I'm so burned out on springers

[nced]

Anyway, can anybody relate to this?  I love airguns and I loved tinkering with them when I had time, but I don't anymore.  Now, I just want out of the box performance.  I might just unload my springers in favor of some single shot multi pump and CO2 rifles.

Yes, I can

I used a 1960's .22 8ft lb target rifle from East Germany - a Haenel - finally had to give up on it as it was worn out

I replaced it with a new .22 deluxe Chinese POS that despite tuning, was still a POS

I then bought a German HW95 with barrel weight in .177 - superb accuracy after tuning to get rid of the horrid twang, but I missed knock-down power of .22 - and it had to be held just right every time to get the accuracy

I then bought a German HW99s in .22 - and despite every reviewer saying it was superb, it is in my opinion an expensive German POS that has defects

I then went for Benjamin Trail NP gas ram in .22 - tuned out to be another Chinese POS made from identical parts as my first Chinese POS deluxe air rifle - I'm thinking it is from the same Chinese factory, despite claims of USA manufacture

I'd now had enough, and went to a gun shop to buy a PCP - a new German .22 Walther RM8 varmint - shop owner was useless and couldn't find the fill probe, but eventually found it in a drawer - but could not find the .22 magazine anywhere. I had traveled, and had already received my Yong Heng compressor from China, so was determined to get a PCP that day - I paid too much for an 8 years old English AirArms s400 single shot in .22 he had in stock - but it's proved to be a phenomenal air rifle - even fitted with the cheap centerpoint scope that came with the Benjamin trail NP it's a killing machine - one of those rifles you can't seem to miss with

I then went all-out and got a 2 years old English AirArms s510 multi-shot in .22 - got a big expensive scope on it - would you believe it, I miss more times than I hit with it

My advice is go PCP and get an AirArms s400 single shot - rifle is amazing - but you need a silencer as it makes a loud crack - they make the same rifle as s410 in multi-shot, but I've read that being single shot is why it's deadly accurate

 "but you need a silencer as it makes a loud crack"
My understanding is that a silencer on an airgun is illegal if it can be removed. LOL.....many airgun forums don't even allow discussion of silencers due to possible legal ramifications!

https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2014/11/an-update-on-airgun-silencers/

From the above...........
"Are they removable?
So many airguns come with built-in silencers these days, the question becomes, “Can they be removed and installed on a firearm?” If they can and if they reduce the sound of that firearm for even one shot, they meet the definition of a silencer and must be registered. People discuss this to absurdity! Because anything CAN be done. The question is whether or not it can be done relatively easily so there’s a real danger.

This is why I’ve stressed so strongly that buying a silenced airgun from Pyramyd Air is your safety net. They know which manufacturers have produced approved airguns that are quiet. They also know the airguns that the BATF&E might question, and they won’t sell those."

[avator]

"Silencers" are NOT illegal on airguns. "Silencers" made for air guns typically wouldn't withstand the power of a powder burner. GTA recently changed their rules to allow the discussion of silencers providing we don't discus how to make them. Websites and forums that ban the discussion of these are only doing so to remain on the "safe side" of things. Distributors who prohibit them are the same distributors who refuse to ship air gun related products to certain general areas where they may or may not be banned.

[Tonykarter]

ATF is pretty clear in this.  Any gun part that can be used on another gun to lessen its report, even if it involves a few hours or afternoon of basic machining to make it work, even for one shot, fits the legal description of a (we can't even use the word, can we?).  My daughter was friends with an ATF agent.  He confirmed, they do not interpret in favor of the possessor of such a device.  Something as innocent as having your music up too loud when you are shooting and get a visit from the local constabulary.  They came for the music, but they are looking to take somebody in every trip if they can. Every trip.  That's their job.  Find crime, start the prosecutorial process.   I'd like to have 5 years off, but not that way.   As for buying from PA and thinking that covers your @!!:  Find the American Airgunner episode dealing with "the word we cannot say".  Watch it 2-3 times so that it all sinks in.  That segment is a veiled disclaimer, carefully scripted and packaged.  While it is FYI in nature, let's not be coy with each other about its real purpose.  While informational, it was aired so as to cover as many butts in the industry as possible, to give as many as possible plausible deniability.  Tom even says in it that he knows of people that have been charged and went to jail.  Ask yourself, if you had to distill that segment down to a thesis statement, what would it be?  Bottom line...if they want you, they will use this to get you. 

