Does a choked barrel really improve accuracy ????

[shorty]

Does a choked barrel really improve accuracy ?

I don't know.......

All grouping at 25 yards on paper.
First gun was the 22 synrod with terrible barrel. Re-choked it and it shoots better than me with 14.66's and 21.14's ONLY. Laser straight.
Second was a FD PCP .177 cal (no Choke and did nothing besides put a target crown on it) and shoots every .177 cal pellet the same ( GREAT ).
Third was the 25 cal synrod with GM barrel ( did not do anything to it ). Shoots pretty darn good but not as great as the 22 and the FDPCP.
Forth gun Gauntlet 22 cal. Out of the box, great. Chopped 5" over barrel and re-crown, better than great with every 22 cal pellet in house.

So, when I say great I mean cover with a dime or nickle. When I say Ok, i's more like a quarter (min-10 shots). I really like the one holers but I can't hold it that steady or have a great scope on each of the guns.

What have you all experienced? Is a choke really worth it? From what I am seeing, I can shoot a larger variety of pellets without a choke more accurately than a chocked barrel.

[oneshot61]

Michael just cut the choke off of his rainstorm II .25 and got better groups with pellets and bullets. I think it depends on how tight your barrel is (imho) if your going to get good accuracy with pellets after you cut your choke off. The choke plays advocate with pellets being different sizes. But.. makes bullet sizing more  critical.

[shorty]

Choking is starting to sound like a gimmick too me?!.

[oldpro]

 It really depends on the platform and power level also. Ive had guns with no choke shoot great until i cranked them up then they shot all over the place and then choked them and they shot great on the other hand Ive had guns with chokes shoot great and just as well with no choke the only difference was the unchoked barrels had a tight bore.

[oldpro]

Choking is starting to sound like a gimmick too me?!.

Its not its helps resize the pellets as they exit so more uniform shots threw the whole Tin of pellets. Cut the choke off the green moutain and tell me what you think I bet you change your mind.

[KnifeMaker]

the Rainstorm shot well, VERY well with JSB's but not so well with bullets. Once I found that the bbl. itself was very tight, ( bbl. .250/choke .251) I gathered up a bucket load of courage and cut and recrowned it.


The results were shocking. It went from a one holer at 36 yards with MK-II's to literally pellet size hole. All thru the pellet sized hole!


Bullets were very inconsistent with the choke. Regardless of sizing. Once the choke was removed, the groups were good. Not stellar, but good, with far less fillers.


I hand lapped the bbl. and the groups got better. But still not what they could be.


Late yesterday evening, I fire lapped the bbl. starting with 220 grit, followed by 360 grit, and finally 600 grit.
this is done by rubbing the oil mix of grit on a precision steel plate, and using a second steel plate, rolling the bullet between the two plates, which pressed the grit into the bearing surfaces of the bullet.


Proper way to use it is 10 shots with 220, 10-20 of 360, and finally 20+ of the 600 grit. I was very low on the grit, so 10 or 220, 15 of 360 and 15 of 600 grit were used.


The .25 Storm with bullets was a fine 36 yard performer, and fair 50 yard performer, but not so good at 80 yards.


Today, the test shows it is now a Squirrel Killer at 80 yards. Success at last!


Used a 1" target dot on my range, and the first NOE modded Ranch Dog, 50 grain bullet went exactly thru the tiny bulls eye of the target. Followed by two more tightly touching. Final two strung to the right. My bad, Seems I am too anxious to wait for the gust of wind to settle. GRRRR!


So here is something to think about. Choke at 80 yards, 8-9 inch groups. No choke ,2-3" groups. Hand lapped, 2 to 1/2" groups. Fire Lapped, under an inch at the same distance, same bullets.


Pictured is six shots of the 50 grainers, at apx 740 fps. ( Just received new hammer springs from Oneshot and the velocity jumped to 880 fps at lowest setting of adjustment  from hammer spring screw). Have not tested accuracy yet with higher velocity. The bbl. is one in 14 twist, so should get even better with speed. FPPE jumped from 63-64 fpe to 86 fpe with nothing more than s simple spring change, Thanks to Oneshot.


Knife
Six Shots from magazine, first two thru the tiny bullseye at 80 yards. 6-8 SW Wind from left to right, with gust to 10-11 mph.   

