rifle vs. bullpup

[kingrude1]

Maybe I am confused about the problem with holdover on a bullpup. But wouldn't shooting your gun at various distances tell you what you need to know? When I got my Bullboss I simply shot mine at varying distances from 5 yds to 50 yds, I then recorded this information in a document on my phone, holdover and magification used at each distance. Range your surroundings, quick  look at document to see magnification and holdover. Unless you don't have a mildot scope on it, why would this not be adequate?

[Mod90]

That is the one reason I don't like Pups for hunting,...fine for shooting at known distances but when you get shots with a wide variation with the scope hight you gotta always be on your toes and make sure you remember you hold overs and unders,
when hunting with variable distances I want a gun with the scope as close to the bore as possible.

That's why you just buy one of these and never worry about it again....

Nope, not gonna help and actually will make things worse,...we are trying to get the scope closer to the bore not higher 

That's my primary peeve with bullpups, & the main reason I never kept the few i tried. How hard can it be to design a bullpup with a rail thats not a half mile over the barrel? Is all that height REALLY necessary to mount an optic? Why?
The absolute worst thing about those high rails, if one need to keep the objective of the scope as close to the bore as possible them you're limited to using scopes with small objective lenses and low mounts. That limits the variety of optics one has to choose from as well as mounting systems.
If ever i get another bullpup, the first thing I'll be doing to it would be to remove the factory rail (most likely the barrel bands will have to go too) and have a new low rail mounted. There's quite a few nice long .25" rail extensions available these days to choose from.

[Mod90]

Maybe I am confused about the problem with holdover on a bullpup. But wouldn't shooting your gun at various distances tell you what you need to know? When I got my Bullboss I simply shot mine at varying distances from 5 yds to 50 yds, I then recorded this information in a document on my phone, holdover and magification used at each distance. Range your surroundings, quick  look at document to see magnification and holdover. Unless you don't have a mildot scope on it, why would this not be adequate?

In a hunting scenario sometimes the game won't be willing to wait for you to consult your phone to get your holdover.

[kingrude1]

Maybe I am confused about the problem with holdover on a bullpup. But wouldn't shooting your gun at various distances tell you what you need to know? When I got my Bullboss I simply shot mine at varying distances from 5 yds to 50 yds, I then recorded this information in a document on my phone, holdover and magification used at each distance. Range your surroundings, quick  look at document to see magnification and holdover. Unless you don't have a mildot scope on it, why would this not be adequate?

In a hunting scenario sometimes the game won't be willing to wait for you to consult your phone to get your holdover.

Unless you are running through the woods it's not hard to get your distances, know your holdover for those distance. Now if you have trouble with your memory this won't work for you.

[Wildcatter]

IMO Bull pups are much more hold sensitive then rifles, so you have to hone your shot a little bit.  It's much easier with such a short gun in your hand for you to pull the shot.  VERY easy.  I would suggest a Hatsan Flash Pup in .25 or .22 for what you're looking to do.  About 6 pounds unscoped.  I have the .177 and it's a dime size group at 30 yards.  I can take it to 40 without even thinking.  The higher calibers would probably be better to an even farther distance...

You really should try one, first.  I happen to luv em for brush work and tight quarters pest control. 

Anyway, I lost a shoot out with my FX Wildcat in .22 to a Brocock Bantam bottled gun in .22 recently, so I KNOW those are good guns and I think tick all the boxes you needed...

[Ribbonstone]

They are short.  Have a longer barrel than you'd expect becasue of how they were designed, but the main thing if that they're short for very little ballistic disavantage from being short.

Lot of folks love them...think they just love the style of them, as they really don't do anything that a rifle of equal quality/expense can do other than be manuviered around in tight spaces.  Doesn't bothere me, foulks do tend to really like one style or another...."black rifle", traditaional wood-n-steel sporter....thumbhole stocks...whatever. 


Which is why in militarty terms, they are popular.  Most of the "boots on the ground" fighting in the last 60-65 years has been of the close up and personal type (jungles/urban settings).  I'dcertainly prefer a short handy rifle for house-to-house type fighting (or that thick jungle of Vietnam). Do notice that the guys specifically tasked for long range shooting tend to be issued a different rifle.

BUT, in militry use, they are mostly sem'-auto/full auto, so they aren't cycling a rould from the shoulder by hand (just stuffing in a mag. evern 30-40 shots).

We "we ain't them", do notice that in the upper levesl of compition, the majority of the airguns tend to a "sameness". Now the guys that do get to that level are certainly not going to keep what doesn't work for them....such a small difference between win-place-shot, tose guys would tap on the barrel with a blood dipped chicken bone, in a graveyard,  during a full moon if they thought it would gain them a few points.

So I'm goingto have to belive certain styles have evolved for reasons.  Can generally tell a 10 meter rifle from a top field target rifle from a bench rest rifle from a silo. rifle (each pretty well made for a specific task) ...and there is very likely a good reason for the "sameness" of features.


Now in my case, I'd rather have a safe full of bullpup PCP's than a case of VD.

