Any US importers carrying this gun?

[Madd Hatter]

Thanks
That just saved lots of making a spreadsheet time

Yep! I had been using one that converted mps to fps and figured high vel and low vel along with fpe. This one is much better as it gives you a lot of info to use when tuning

[Madd Hatter]

Was just trying to get my Liberty quited down. No joy!!! That thing is LOUD!!!!. My have to try the old hair curler/felt trick to see what it will do.

[Wayne52]

I never thought either one (Liberty or the Freedom) were all that loud myself.  I'm not really a back yard shooter though, simply because I live in suburbia and don't think it's a good idea to draw attention, especially considering all the hype over guns these days, people look at them in general as being evil I think It's the person behind the trigger that's the evil one.  My Airmax Dominator is quiet however it does have a good LDC on it, I personally think that both the Liberty and the Freedom are plenty long and I really don't need any more length.

[FuzzyGrub]

I feel the Liberty is “hunting” quiet, but not “backyard” quiet.  I live in a rural area which is PB friendly, but still prefer that people don’t know I’m shooting.  I made my first Liberty “backyard” quiet by using Mrod baffles and shroud section and by shifting the shroud forward 1.75”.

I ordered some eBay baffles for my planned 25 cal conversion that should arrive today.  I’ll be posting a short thread on them, latter this week.

[Antwuan Maxx]

I'm regularly reading comments on different forums regarding leaking issues.  It seems like ATI receives a high number of returns, presumably for this very reason.

It appears ATI never repairs these guns, since they don't have the parts necessary to do so.  Instead they send out replacement rifles, never addressing the issue.   

My cousin's Liberty developed a slow leak before it even saw a full tin of pellets.   That slow leak has worsened, and the rifle will be shipped back to ATI this week.

I purchased my very own Liberty less than 2 months ago.  So far, so good...no leaks...yet. But I just can't shake the feeling that it's only a matter of time before mine leaks too. 

I realize that most, if not all, PCP guns will eventually leak and require some kind of maintenance. However, these guns seem more prone to leaking than others.

It's frustrating because this a great gun when it's functioning properly.  But how can you put trust in it when replacement parts are virtually nonexistent and a leaking issue seems to be inevitable?

[FuzzyGrub]

I believe the primary cause of 90+% of the leaks, is the poppets.  The material is too soft.   Apparently, this is not the only mfg that has had this issue.  Even if Nova Vista or ATI had oem poppets available, I'd recommend getting one made from Delrin or PEEK.   Will is working on some Delrin inserts and plans to send some out to GTA members.  Duy makes a performance poppet, as well.   I posted a thread on a DIY method, but its not for everyone.  There have been other leaks, but no consolidated data on it being more than a damaged o-ring. 




 

[Madd Hatter]

The problem in most cases is the poppet valve leaking due to a bad design. Will is working on making a replacement poppet out of delrin to replace the soft material that is used in the poppet stock. Once he gets it to final design I'm sure we'll have that problem under control. Most other problems are usually a Oring failure or it wasn't assembled right from the factory. Mine had a leaky poppet when I bought mine along with a loose airtube. I cut the metal can of the poppet back about .010 or so with a dremel and the stem chucked into a drill. It just recently started to leak but I just installed a DC valve with a peek poppet so I doubt it will ever leak again from the poppet.You also have to remember, a lot of us have increased the working pressure of the rifle along with shimming the HS which is putting a lot more stress on the poppet which it was never designed for.

Beat me to it fuzy!

[SILENT SQUIRREL]

I believe the primary cause of 90+% of the leaks, is the poppets.  The material is too soft.   Apparently, this is not the only mfg that has had this issue.  Even if Nova Vista or ATI had oem poppets available, I'd recommend getting one made from Delrin or PEEK.   Will is working on some Delrin inserts and plans to send some out to GTA members.  Duy makes a performance poppet, as well.   I posted a thread on a DIY method, but its not for everyone.  There have been other leaks, but no consolidated data on it being more than a damaged o-ring. 

 

It's my understanding that the best test for a leaking poppet is the balloon test.
That's a balloon secured to the barrel. Correct?
Is a balloon test also valid over the gauge & fill port?

When searching out the source of leaks, where are the other  places to look; and what are the methods (such as soapy water) for finding them?

Thanks
Ed

[FuzzyGrub]

I believe the primary cause of 90+% of the leaks, is the poppets.  The material is too soft.   Apparently, this is not the only mfg that has had this issue.  Even if Nova Vista or ATI had oem poppets available, I'd recommend getting one made from Delrin or PEEK.   Will is working on some Delrin inserts and plans to send some out to GTA members.  Duy makes a performance poppet, as well.   I posted a thread on a DIY method, but its not for everyone.  There have been other leaks, but no consolidated data on it being more than a damaged o-ring. 

 

It's my understanding that the best test for a leaking poppet is the balloon test.
That's a balloon secured to the barrel. Correct? 

Yes, shroud removed and balloon around barrel and I used a heavy rubber band with multiple wraps.


Is a balloon test also valid over the gauge & fill port?

Gauge - No.  Fill port if it is a foster type.  Maybe attached to the probe end.



When searching out the source of leaks, where are the other  places to look; and what are the methods (such as soapy water) for finding them?

