Author Topic: More DAR bad luck (Read 20523 times))

Rat Sniper (AKA: PaulT58) · « **Reply #40 on:** July 27, 2018, 09:21:01 AM »

Quote from: Wayne52 on July 27, 2018, 01:08:26 AM

I need another magazine also, mine has a small crack in the clear plastic part, it was there from the beginning but is growing, still working though.

Now that you mention it, mine has had a small crack since I got it, but luckily, it has not grown. The magazine still functions fine, so I'll keep using it till it fails. I do what to get 2 spares though. At my current tune, I can shoot 3 magazine before I need to refill, so having 3 on hand should do the trick.

tracker1955 · « **Reply #41 on:** July 27, 2018, 10:10:12 PM »

You both might try wicking super thin super glue into the crack, they make one especially for plastics called UFO available through hobby shops.

Gertrude · « **Reply #42 on:** July 28, 2018, 02:32:39 AM »

yep,
The one I have is cracked too.

and it has less than 250 shots fired.

Wayne52 · « **Reply #43 on:** July 28, 2018, 04:08:48 AM »

I might send them an email about my cracked magazine because for all the stuff that I've done to the 25 so far it would seem like they'd at least send me a new one in good shape. I did get my .177 today, filled it with no problems, I was going to let it wait til tomorrow to see if it was leaking but I couldn't help myself, just had to do an out of the box chrony test with the Benjamin 7.9's. I'll probably fill it back up to test 13 of the Skenco's that I have cause it's shooting the 7.9's too fast I think, I doubt they'll be stable at a distance but I am pretty much inexperienced shooting the .177's at these velocities

I can also say that the trigger on this one is very good, I won't even mess with this one except inspect things when I get the air out of it. That would be really cool if I didn't have any problems with the o rings on this gun but I've got some ordered to fix my DAR25.

15.8g Skenco
1. er 14. 1054 27. 1081 40. er 53. 1066 Well I just had to try out the --------------> 1. 781.3 =21.42fpe
2. 1047 15. 1060 28. 1066 41. 1046 54. 1057 Skenco's so I topped the gun 2. 792.2=22.02fpe
3. 1045 16. 1052 29. 1056 42. 1055 55. er back up to 3K again. 3. 770.6=21.93fpe
4. er 17. 1072 30. 1059 43. 1062 56. 1038 4. 798.0=22.06fpe
5. 1052 18. 1058 31. er 44. 1071 57. 1048 5. 787.6=21.76fpe
6. 1053 19. er 32. 1076 45. 1074 58. 1058 <-- most likely the lasted regulated shot (120bar) 6. 788.5=21.81fpe
7. 1048 20. er 33. 1058 46. er 59. er 7. 783.9=21.56fpe
8. 1048 21. 1049 34. 1061 47. 1072 60. 1036 8. 785.7=21.66fpe
9. 1065 22. 1076 35. 1072 48. 1071 61. 1029 9. 802.5=22.59fpe
10. 1065 23. 1061 36. 1063 49. 1072 62. 1017 10. 775.8=21.12fpe
11. 1074 24. 1053 37. 1058 50. er 63. 1018 11. 771.2=20.87fpe
12. 1063 25. er 38. 1060 51. 1058 64. 1021 12. 770.3=20.82fpe
13. er 26. 1061 39. 1057 52. 1065 65. 1006 13. 794.2=22.13fpe

tracker1955 · « **Reply #44 on:** July 28, 2018, 09:00:49 AM »

Wayne, those first pellets are shooting way to fast, doubt they'll be very accurate at that speed. If you can order some AA 10.34gr I think your FPS and FPE will be right where it needs to be. If your skenco's shoot good they're a bit slow but will pack a wallop. Glad to hear you like the trigger better in this one, mine seems to be getting a little better with wear but it has a lot of creep.

anti-squirrel · « **Reply #45 on:** July 28, 2018, 09:56:23 AM »

Just a word- those Chinese o-rings are not cheap quality... They fail super-fast for several reasons:

1: improper assembly method- you should use a brass "spoon" with no sharp edges to gently stretch an o-ring over lands to drop into a groove. And yeah, the edge between the land and groove should be free of burrs or rolled edges. I can easily see some poor factory worker manhandling those o-rings and knicking the vast majority. In the Navy, we always moved those guys to the "outside machine shop".

