Making a Semi-Bullet out of a pellet ... ( calber changing a pellet )



Author Topic: Making a Semi-Bullet out of a pellet ... ( calber changing a pellet )  (Read 1220 times - 2 votes) 
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Offline Motorhead

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Been goofing around today in seeing if i can successfully Swag a .22 caliber pellet INTO a .20 caliber bullet ?
I did accomplish a simple way in doing so and it surprisingly worked pretty well too IMO  ::)

Starting with a stub of 3/4" 7075 grade aluminum drilled a .220" pilot hole @ .400" deep, then another 1/2" at .201" ( drills were corner edge broke so to make a very smooth hole ) Then O.D. cut to make an edge so it would drop into one of the holes on the bench block.  Took a punch and beveled the end to be the same angle as the skirt of the H&N barracuda 21.3 grain .22 cal pellet.  Placing a pellet into die / swag tool it sits on the skirt edge. Placing punch centered on pellet and tapping it threw via a few hammer strike on punch drive it thew the swag die exiting as a longer and smaller 21 grain .20 cal "Semi-Bullet"

* The last photo shows the skirt material is being forced along side the punch lengthening the skirt and will be grinding a slight taper on the punch to find that perfect taper where the skirt is a tad thicker and ends up a tad shorter.

Took the first 10 shooting them at 40 yards with a muzzle velocity of @ 870 fps threw a 20" choked LW barrel.   All landed inside 3/8" which was a shock !! .... loading however difficult being the barrel does not have sufficient free bore / leade and upon loaded you forcefully shove them into the rifling.  Got em loaded, but not ideal.

Have read people talking about this in the past, but never seen anyone actually do it ???


Scott


UPDATE;
Went back and ground a shallow taper on the punch. Now as the new pellet skirt is formed it does so with a tapering thickness and NOT pulling the trailing edge lead further back. Done with the reground punch OAL of the new .20 cal pellet / semi-bullet is @ .015" shorter that the first ones shown.  They fall off the punch now too once exiting swag die.

« Last Edit: November 02, 2018, 03:11:49 PM by Motorhead »
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Offline anti-squirrel

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Re: Making a Semi-Bullet out of a pellet ... 1st attempt
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2018, 08:47:51 PM »
Now that you've made it and we hear how it shoots, I'm curious when some intrepid manufacturer will make these shaped as yours looks.
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Offline Dairyboy

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Re: Making a Semi-Bullet out of a pellet ... 1st attempt
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2018, 08:54:26 PM »
Very cool!
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Offline Motorhead

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Re: Making a Semi-Bullet out of a pellet ... 1st attempt
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2018, 09:24:48 PM »
Macro is hard to get a good focus ...
but here the skirt after tapering the punch being non distorted and the original trailing edge minus the pulled lead.  second pic the tapered punch.

I also put some JSB 15.9's and some Crosman 14.3 domes threw the Swag die and shot them ... at 40 yards those too hanging inside 3/8" +/- proving the Die works ... who-da-thunk ???
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Offline K.O.

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Re: Making a Semi-Bullet out of a pellet ... 1st attempt
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2018, 10:35:04 PM »
Hmmm  almost  a full 2 tenths...wonder about  3 tenths... a new 25g .22 JSB..?  or another path to 30g + .22 pellets... Hmm...
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Offline ranchibi

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Re: Making a Semi-Bullet out of a pellet ... 1st attempt
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2018, 10:35:43 PM »
Pretty ingenious thinking and manufacturing there Scott! The finished pellet/bullet looks great too. Glad it groups as well! I think you’re on to something that pellet manufacturers should do...think out of the box!
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Offline regularguy11B

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Re: Making a Semi-Bullet out of a pellet ... 1st attempt
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2018, 10:38:17 PM »
Very clever!
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Offline bantam5s

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Re: Making a Semi-Bullet out of a pellet ... 1st attempt
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2018, 10:55:18 PM »
Pretty cool to be able to make a .20 out of a .22,  using inexpensive crosmans and such a setup could be a cheap way to feed a streak.
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Offline subscriber

