defer to those who know better.

There are very few scopes that come as a combo that are worth even mounting except for looks maybe. I have scopes on my guns that are worth more than the gun itself, but I figure it's worth it if I can shoot better with it. I also have scopes that were great bargains for what they are, but those deals don't come up very often. Most of my scopes are Leapers UTG and there's a deal going on right now if you decide that a nicer scope is where you want to go. First post in this thread will get you there: https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=150234.0

Just my 1-1/2 cents worth. Hope it helps.

Dennis

[Bryan Heimann]

Definitely return it and get something different.  I normally don’t buy spring or gas ram guns without iron sights.

[subscriber]

subscriber what's seals and springs are compatible with the 634?

Gamo piston seal, apparently.  I have seen several threads on GTA about springs and other parts, but did not save them.

If and when the time comes, I would just measure the "tired" spring and find one with the same OD, wire diameter and number of coils (or cut to length).  The new spring should be longer than the old spring.  Pyramyd sells a range of springs, as do many other airgun specialists.

[RedAir]

Thanks all. Stinger177, I edited my last post to add that those groups were at 10m, 11 yards.

Good info on the scopes deals, thank you. I see on UTG's site that they have scopes for air rifles:
(Never mind, I can't post links yet)

It looks like maybe those model #'s linked in the other thread may not be in UTG's Air Rifles scopes list? But it's a bit tough for me to tell.

This UTG scope, "UTG 3-9X32 1" BugBuster Scope, AO", is $60, which is even a nicer price. I just don't know if it's good, and good for spring guns.
(again, sorry, can't post a link).

[screwwork]

John,
Say hi to new members in the welcome to GTA board and you'll be able to post links/photos very quickly.. I'm no help on springers though.  Keep an eye on the member classified ads.

[Jeff Marshall]

subscriber what's seals and springs are compatible with the 634?

Gamo piston seal, apparently.  I have seen several threads on GTA about springs and other parts, but did not save them.

If and when the time comes, I would just measure the "tired" spring and find one with the same OD, wire diameter and number of coils (or cut to length).  The new spring should be longer than the old spring.  Pyramyd sells a range of springs, as do many other airgun specialists.

Sir, the preferred way to chose a replacement spring is by Wire diameter, number of coils and spring guide diameter.

[xtred1]

I know you are not a fan of multi pumpers. But go read the sticky in the Daisy gate on the 880. It seems like a plastic toy. It is anything but a toy.  Then you can be shooting and saving money for a nice HW30.

[Jeff Marshall]

Thanks all. Stinger177, I edited my last post to add that those groups were at 10m, 11 yards.

Good info on the scopes deals, thank you. I see on UTG's site that they have scopes for air rifles:
(Never mind, I can't post links yet)

It looks like maybe those model #'s linked in the other thread may not be in UTG's Air Rifles scopes list? But it's a bit tough for me to tell.

This UTG scope, "UTG 3-9X32 1" BugBuster Scope, AO", is $60, which is even a nicer price. I just don't know if it's good, and good for spring guns.
(again, sorry, can't post a link).

Those bug buster scopes are short....you often run into mounting problems with short scopes. A regular size 3-9x32 scope is more versatile.