[oldpro]

 Knife great results my friend!!! I’d advise those reading to not go chopping off your chokes it does work with certain barrels and that’s just how it is but not all. The most accurate barrel I’ve ever tested and this can be backed up by many many people on this forum is the Marmot Malitia HF 22 barrel and it has the tightest choke I’ve ever seen. Now I own a LW polygon barrel with no choke and it’s a laser so yes no chokes can work but most competition barrels are choked in FT and Bench rest  tournaments so those guys are the top of the top as far as accuracy goes. JMHO

[KnifeMaker]

Travis, I keep seeing Poly bbl's talked about, but not as much as when they first hit the market. Seems like there would be advantages to them.


What is your take on them, and any applications for slug shooting?


Thanks Sir!


Knife/Mike

[triggertreat]

I can vouch for the MMHF .22 barrel.  What a laser with soft lead.  Not so much with hard lead for very long between cleanings.  Can't use a .22 cleaning rod due to the tight choke.

[TF89]

I have very limited experience as I have only hand lapped two rifle barrels besides reading lots of various opinions on the subject.

If a barrel has rough and/or tight and loose areas in the bore having a choke isn't going to help much.  Mike It sounds like to me you cleaned up the barrel by hand lapping and then gave the bore a real good polish by fire lapping.  Fire lapping by it nature tends to add a choke.   

It seems that a consistent bore is more important than a choked one.  Of course all of this coming from an armchair quarter back.

[nced]

Does a choked barrel really improve accuracy ?

I don't know.......

All grouping at 25 yards on paper.
First gun was the 22 synrod with terrible barrel. Re-choked it and it shoots better than me with 14.66's and 21.14's ONLY. Laser straight.
Second was a FD PCP .177 cal (no Choke and did nothing besides put a target crown on it) and shoots every .177 cal pellet the same ( GREAT ).
Third was the 25 cal synrod with GM barrel ( did not do anything to it ). Shoots pretty darn good but not as great as the 22 and the FDPCP.
Forth gun Gauntlet 22 cal. Out of the box, great. Chopped 5" over barrel and re-crown, better than great with every 22 cal pellet in house.

So, when I say great I mean cover with a dime or nickle. When I say Ok, i's more like a quarter (min-10 shots). I really like the one holers but I can't hold it that steady or have a great scope on each of the guns.

What have you all experienced? Is a choke really worth it? From what I am seeing, I can shoot a larger variety of pellets without a choke more accurately than a chocked barrel.

Hummmm.........whenever I chopped a HW barrel I re-choked it and the accuracy has been good every time. I first made a "choke clamp" that got placed on the muzzle and using a heavy vise I "squished" the muzzle in steps till the choke was the tightest part of the bore. Here is the "chop & choke" I did to a .177 Beeman R1 barrel to make it fit my R9 better after i sold the .20 barrel that came with the R9........


On another "chop & choke job" I used a modified heavy pipe cutter to "roll in the choke". The modification was to replace the cutting wheel with a lathe turned roller. This worked however the muzzle finish was marred and the metal was upset like this so I used the "choke clamp" after that...........


Here is a target shot sitting on a bucket resting the gun on cross sticks using the chopped and choked R1 barrel on my Beeman R9 when I lived in WV. LOL, doesn't seem that the "chop & choke" hurt the accuracy any.............


Anywhoo, more directly to answer your question concerning accuracy , IMHO, it all depends on the gun/barrel to begin with. I do know that the HW barrels I've owned have all had a constriction in the bore where the barrel was pressed into the barrel pivot block, plus an occasional constriction along the bore itself. My theory is that the choke on HW muzzles is simply to stabilize the pellet just before release by guaranteeing that the smallest part of the bore is at the muzzle after the pellet was re-sized by the various constrictions in the bore. As long as the bore is perfectly uniform from leade to muzzle I really don't know is a choke would help with accuracy, however for the HW bores I'm familiar with it does seem that accuracy should be improved bith choking and a good crown. 

[Rallyshark]

Travis, I keep seeing Poly bbl's talked about, but not as much as when they first hit the market. Seems like there would be advantages to them.


What is your take on them, and any applications for slug shooting?


Thanks Sir!


