Diana 350 arrived! And trouble...

[HectorMedina]

The reason I like the rifles with sledges to manage recoil better is that I don't have to spend weeks learning the idiosyncrasies of the free-recoiling rifles.  All the reading I have done suggests that the magnum springers are worse than the lower power ones. 

I had a break-barrel that I had to relearn to shoot every time I took it out.  It was a POS that I bought cheap and had no success with.  chinese Walther Force 1000?  I think.

A couple friends who bought into the Gamo high velocity game gave up in disgust even after hours of coaching. 

I don't have a 22 but have one of Hector's limited run 20 caliber 54s.  Once I got it broken in, I have had 100% hits on chipmunks (all head shots) at 30-35yds.  Accuracy nearly as good as my FWB300 at 30yds. 

I posted that a bit ago, I think on this site.

That's mighty good shooting, Dave!

Chipmunks are small and elusive quarry because they never stop moving! But, I see you have their behaviour "nailed down".

Thanks for your kind words and hope to see you again, next year!

[AG72]

Hector, the Delta Optical Titanium is a very good scope, the one i have is a 4-16*42 mildot model, i think i payed around 350$ for it, very clear glas, lightweight also, about the lubricant for the zr mount, do you think feinwerkbaus gleitfedt would be ok, it´s a small tube with lubricant for their air rifles and only need some small drops and are supposed to last forewer, i have a tube so therefore i am asking

[mpbby]

When using it on a D 350.., be aware about what's written in the scope's warranty policy.

On the first video, about 3':30", he says that it is NOT airgun rated.

https://www.optics-trade.eu/int/riflescopes/delta-optical-titanium-4-16x42-ao.html

[dtdtdtdt]

mpbby:

The ZR recoil absorbing mount reduces the felt recoil to the scope to less than 5% of actual. It is advertised to allow use of conventional scopes without damage. 

Hector Medina has a recent blog on his site showing some recoil measurements to support the claim by Diana.  Scroll down until you see an air rifle with a weird apparatus in the scope rings.  Then read the section about the the tests of the ZR compared to the standard mounts.

https://www.ctcustomairguns.com/hectors-airgun-blog

On the other hand, I haven't heard if Diana will replace scopes damaged while using their ZR mounts.

Hector - any comment on that?

If the mounts work as advertised, AG72 should be OK.

Dave

[AG72]

When using it on a D 350.., be aware about what's written in the scope's warranty policy.

On the first video, about 3':30", he says that it is NOT airgun rated.

https://www.optics-trade.eu/int/riflescopes/delta-optical-titanium-4-16x42-ao.html

Cross my fingers and hope it will hold up! If not then an expensive lesson learned...

[mpbby]

Thank you for telling the recent info at Hector’s blog.   Nevertheless, and as we say in Brazil.., maybe “too much sand to my little truck”.

The project of the ZR is based on a fantastic idea, that Hector explained to me a couple of years ago, but that seems to me “too good to be true”.  In practice, and in my words.., we should have a synchronized timing, repeatable, within each and all shot cycles, in order to have the scope without a rigid point of support when the huge forces happen.  Hector is committed to assure the dream come true.  Wisely, he continues to pay attention about the scope’s endurance by itself.

Simplifying the scenario by here.., the reality for me is that I have the ZR 1st Gen, with no tuning.  So, I also cross my fingers to, at least, have increased the lifespan (holding zero) of each scope.  I know that it’s just a matter of “time” (number of rounds).   Btw, in Brazil, I don’t have any warranty covering the imported scopes.. 

So, for the 350, yes, I most probably depend on the scopes’ endurance, and I follow Hector’s advices when choosing them.

[Artie]

On the subject of the ZR mount and perhaps I missed it somewhere but what is the difference between 2nd and third generation ZR mount? I know the difference between 1st and 2nd gen is primarily the rail diameter.. I was thinking maybe the 3rd gen difference is the mount accepts both one inch and 30mm scopes?

[Yogi]

On the subject of the ZR mount and perhaps I missed it somewhere but what is the difference between 2nd and third generation ZR mount? I know the difference between 1st and 2nd gen is primarily the rail diameter.. I was thinking maybe the 3rd gen difference is the mount accepts both one inch and 30mm scopes?

They always came in both 1 inch and 30mm.

-Y

[Artie]

Correct Yogi however I thought the original one's were either 1" or 30mm. I know for a fact my 30mm ZR mount from PA, ordered 1-2 two years ago did not come with the 1" inserts. I ordered 30mm because the ZR's  were almost always on backorder at PA back then and it was all I could get. I also recall at the time, thinking 30mm was probably a better option anyway because I could add 1" inserts if needed. That mount had the gen 2 thicker rails btw..

[dtdtdtdt]

The current version on Pyramyd has inserts to go from 30mm to 1" so it may be Gen 3.   

I have a Hector modified version in 1" that started as a 1" so it seems to be Gen 2??

I have two coming from Hector.  One with the 1" inserts trued by his methods the other with the 30mm trued for different scopes and rifles with his Teflon buttons to minimize slop. 

First one is working great thus far on my 20cal RWS 54.

[HectorMedina]

Wow!
Lots of comments! That's good.