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Re: Making a Semi-Bullet out of a pellet ... 1st attempt
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2018, 01:19:31 AM »
Removed thread contamination...
« Last Edit: November 02, 2018, 09:33:53 PM by subscriber »
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Offline Motorhead

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Re: Making a Semi-Bullet out of a pellet ... 1st attempt
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2018, 02:59:26 AM »
Don't know if those dies could be used to make pellets from wire (so you don't have to kill a 4 cent pellet to make another one).  If you want to try, there are many sources for lead wire, such as:

https://www.rotometals.com/lead-wire-25-lb-spool/
https://www.mcmaster.com/8879k2
https://www.amazon.com/Diameter-Pure-99-9-Lead-Wire/dp/B001QUXES8

I have a pair of pliers with an adjustable stop to cut wire to a preset length.  Then I weight the cut lengths and sort them into piles at the nearest 0.1 grain for pellet blanks...

The effort is more based on weight of available .20 pellets
As it stands JSB 13.6  is as heavy as you can get now days & there is rumor of a 15.89 coming soon,  beyond that the Eunjin or Sam Yang heavy stuff is NLA.
So taking 21 grains in a .22 and resizing for the .20 produces a pellet weight you simply can no longer get.

Post more in YOU CAN DO THAT with what you have rather than a manufacture a raw swaged pellet thread.
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Offline Motorhead

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Re: Making a Semi-Bullet out of a pellet ... 1st attempt
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2018, 03:10:29 AM »
Been play all night making progressively smaller final exit size dies stepping down the size finding once sized at @ .198" they load with a firm push ( much better than at .201" )
Will do some accuracy testing in the A.M and post up some target pics if worth a hoot ... or post accordingly   ;)
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Offline K.O.

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Re: Making a Semi-Bullet out of a pellet ... 1st attempt
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2018, 03:51:11 AM »
Macro is hard to get a good focus ...
but here the skirt after tapering the punch being non distorted and the original trailing edge minus the pulled lead.  second pic the tapered punch.

I also put some JSB 15.9's and some Crosman 14.3 domes threw the Swag die and shot them ... at 40 yards those too hanging inside 3/8" +/- proving the Die works ... who-da-thunk ???

 More consistent head size more consistent results.. ;D
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PC77 steel breech 18.7" barrel,  700 fps @ 15 & 755 @ 20 pumps with 7.4g Crosman points

1322 steel breech 14.5" barrel, 640-650 fps @ 22 pumps w/14.3g CPHP

1322 MLT steel breech 19" barrel, 682 fps @ 22 pumps w/14.3g CPHP,  13xx/66 hybrid

1322XLT 22" barrel, 700 fps  @ 11 pumps & 750 @ 16 w/14.3g CPHP,   13xx/2100 hybrid

MK-1322 steel breech 22" barrel, 750 fps @ 17 pumps & 805 @ 22 w/14.3g CPHP,   Mk-177/2240/13xx hybrid

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Offline K.O.

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Re: Making a Semi-Bullet out of a pellet ... 1st attempt
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2018, 04:26:13 AM »
My gut says as long as the skirt base is nice and even... it may even be a superior pellet shape aerodynamically... and may even be less prone to dynamic instability at longer range... I still think due to having a waist and hollow base they will like a more normal pellet be over spun but not as badly and due to the shape/length it will handle being over spun better...

My next order from NOE just might include some extra push rods to shape for pellet experiments... and I wanted some inserts to open up for doing  in between sizing with also for the cast rounds...  so instead of .218 or .219 also have .2185... I do have .249 .2495 and .250 and My Mrod does like .2495 and .250 with the .25 40g BBT....249 opens up as does .251... you just proved some skirts can be sized without negative effect...plus the can be sized back out some if necessary...

oh yep I will be watching this thread to see what result look like with different pellets...pics of the .201 crosman please.. ;)