 I make my living helping others recognize and plan for risk.   This is risky. 

[Bryan Heimann]

If it gets locked for the silencer discussion I will die laughing.

I am ok with leaving it at the fact the ATF is always looking for a reason to take your guns, so why take the risk.  I am pretty sure we can all agree with that.

[SteveUK]

My advice is go PCP and get an AirArms s400 single shot - rifle is amazing - but you need a silencer as it makes a loud crack - they make the same rifle as s410 in multi-shot, but I've read that being single shot is why it's deadly accurate


"but you need a silencer as it makes a loud crack"
My understanding is that a silencer on an airgun is illegal if it can be removed. LOL.....many airgun forums don't even allow discussion of silencers due to possible legal ramifications!

I was forgetting about stupid USA airgun laws - I'm in Britain/UK - we have stupid power level airgun laws, but silencers/moderators are not regulated - just that we have to buy them in person face to face and they cannot be purchased by mail order from a dealer

[a1rgunz]

The ATF makes their thinking quite clear on their website. Their thinking, while it hasn't changed, didn't stand up in a court of law, even when applied to someone who appears to be a rather unsavory person: https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-1st-circuit/1527670.html.

I'm no lawyer, but it seems from reading this case if you own a detachable airgun silencer, you better not have a easy method of attachment to a firearm that is in your possession. If you are committing other crimes, it is also reasonable to expect them to throw the book at you when you are caught, so you can expect the same treatment Mr. Crooker endured. The one thing you'll have going for you is this existing case on the books. Could a higher court reverse this ruling? I don't know.

This line is something else to consider:

His attitude toward shipping chemicals shows an indifference to law, and (quite apart from silencers) even more disturbing is his professed interest as a convicted felon in airguns that could be as powerful as firearms.  

Let's all remember to handle our airguns responsibly.

[xtred1]

Burned on springers, and what do you do? Buy a springer! and a project gun at that    Had to razz you a little bit.   

[nced]

My advice is go PCP and get an AirArms s400 single shot - rifle is amazing - but you need a silencer as it makes a loud crack - they make the same rifle as s410 in multi-shot, but I've read that being single shot is why it's deadly accurate


"but you need a silencer as it makes a loud crack"
My understanding is that a silencer on an airgun is illegal if it can be removed. LOL.....many airgun forums don't even allow discussion of silencers due to possible legal ramifications!

I was forgetting about stupid USA airgun laws - I'm in Britain/UK - we have stupid power level airgun laws, but silencers/moderators are not regulated - just that we have to buy them in person face to face and they cannot be purchased by mail order from a dealer

Yep....both the USA and UK are guilty of SOME stupid airgun rules!

[Bryan Heimann]

Burned on springers, and what do you do? Buy a springer! and a project gun at that    Had to razz you a little bit.   

I deserve it.  If you saw an hw35 that wasn't completely trashed for $100 at the pawn shop, i bet you'd make a deal too!

[f4milytime]

I don't get so much burnt out. Just wish I could afford something really high end !. But hey; who doesn't...   

[nced]

Burned on springers, and what do you do? Buy a springer! and a project gun at that    Had to razz you a little bit.   

I deserve it.  If you saw an hw35 that wasn't completely trashed for $100 at the pawn shop, i bet you'd make a deal too!

Interesting, my second adult springer was a .177 HW35 that I bought after selling a .177 HW50 decades ago. When I had the HW35 it was re-sprung with a new Maccari spring kit and the piston was replaced with a new piston bought from Beeman that had a synthetic piston seal rather than the origional leather seal. After the spring and piston replacement the "35" shot .177 RWS SuperDomes (the most accurate pellet from that gun) at only 680 fps.

After about 15 years with the HW35, being annoyed with it's lack of "power relative to weight and cocking effort", I bought a Beeman R10. LOL........the R10 I found that it shot 8 grain pellets 100fps faster than the HW35 with similar cocking effort and it didn't seem to be any heavier than the "35". The R10 it was also considerably more useful for squirrel hunting than the HW35 so the "35" sat unused in a closet for a few years till I took it to the Mid Atlantic Airgun Show that used to be held at the Damascus, MD Issac Walton League where the DIFTA field target matches are held.