@ Jürgen.- if I understand correctly, gleitfett would be "cup grease", which would be a generic term that says every little. You would need to ask FWB itself if they recommend using that grease in a steel to aluminum high speed interface. If you search my blog, I have a slow motion movies that is then split into frame by frame, demonstrating that the mount moves about 10 mm's in something like 2 ms. This ends up being about 18 km/hr. Not a small speed by any linear bearing standard.
I know that Liquid Bearings has worked in all aluminum to steel situations I have found, so I can recommend that, other lubricants, you would normally to ask the manufacturer of the lubricant.

@ Dave.- there are so many variables involved, that it would be somewhat suicidal to offer such a warranty. And, if offered, how would you weed out the true from the spurious? Better offer all the information possible, even if it is too much for some.

@ Artie.- Essentially, the difference is the factory that made them. The original factory tried to skimp on some specs, rails were undersized, tolerances oversized and materials less than what had been hoped for.
Second factory improved much the tolerances and the materials. But still not good enough.
Third factory came up with a much smarter system that is more repeatable. Better materials and finishes and increased quality for the same cost. ¿How? By using adapters to allow the user to select 1" or 30 mm's, and dropping the Weaver rail.
The droop compensation is now in the bases, not on the rails.
Along this "route", it's the shooters who benefit.



Both Gen2 & Gen3 can be well Accurized for your extreme performance. Reality is that only one in every 30 or 40 airgunners has the patience and dedication to see a real difference between OEM and fully worked over mounts. Specially because you need a truly accurate rifle to test them.

Now, talking in general, our latest experiments show that scopes get destroyed by 2 different factors. On one hand is the obvious reverse shock of piston Airguns, but what MOSTLY kills scopes are vibrations originating in the powerplant and possibly making the internals resonate to a destructive natural frequency.
This resonance is what loosens screws and retaining rings and once space is created for something to accelerate (lenses, reticle, turrets etc) , the shock finishes the job.

Please look for my 3 entries about the ZRMounts. Each one explains different things that need to be understood.

Keep well and shoot straight!




HM

[dtdtdtdt]

Boy did this string of notes get hijacked!!   We start with a discussion of a tight chamber making it difficult to load a new 350 and get to discussion of the ZR mount.  A convoluted thought process going on here!  I went back through the series and found that I !!!! mentioned the ZR base first so it's my fault!!!! Sorry about that. 

Hector:  I was just teasing a bit.  I understand the problem of applying warranties to human efforts. There was a series of discussions on another website started by a guy who bought an air rifle in the 1990s.  Shot it for years, modified, tinkered, damaged, and pretty much butchered the rifle.  About 4 years ago he started demanding that the original seller refund his money and his costs for the modifications and IMPROVEMENTS he made to the rifle.  The vendor rationally said no.  The guy then proceeded to try to trash the vendor's reputation and business on most of the sites, including this one.  I guess he finally gave up - or died??

It will take time and experience for a lot of shooters to develop the confidence to say that the ZR type base will reduce,not eliminate, damage to scopes.  Improvements are still needed in both camps. 

Cheers!!

[AG72]

Dave you do not have to apologise! This is what forums should be about, discussion and helping, and since i have a ZR mount that i thought was broken, it´s my "fault" as well! I am very glad and thankful you all helping me out!

[HectorMedina]

Yes, it's your fault and you should feel guilty!

LOL!

Just kidding.

I'm a little under the weather now, and have to go to Nationals tomorrow, so I'm a bit overworked, my apologies too.

If we want to go back to the Original post intention, perhaps I should say that the best way to alleviate the Difficulty in chambering pellets in DIANA, slanted breech actions is by turning a small wooden or plastic piloted-cone to the appropriate shape and size, and then attach it to a "piano wire" rod that you can pull from the muzzle.
 
You can then cover the cone with sanding paper in progressive grits and give your gun a true in-line chamber.

Care should be taken with the muzzle end of the barrel with a crown saver type tool, but results usually grant this level of attention.

BTW, this method will work with either slanted or right angle breeches/breechfaces.

HTH






HM

[dtdtdtdt]

Hector:

Good luck and good shooting!

How did the Pyramyd shoot come out. 

I had to leave to do other things otherwise, I would have hung around for a while.

The H&N guy gave me a sample of their new FT pellet (all five lots.)  When I get my new scope set up on my .177 with the ZR, I will give them a wringing out to see how they do and will report on GTA someday!

[Yogi]

Dave,

How many new pellet shapes does H&N have?
I know of only one.  The one that Hector reported about on his blog.

-Y

[dtdtdtdt]

There is only one shape.   The sampler kit included 5 different production LOTS. 

I assume the shape is one that Hector reported on.  I didn't really look at it too close.  It looked like a round head at quick glance. 

Later today, I'll see if I can get a photo of the pellet and will attach it here.

Dave

[HectorMedina]

There are two "new" pellet shapes by H&N
The one that's about a year old is the Baracuda Hunter Extreme which got written about in the blog, the other is the Baracuda FT which is mentioned in the blog, but couldn't be explored in depth.
What Dave T got was a sampler pack of Baracuda FT. Domed, 9.75 GRS. 4.50 (or 4.51) head diameter. Not ideal for hunting.

I'll finish a report on Pyramyd Air Cup next week.

Keep well and shoot straight!


HM

[dtdtdtdt]

Hector is correct.  It is the FT style that I got samples of.  As noted, I'll do some tests too when I get a chance.

Dave

[AG72]

Finaly got some shooting trough the chrony, but numbers was a bit low, around 258 m/s, 846 ft/s with JSB 10.34 and around 290 m/s 950 ft /s with JSB 8.44, but she is accurate so not disapointed with the gun at all