At least I could sell the bullpups.

[Nomadic Pirate]

Maybe I am confused about the problem with holdover on a bullpup. But wouldn't shooting your gun at various distances tell you what you need to know? When I got my Bullboss I simply shot mine at varying distances from 5 yds to 50 yds, I then recorded this information in a document on my phone, holdover and magification used at each distance. Range your surroundings, quick  look at document to see magnification and holdover. Unless you don't have a mildot scope on it, why would this not be adequate?

In a hunting scenario sometimes the game won't be willing to wait for you to consult your phone to get your holdover.

BINGO

[Nomadic Pirate]

Maybe I am confused about the problem with holdover on a bullpup. But wouldn't shooting your gun at various distances tell you what you need to know? When I got my Bullboss I simply shot mine at varying distances from 5 yds to 50 yds, I then recorded this information in a document on my phone, holdover and magification used at each distance. Range your surroundings, quick  look at document to see magnification and holdover. Unless you don't have a mildot scope on it, why would this not be adequate?

Correct,

as I mentioned not a problem if you are shooting at knowing distances with the info,

but if you hunting and your pup is zeroed at 25 yards and a wild boar comes out at 8 yards you don't really have the time to check your notes ...things can happen fast and you need to take that shot fast, even to just try remember your holdovers in a high adrenaline situation ain't easy so I rather carry a gun with the scope as low as possible.

[Mod90]

Maybe I am confused about the problem with holdover on a bullpup. But wouldn't shooting your gun at various distances tell you what you need to know? When I got my Bullboss I simply shot mine at varying distances from 5 yds to 50 yds, I then recorded this information in a document on my phone, holdover and magification used at each distance. Range your surroundings, quick  look at document to see magnification and holdover. Unless you don't have a mildot scope on it, why would this not be adequate?

In a hunting scenario sometimes the game won't be willing to wait for you to consult your phone to get your holdover.

Unless you are running through the woods it's not hard to get your distances, know your holdover for those distance. Now if you have trouble with your memory this won't work for you.

Yup, and a lot of people hunt that way. Pushing through the bush. In those scenarios you could encounter an animal 50 yards out, or 7 yards in front of you. And its for those close encounters where that extra height turns out to be a pain. I used to just turn the gun sideways.

[CaptVideo]

Thanks to all for your comments and plusses and minuses. I am going to do my best to find a bullpup to try, but from what everyone says I think I'm probably leaning towards a traditional rifle again. 

"I would go for an Air Arms S510 Carbine."
Nomadic, this is on my list

Gary

[SilentMatt]

That's my primary peeve with bullpups, & the main reason I never kept the few i tried. How hard can it be to design a bullpup with a rail thats not a half mile over the barrel? Is all that height REALLY necessary to mount an optic? Why?
The absolute worst thing about those high rails, if one need to keep the objective of the scope as close to the bore as possible them you're limited to using scopes with small objective lenses and low mounts. That limits the variety of optics one has to choose from as well as mounting systems.
If ever i get another bullpup, the first thing I'll be doing to it would be to remove the factory rail (most likely the barrel bands will have to go too) and have a new low rail mounted. There's quite a few nice long .25" rail extensions available these days to choose from.

Your cheek weld is on the receiver(where the scope mounts on a normal rifle), so if you lower the scope, you won't be able to see through it...


I don't think anybody here actually understands how the Optimizer works, oh well.

[Nomadic Pirate]

We understand how it works,...fact is that it still wont help on a fast paced hunting situation.

[hollowpoint1911]

I don't think anybody here actually understands how the Optimizer works, oh well.

That's probably because the Optimizer is a crossbow accessory. I just looked into it and it seems nifty. My 5 minute understanding of the product is that you need to range your target though. I don't know how this helps a situation where the distance is unknown (which is what I thought you were implying in your original reply to Nomadic Pirate). Now, if you have to range your target to make the proper adjustment to the Optimizer, why wouldn't sometime just stick that data in a ballistic calculator or look at a dope chart? I think the product works for archery because they use simplified sights/reticles, but I'm not sure how it benefits airgunners with the typical optics we use. Then there's the issue with creating a new range tape for the Optimizer because their included tapes are for bolts traveling 410 FPS or slower.

[Nomadic Pirate]

Having said all that,.....if I had the money to buy an Edgun RM5 in .25 I would do it right now

[SilentMatt]

We understand how it works,...fact is that it still wont help on a fast paced hunting situation.

Maybe someday you'll actually try one, until then, it's just another opinion... It probably isn't really needed for the 30' club anyway   

That's probably because the Optimizer is a crossbow accessory. I just looked into it and it seems nifty. My 5 minute understanding of the product is that you need to range your target though. I don't know how this helps a situation where the distance is unknown (which is what I thought you were implying in your original reply to Nomadic Pirate). Now, if you have to range your target to make the proper adjustment to the Optimizer, why wouldn't sometime just stick that data in a ballistic calculator or look at a dope chart? I think the product works for archery because they use simplified sights/reticles, but I'm not sure how it benefits airgunners with the typical optics we use. Then there's the issue with creating a new range tape for the Optimizer because their included tapes are for bolts traveling 410 FPS or slower.