Hey you might even be able to make the Gamo pellets work..! and maybe a 34g  .20 Beast..!  Do think it will work for the less pointed pellets but would be surprised if there is any help for the Daisy .22 pointed... some shapes just will not do well I think but some might be really good....

a .20 barracuda hunter extreme..!  the possibilities are really fun to think about...
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PC77 steel breech 18.7" barrel,  700 fps @ 15 & 755 @ 20 pumps with 7.4g Crosman points

1322 steel breech 14.5" barrel, 640-650 fps @ 22 pumps w/14.3g CPHP

1322 MLT steel breech 19" barrel, 682 fps @ 22 pumps w/14.3g CPHP,  13xx/66 hybrid

1322XLT 22" barrel, 700 fps  @ 11 pumps & 750 @ 16 w/14.3g CPHP,   13xx/2100 hybrid

MK-1322 steel breech 22" barrel, 750 fps @ 17 pumps & 805 @ 22 w/14.3g CPHP,   Mk-177/2240/13xx hybrid

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Offline subscriber

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Re: Making a Semi-Bullet out of a pellet ... 1st attempt
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2018, 05:24:12 AM »
Removed thread contamination...
« Last Edit: November 02, 2018, 09:34:10 PM by subscriber »
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Offline Gwelo

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Re: Making a Semi-Bullet out of a pellet ... 1st attempt
« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2018, 11:47:50 AM »
For what it's worth, both the 22.9 and 23.7 grain .20 cal Eun Jin (SamYang) pellets are available from Krale. They are currently priced at $6.55 per 150 count tin.

https://www.krale-schietsport.nl/en/ammunition/airgun-pellets.html?caliber_multi=377&manufacturer=127
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Offline Motorhead

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Re: Making a Semi-Bullet out of a pellet ... 1st attempt
« Reply #15 on: November 02, 2018, 12:11:35 PM »
For what it's worth, both the 22.9 and 23.7 grain .20 cal Eun Jin (SamYang) pellets are available from Krale. They are currently priced at $6.55 per 150 count tin.

https://www.krale-schietsport.nl/en/ammunition/airgun-pellets.html?caliber_multi=377&manufacturer=127
Postage cost likely to kill that idea .... Tho just guessing.
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Offline regularguy11B

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Re: Making a Semi-Bullet out of a pellet ... 1st attempt
« Reply #16 on: November 02, 2018, 12:45:48 PM »
For what it's worth, both the 22.9 and 23.7 grain .20 cal Eun Jin (SamYang) pellets are available from Krale. They are currently priced at $6.55 per 150 count tin.

https://www.krale-schietsport.nl/en/ammunition/airgun-pellets.html?caliber_multi=377&manufacturer=127
Postage cost likely to kill that idea .... Tho just guessing.

That and the cost of the pellets themselves.  If you can resize any .22 pellet, I'd just stick with that idea.  Can't beat the consistency of every pellet sized in the same die, that is the way to go.  If I had the tools I'd probably build some dies are re-size all my .177 for the best accuracy.

I think you are onto something, and I would bet you could make good money off a quality pellet sizer these days.  Nobody else is really doing it these days, at least not that I am aware of.
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Offline Motorhead

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Re: Making a Semi-Bullet out of a pellet ... 4th die and TARGETS shot
« Reply #17 on: November 02, 2018, 03:07:28 PM »
After making a 4th die / swager & ending at .198" bore size we ran a bunch of different .22 pellets threw and check loading difficulty.  MUCH BETTER with all needing a slight nudge to get seated in the barrel.