2: wrong durometer and wrong type. They would work fine in a hydraulic system, especially when teflon o-ring retainers sat on each side in the groove. The problem is air is a much thinner fluid than any hydraulic fluid, and given the type of load on the o-rings in a PCP, they fail right away.

I base this on working in a hydraulic shop and HPAir shop (31-A and 31-F at TRF/Bangor) in the Navy, and having both QA'd and rebuilt many millions of dollars worth of hydraulic/HPA/compressed gas valves. Simple stated, wrong o-ring for the job and a poor quality of assembly. They are not the lower quality one sees in a Harbor Freight o-ring pack where casting seams are visible. The difference is a cheaper-quality but harder o-ring made out of the RIGHT material (Viton or BUNA-nitrile) will last where the overly-soft incorrect O-ring will fail.

I'm not saying the Chinese ones won't fail, but my SPA pistol is still on the OEM O-rings several years after purchase with many tins of pellets down the bore. And FWIW, I have seen o-ring with millions of cycles in dynamic operation stay leak free. It all boils down to quality of assembly and maintaining a system free of foreign material.

Now back to the main story... Wayne, that .177 is a screamer. GEtchoo some Skenco Ultra Shocks as well the JSB Ultrashocks. They are incredibly destructive on small critters. Some other heavy-weights are the Beeman Silver Jets pointed (they shoot incredibly out of my SPA pistol)... I am sorely tempted to skip getting a .25 for my next PCP and just opt for for a .177.

Wayne52 · « **Reply #46 on:** July 28, 2018, 02:13:57 PM »

Peter the only o rings that have failed in any of my SPA's were the fill probe o rings, all the others are still original and I use those guns too, they don't set idle for too very long.

Fill probe o rings take a beating and I don't care what gun it is, they're eventually going to probably the first to let loose in most of them..

It hasn't been that long since I went hunting with my PP700SA, I simply love that pistol, it never fails me, pretty much all my SPA's are really quite reliable.

Wayne52 · « **Reply #47 on:** July 28, 2018, 03:09:25 PM »

I just installed new o rings in my .25 that I got in the mail today, The -118's have too big of an ID so I used the -117 90 duro and they fit much tighter than what the -117 70 duro fit, I think they're the exact size that you need but you just need the hard 90duro because the 70 duros when they let loose with the the Buna N's simply because they were too soft I think. I'll probably take the 25 out tomorrow and give it another thorough test tomorrow weather permitting, I doubt very much that it's going to leak because they were how an o ring is supposed to fit, nice and tight.

tracker1955 · « **Reply #48 on:** July 28, 2018, 11:47:01 PM »

Wayne, the Duro 90 still Buna-N or are they a different material? I can't get the 117's I got to hold a seal, sometimes they'd hold for one fill, or blow at about 2000 psi as I was filling. Sure makes you jump when they go, scares the dogs too. Please post if you have any problems with the new seals, if they hold I'll make a trip over to Nashville rubber and gasket after work Monday and see if they have some. Did you put them just on the regulator or at the ends of the air tube also? I want this thing to work so bad, had high hopes that the Duro 70 would fix it.

Wayne52 · « **Reply #49 on:** July 29, 2018, 06:11:34 AM »

Tom I only used them on the regulator, I just checked it again and I think the 90duro's are just what the doctor ordered. The -117's are definitely the correct size though I did get about 3 days on the 70duro but they finally opened up and once they open up it's dump time. The O-rings were still good but they were just too soft to handle the constant pressure. The O-rings on either end are good @ 70duro, they're a compression fitting rather than the application used on the regulator. I'll eventually be taking my .177 apart too when it fails (just a matter of time) and measure the ID of the air tube, I'm going to figure out something for a depinger on these guns because they do create some harmonics.

The reason for the harmonics is the fact the regulator is recessed up in the air tube with the spacer that it still makes quite a ping, I remember in another thread about these guns Bob Stearne was curious as to why there's a ping when there is a regulator and this is the best reason that I can think of.

deerflyguy · « **Reply #50 on:** July 29, 2018, 10:07:59 AM »

Tom:

You've got that right about the sound of an "O" ring letting go on a full fill when you least expect it!
I had a Hatsan let go in my home one night while I was surfing the web.
Came close to having to change my britches!
Scared the b'geezers out of me, and re positioned my heart from my chest into my throat!