Any place that has a seal.  I've used soapy water and the CRC aerosol.  Even with this, slow leaks can be hard to find.   I tried to find my plastic Liberty leak yesterday, but was not successful.


Thanks
Ed

My comments above:

[darkcharisma]

you guys beat me to it.

I understand some people are apprehensive about working on their airguns. And constantly asking questions about replacement parts because they think it's an easy fix. Some turn away from the gun because there is no replacement parts support.

Yes having abundant availability of replacement parts is a PLUS, but it's not really a permanent fix if the problem keeps coming back or if you think it's going to come back.

For example, with the soft sealing material, the right solution is to make a poppet out of delrin or peek. The other solution is to modify and fix it yourself. it's not too hard if you take the poppet CAN that holds the sealing material, and grind or file it down a little bit. Or better, buy the delrin rod in the right diameter, drill a through hole and grind down the Outside diameter then replace the soft material with it. IF you dont have a Lathe, make a drill lathe, it's not hard to turn delrin down, I can turn it down with my teeth If I can hold my chin without chatter, and if there weren't any better tools. 

I have never thought about buying replacement parts from ATI or the manufacturer.

[Madd Hatter]

The poppet is very easy to replace. Pull the action from the stock ( easier on the wood stock than the syn stock) degas, remove the barrel, unscrew air tube/reg from receiver and thar she is. Use some needle nose pliers or even some tweezers to put it out as the O ring that seals the stem will hold it in.

[wll2506]

I'm regularly reading comments on different forums regarding leaking issues.  It seems like ATI receives a high number of returns, presumably for this very reason.

It appears ATI never repairs these guns, since they don't have the parts necessary to do so.  Instead they send out replacement rifles, never addressing the issue.   

My cousin's Liberty developed a slow leak before it even saw a full tin of pellets.   That slow leak has worsened, and the rifle will be shipped back to ATI this week.

I purchased my very own Liberty less than 2 months ago.  So far, so good...no leaks...yet. But I just can't shake the feeling that it's only a matter of time before mine leaks too. 

I realize that most, if not all, PCP guns will eventually leak and require some kind of maintenance. However, these guns seem more prone to leaking than others.

It's frustrating because this a great gun when it's functioning properly.  But how can you put trust in it when replacement parts are virtually nonexistent and a leaking issue seems to be inevitable?

Yes, that poppet material is to soft and the length is to short as the outside of the cup stops it from sealing. I made a few Delrin poppet inserts and gave some out already. I replaced the standard insert in two of my guns, one is working the other I got to fix.

The poppet thing is pretty easy but everything everything must fit right.  The spring on the end must be ground even also, I think this is a issue .. The manufacturer did a bad ob on this.

wll

[FuzzyGrub]

I recently had the fill assy apart and the gauge is M8 with a o-ring sealing on the back.  Small gauges are notorious for leaks, so ordered these to have on hand:  

I am also looking into installing a gauge in the plenum plug.  That would take a M10 gauge, given the inside pocket is 9mm.  I already have the gauges, but Duy recommended using a reamer before hand threading with a M10 X 1.0 tap.  I will post a thread once I receive the reamer and perform.

[Hawkeye51]

Edward

Balloon test will work to detect leaky poppet, but this is quicker. Expose barrel, get liquid dish soap ( dawn etc.) put a drop between your 1st finger & thumb. Make a thin film and touch your finger to the end of barrel. Even if your leak is super small,
You will be able to see the soap film start to bulge. (5 min. will show any leak)

Be sure to wipe ALL of the soap cilm off & apply light coat of silicine oil to protect from rust.

[Madd Hatter]

I recently had the fill assy apart and the gauge is M8 with a o-ring sealing on the back.  Small gauges are notorious for leaks, so ordered these to have on hand:  

I am also looking into installing a gauge in the plenum plug.  That would take a M10 gauge, given the inside pocket is 9mm.  I already have the gauges, but Duy recommended using a reamer before hand threading with a M10 X 1.0 tap.  I will post a thread once I receive the reamer and perform.

Watching!! I want a gage on the plenum so much. Right now it's just a guessing game.

[darkcharisma]

i didnt look into the m10x1 gauge because i had a bunch of 1/8npt and m8x1 gauges. but it would seem m10x1 gauge will be perfect.

 i recommend reaming from the threaded end to the outside of the plenum's plug. going from inside to outside since the hole is already some .351. that way you won't misalign the hole drilling a 8mm hole from outside in.

[FuzzyGrub]

Reaming out to the 9mm for the M10 gauge will remove the complete screwdriver slot in the plug.  That should allow the o-ring to seal.  A 2mm X 10mm o-ring should work. 

[darkcharisma]

if there is not an oring groove cut into the plug, i wonder if that oring will prevent air seeping out? 70 duro stretches out a bit under pressure. i would think a delron oring would work better. since the freedom's breech gauge used a delron as an oring. worst comes you can use thread tape or jbweld.

[FuzzyGrub]

The oem M8 gauge uses a 2mm X 8mm 90D NBR o-ring, so think I'll be OK.  The bottom plug has room for more than needed threads, so also thought about epoxy a plug with small center hole, such that I could compress an o-ring or Delrin washer between it and the gauge.  Back up plan. 

[Madd Hatter]

How deep is the o ring groove that seals the plenum plug