In pushing the pellets threw to resize, the H&N barracuda due to head shape sized down VERY uniformly.  The JSB 15.9 & 18.1 due to softer lead also sized down VERY uniformly.  The Crosman domes DID NOT size down uniformly and you could see that by visual inspection while rolling  :P

We went and shot them all at 40 yards off my field target "Bucket & Sticks" ... so some errors in being steady certainly contribute to group sizing ... But the point still gets made as to the Success & Failures of this Resizing caliber experiment  :o

1st picture what JSB 18.1's look like after resizing ... 2nd picture how they shot  ;D  Velocity 859
3rd picture the Crosman domes after sizing ( note the LACK of uniformity ) ... 4th picture how they shot  :P  Velocity 922
5th picture the H&N barracuda ( Sized pic is on the first post ) ... How they now shot when sized down .003" from original test where they shot great ... Now not so much  :-\  Velocity 888
6th picture the JSB 15.9 ( No sized picture but similar to 18.1's ) ... How they shot  ;D ( shanked the one shot & knew it )  Velocity 877


Well my conclusion is if wanting some 16 or *18 grain pellets in .20 caliber ... THIS WORKS and quite well too

Thanks for following along.
Scott
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Offline K.O.

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Re: Making a Semi-Bullet out of a pellet ... ( calber changing a pellet )
« Reply #18 on: November 02, 2018, 03:54:19 PM »
Thanks Scott...

I do think over time I will be messing with this it makes for a whole bunch of possibilities...

with just the square end  of my NOE .22 push rod I sent the nose of a  Benji 27.8 grain thru  a .249" die insert and then thru a .224 insert and then pushed it back out... just to se how the Nose turned out... if I had a .243 set they go from 248 down to .235 so stepping down might be helpful rather than just going from .249 to .224... may give more consistent results... also a pushrod custom for each different pellet to fit in the skirt just right may help... but yep will be experimenting with the NOE inserts and Lee press in the future...

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=564_104_411&products_id=3009

There are so many possibilities  Ceds .172 comes to mind from .177 and maybe some of the .20 even...
Bobs 7mm from .30 

Me I have a bunch of .22 air barrels and a small host of .22 lr, .22 WMR, .22 hornet Barrels... know where a 5.6x52r(.22(7) Savage High power) barrel can be had... that's close enough I could say I have a .23 cal.. ;)

the possibilities  for some fun experimentation are almost endless... and some may turnout very useful... 40g enjin .25 to .22 or just my cast 34g .25 to .22

But yep I do think with some work there are a lot of pellets of various caliber  that may be able to be used this way...

pic below just to show what the head looks like Benj .25 domed down to .224...was not worried about the skirt just a quick and dirty check of .25 to .22



  • The Great Northwest, United States, Washington
PC77 steel breech 18.7" barrel,  700 fps @ 15 & 755 @ 20 pumps with 7.4g Crosman points

1322 steel breech 14.5" barrel, 640-650 fps @ 22 pumps w/14.3g CPHP

1322 MLT steel breech 19" barrel, 682 fps @ 22 pumps w/14.3g CPHP,  13xx/66 hybrid

1322XLT 22" barrel, 700 fps  @ 11 pumps & 750 @ 16 w/14.3g CPHP,   13xx/2100 hybrid

MK-1322 steel breech 22" barrel, 750 fps @ 17 pumps & 805 @ 22 w/14.3g CPHP,   Mk-177/2240/13xx hybrid

U.S. Shooting Team 953  reduced valve, 525 fps w/ 7.4g points

Offline K.O.

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Re: Making a Semi-Bullet out of a pellet ... ( calber changing a pellet )
« Reply #19 on: November 02, 2018, 03:55:16 PM »
Meplat is from pushing it back out...
  • The Great Northwest, United States, Washington
PC77 steel breech 18.7" barrel,  700 fps @ 15 & 755 @ 20 pumps with 7.4g Crosman points

1322 steel breech 14.5" barrel, 640-650 fps @ 22 pumps w/14.3g CPHP

1322 MLT steel breech 19" barrel, 682 fps @ 22 pumps w/14.3g CPHP,  13xx/66 hybrid

1322XLT 22" barrel, 700 fps  @ 11 pumps & 750 @ 16 w/14.3g CPHP,   13xx/2100 hybrid

MK-1322 steel breech 22" barrel, 750 fps @ 17 pumps & 805 @ 22 w/14.3g CPHP,   Mk-177/2240/13xx hybrid

U.S. Shooting Team 953  reduced valve, 525 fps w/ 7.4g points

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