~ deerflyguy

Wayne52 · « **Reply #51 on:** July 29, 2018, 02:29:58 PM »

Well I took mine out shooting this morning with absolutely no problems, I put 60 shots through it with 3 refills without a problem, she's working great. Pretty dag gone accurate too I might add

Rat Sniper (AKA: PaulT58) · « **Reply #52 on:** July 29, 2018, 03:04:29 PM »

Quote from: Wayne52 on July 29, 2018, 02:29:58 PM

Well I took mine out shooting this morning with absolutely no problems, I put 60 shots through it with 3 refills without a problem, she's working great. Pretty dag gone accurate too I might add

What's the serial number on that DAR177 Wayne? Just curious how far along they are, sounds like QC has improved!

K.O. · « **Reply #53 on:** July 29, 2018, 03:49:13 PM »

Me right now I am a bit bummed my oldest son needed a bit of help...had a black wrap pre can on the end BSA Buc .22 on pre order 299$... had to cancel... and now they are in stock... Have had my .177 (277$) for a good while now and 0 probs...

I do think for us here it is good to have options and if parts and support turn into a reality and for long term these may be a good option... heck guys are keeping their B50s running...

but the bad threading on the flying dragon tubes... mix it with the oring probs on these and spa rifles... it just makes me leery of the specs all around... just really want to feel good about attention to detail with 3000 psi...

for those with knowledge of PCPs and know what to look at fine... but for a neophyte..? I would recommend wait a while longer while you guys give them a good shake out and the parts supply is proven...

Wayne52 · « **Reply #54 on:** July 29, 2018, 08:36:17 PM »

Tom the serial on the .177 is DW12170006. Thats a much lower number than my 25.

tracker1955 · « **Reply #55 on:** July 29, 2018, 10:05:19 PM »

Thanks Wayne for the info, will try Nashville rubber and gasket tomorrow for the o-rings. I was thinking about this today at work, wondering if the ID on some of these air tubes are larger than others by a few thousands making a difference in how well the o-rings seal. I also wondered if the tube being aluminum may be stretching or swelling a bit causing the o-rings to fail at their outer rim. (why did it take mine awhile to fail) I just know I have never put more than 3000 psi in the tube, and to add to that the gage on my fill station and the one on my rifle match exactly so they both confirm it. There has to be a common link between why some DAR rifles are having trouble and some aren't. Would like to know what the inside tube measures across multiple rifles and if this is another quality control issue needing attention. inquiring minds want to know.......

Wayne52 · « **Reply #56 on:** July 29, 2018, 11:20:43 PM »

Tom another odd thing about some of them is the fact there was some sort of shimming tape under the o rings. All 4 of the big ones for the airtube and regulator had that stuff wrapped in the groove.

tracker1955 · « **Reply #57 on:** July 29, 2018, 11:58:40 PM »

Mine had it in the grooves under the o-rings at both ends of the air tube but not under the rings on the regulator. Makes you suspect the depth of the groves were over machined. I put a 117 ring at each end and they seem to be sealing fine, it's just at the regulator that the outer edge keeps shredding.

Wayne52 · « **Reply #58 on:** August 03, 2018, 06:43:54 AM »

For anyone putting new o rings on the valve and airtube I highly recommend taking a magnified look at all the o ring grooves because whatever it is that they used can almost be transparent when there's silicone oil on it.

tracker1955 · « **Reply #59 on:** August 05, 2018, 12:27:31 AM »

Well, not wanting to let this thing beat me I took another stab at it tonight after church. The first thing I did was put some air in the tube and confirm with soapy water that the only place I was getting a leak from was the vent hole for the regulator. Yup, no other leaks, air tube ends seal fine as well as valve poppet, no air coming out the barrel shroud. Took the rifle apart and checked to see if shimming the regulator forward 3/32" would cure the problem in case the vent hole was to close to the o-ring, nope that's not it. This time I took the duro 90's out and replaced them with a metric set that I had around as a repair kit from my old Bam B-50 that I had tuned and given to my grandsons, they were just slightly bigger in diameter than the #117's. They felt good going in but still would not hold air. I'm at my wits end with this thing, I really didn't want to let this thing beat me but without a way to close the gap between the air tube and the o-ring I guess it's won. Didn't hear back from Ryan at Aim Sports Friday afternoon and suspect he's off for the weekend so will have to wait till Monday to see what he can suggest. Don't know if it need's a different regulator, air tube or both.

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More DAR bad luck

Author Topic: More DAR bad luck (Read 20523 times))