Knife/Mike

I'm not speaking for Travis, of course, but I have a choked polygon in .22.  I'm still working out what it likes, and at what speeds.  I can say it seems to like speed.  It is same hole accurate with a few pellets, and will shoot at least 10-12 of the different pellets I've tried under a dime at 30 yards.  I tried some of the BBT 30 grain and 28 grain HP out of it, and it was only so so.  They were about a nickel at 30 yards, which isn't good enough in my book.  I tried them at 900-950fps.  I think they may do better if they were sized slightly different, or in an unchoked barrel for sure.  I can say the polygon is far more consistent in it's behavior than my last barrel, FWIW.

[Nomadic Pirate]

I'll take unchokerd barrels any day.

[shorty]

Gimmick was not the word i really meant. And I am not saying to cut off your choke or put a choke on. Just trying to figure out somethings and wanted to get a consensus on the matter.

I am currently at 50/50 and don't know why.

A few things are bothering me though. I have read alot about 22lr's having a choked barrel but, most people say here that running slugs in a choked airgun barrel doesn't group well. That's weird ain't it ? 22Lr barrels are choked and they only sling slugs.

I am still not getting it yet. Is it that a choked barrel increases a poorly made barrel ?

Could it possibly be that a long time ago someone decided to squeeze the end of their barrel choking it and got better grouping, then promoted it somehow as being the greatest thing for accuracy and now we just all assume you need a choke to have supreme accuracy?

I guess it can go the other way with slugs too.

I like everyone's opinions because I have a feeling there just might not be a technical paper on the matter.

[Bob Pratl]

Just my 2 cents after following this thread. I can see the value of a choke to compensate for a less precision barrel or inconsistent non-match pellets.
I think that is why Michael got great results, after removing his choke, because he did a super job in lapping his barrel, which is now a precision barrel, plus the fact that he is casting consistent pellets.
In my PB 6mm BR and PPC bench rest days small groups could only be achieved with precision match unchoked barrels, sorted bullets and consistent concentric reloads.

[elh0102]

In my experience, the accuracy obtained from a given rifle depends on how all the variables are managed to work together. You change one thing, you may need to change two more to get the results you want. I have had very good shooting barrels with and without chokes, but mostly with.

[moorepower]

The muzzle must be the same or slightly choked for best accuracy. IF it is looser accuracy will suffer. I would call it possibly a crutch to make sure it shoots well. Most barrels will have a tight spot of two that will constrict the pellet/bullet. If it constricts more than the muzzle accuracy will suffer. Their is a reason that the highest end barrels cost $4-500, in a powder burner.

[shorty]

All I am hearing is opinion and not hard faq.

Sloppy barrel design with choke improves but a well designed "built" barrel delivers.

I am starting think gimmick again and it P's me off. This is one of those situations that someone (bigger and "YOU LOOK UP TO" ) throws something out in the market and everyone thinks it's greatest thing from sliced bread.

Come on now... Where is the data that supports a choked barrel as being the best.

[oldpro]

 I dont think all these companys are putting chokes on guns as a gimmick they are doing so to increase the pellet to pellet consistency. I doubt Daystate, FX, Crosman, WAR, Theobin and Raw etc etc are putting chokes on guns for the *(&^ of it. Chokes work period but in some cases they are not needed. If I was going to bet my life and had two identical guns one choked and one unchoked setting on the bench and had to put 5 on a dime guess which one Id pick up.

[KnifeMaker]

Never had, nor have I seen a choked bbl in 22lr, or any other modern pb. There are bbl.s that are lapped by hand or fire lapped that are gradually tapered from breach to muzzle. But this is a totally different process than chokes. And quite extensive to manufacture or have done by hand lapping. Unless you know how to do it your self. It is hard arduous work. Trust me on that one. 


One poster wrote that fire lapping will give you a choke. Not true. If done to the extreme, you can end up with a tapered bore, or completely ruined.


Pellets, thru the years have had all sized in one cal. Different manufactures have used all kinds of specs. Still do to some extent. Especially in the .177 thru the years, and even more so in Europe. The only answer to have any kind of accuracy on average, with different brands, much less different lots is choking. Not much of a way around it.  Have a barrel that is not all that pellet fussy, especially in .177, bet dime to donuts it's choked.


Knife