They use scopes on crossbows...  How do you normally range your target? It comes with blank tapes to mark all your own ranges. It then takes one to two seconds to turn the wheel to the range you are shooting. It works by canting the the scope up or down, that makes it so you can keep your horizontal line on target for more accurate windage instead of being a few stadia lines down and connecting the dots.

Mine is set from 40 to 108 yards because that's what I normally shoot and it still has 3/4 of the tape left for longer shots. I'm not trying to sell anything, just trying to share an awesome product that has made shooting even funner, fixes the close range holdover and makes hunting more humane.


Sorry for sniping the thread, back to your regularly scheduled program.

[Nomadic Pirate]

Zero chance I spend  170 bucks on that kine gadget, not gonna help me when there's no time but react.

[SilentMatt]

If you make it to the states, you can try out mine. 

[kingrude1]

Maybe I am confused about the problem with holdover on a bullpup. But wouldn't shooting your gun at various distances tell you what you need to know? When I got my Bullboss I simply shot mine at varying distances from 5 yds to 50 yds, I then recorded this information in a document on my phone, holdover and magification used at each distance. Range your surroundings, quick  look at document to see magnification and holdover. Unless you don't have a mildot scope on it, why would this not be adequate?

Correct,

as I mentioned not a problem if you are shooting at knowing distances with the info,

but if you hunting and your pup is zeroed at 25 yards and a wild boar comes out at 8 yards you don't really have the time to check your notes ...things can happen fast and you need to take that shot fast, even to just try remember your holdovers in a high adrenaline situation ain't easy so I rather carry a gun with the scope as low as possible.

I have much of it committed to memory and use my notes to refresh before going out so if it a close shot like 8 yds I know I need to be 3 mils over and shooting at a boar there is some room for error. Anyways works great for me.

[Nomadic Pirate]

Maybe I am confused about the problem with holdover on a bullpup. But wouldn't shooting your gun at various distances tell you what you need to know? When I got my Bullboss I simply shot mine at varying distances from 5 yds to 50 yds, I then recorded this information in a document on my phone, holdover and magification used at each distance. Range your surroundings, quick  look at document to see magnification and holdover. Unless you don't have a mildot scope on it, why would this not be adequate?

Correct,

as I mentioned not a problem if you are shooting at knowing distances with the info,

but if you hunting and your pup is zeroed at 25 yards and a wild boar comes out at 8 yards you don't really have the time to check your notes ...things can happen fast and you need to take that shot fast, even to just try remember your holdovers in a high adrenaline situation ain't easy so I rather carry a gun with the scope as low as possible.

I have much of it committed to memory and use my notes to refresh before going out so if it a close shot like 8 yds I know I need to be 3 mils over and shooting at a boar there is some room for error. Anyways works great for me.

Let me go out on a limb and take a wild guess,....

You never been hunting Wild boar in thick jungle settings with a .25 PCP ?

Also, brain shooting a Wild Hog there's no room for error, on the contrary you better be very precise with your shot,


Friend of mine from the Big island got charged a month or so ago after he bothched the shot, he fent the boar away by hitting it with the barrel and shooting again at the same time, he hit it so hard his sumatra barrel is bent now

[HASHTAG]

Maybe I am confused about the problem with holdover on a bullpup. But wouldn't shooting your gun at various distances tell you what you need to know? When I got my Bullboss I simply shot mine at varying distances from 5 yds to 50 yds, I then recorded this information in a document on my phone, holdover and magification used at each distance. Range your surroundings, quick  look at document to see magnification and holdover. Unless you don't have a mildot scope on it, why would this not be adequate?

Correct,

as I mentioned not a problem if you are shooting at knowing distances with the info,

but if you hunting and your pup is zeroed at 25 yards and a wild boar comes out at 8 yards you don't really have the time to check your notes ...things can happen fast and you need to take that shot fast, even to just try remember your holdovers in a high adrenaline situation ain't easy so I rather carry a gun with the scope as low as possible.

I have much of it committed to memory and use my notes to refresh before going out so if it a close shot like 8 yds I know I need to be 3 mils over and shooting at a boar there is some room for error. Anyways works great for me.

Let me go out on a limb and take a wild guess,....

You never been hunting Wild boar in thick jungle settings with a .25 PCP ?

Also, brain shooting a Wild Hog there's no room for error, on the contrary you better be very precise with your shot,


Friend of mine from the Big island got charged a month or so ago after he bothched the shot, he fent the boar away by hitting it with the barrel and shooting again at the same time, he hit it so hard his sumatra barrel is bent now

he fent the boar away by hitting it with the barrel and shooting again at the same time, he hit it so hard his sumatra barrel is bent now
In the cartoons porky the pig never had issues with real guns.  Stupid air rifles. Didnt see that one comming did he.