I noticed a fellow shooting a beat up looking HW35 at the "try it out range" and he wasn't very impressed with that beater considering the price. I mentioned that I wanted to sell my old HW35 and had it in the car if he wanted to tty it out. He took a couple shots with my Maccari sprung/synthetic sealed HW35 and paid me my asking $150 in cash on the spot.

LOL....there is a big following for that classic break barrel but I really don't know why! 

[Bryan Heimann]

Burned on springers, and what do you do? Buy a springer! and a project gun at that    Had to razz you a little bit.   

I deserve it.  If you saw an hw35 that wasn't completely trashed for $100 at the pawn shop, i bet you'd make a deal too!

Interesting, my second adult springer was a .177 HW35 that I bought after selling a .177 HW50 decades ago. When I had the HW35 it was re-sprung with a new Maccari spring kit and the piston was replaced with a new piston bought from Beeman that had a synthetic piston seal rather than the origional leather seal. After the spring and piston replacement the "35" shot .177 RWS SuperDomes (the most accurate pellet from that gun) at only 680 fps.

After about 15 years with the HW35, being annoyed with it's lack of "power relative to weight and cocking effort", I bought a Beeman R10. LOL........the R10 I found that it shot 8 grain pellets 100fps faster than the HW35 with similar cocking effort and it didn't seem to be any heavier than the "35". The R10 it was also considerably more useful for squirrel hunting than the HW35 so the "35" sat unused in a closet for a few years till I took it to the Mid Atlantic Airgun Show that used to be held at the Damascus, MD Issac Walton League where the DIFTA field target matches are held.

I noticed a fellow shooting a beat up looking HW35 at the "try it out range" and he wasn't very impressed with that beater considering the price. I mentioned that I wanted to sell my old HW35 and had it in the car if he wanted to tty it out. He took a couple shots with my Maccari sprung/synthetic sealed HW35 and paid me my asking $150 in cash on the spot.

LOL....there is a big following for that classic break barrel but I really don't know why! 

I am beginning to see why.  I am falling in love with it.  I like it so much, I might have to find another one

[xtred1]

Burned on springers, and what do you do? Buy a springer! and a project gun at that    Had to razz you a little bit.   

I deserve it.  If you saw an hw35 that wasn't completely trashed for $100 at the pawn shop, i bet you'd make a deal too!

No really I am very happy for you. It is a very nice find. I just had to give you a little fun.  Matter of fact I sort of find myself desiring a HW30s. So I totally understand.

[DanD]

I am beginning to see why.  I am falling in love with it.  I like it so much, I might have to find another one

A properly functioning HW will often cure the springer blues.

[Bryan Heimann]

Verdict is still out on just how proper it functions, lol.  I'll get back to ya'll on that.  Soon as I get a chance to shoot some groups

[scrane]

Burned on springers, and what do you do? Buy a springer! and a project gun at that    Had to razz you a little bit.   

I deserve it.  If you saw an hw35 that wasn't completely trashed for $100 at the pawn shop, i bet you'd make a deal too!

After the spring and piston replacement the "35" shot .177 RWS SuperDomes (the most accurate pellet from that gun) at only 680 fps.

You should have then re-upgraded it to a leather seal. I think it's pretty well established that going to a synthetic seal will drop power in an old 35 if you don't fiddle with the transfer port.

[nced]

Burned on springers, and what do you do? Buy a springer! and a project gun at that    Had to razz you a little bit.   

I deserve it.  If you saw an hw35 that wasn't completely trashed for $100 at the pawn shop, i bet you'd make a deal too!

After the spring and piston replacement the "35" shot .177 RWS SuperDomes (the most accurate pellet from that gun) at only 680 fps.

You should have then re-upgraded it to a leather seal. I think it's pretty well established that going to a synthetic seal will drop power in an old 35 if you don't fiddle with the transfer port.

Problem with the leather seal was the fact that the velocity of the gun was rather unstable depending on the amount of oil in the seal. LOL....Beeman recommended a couple drops of "compression chamber oil" down the transfer port every tin of pellets. The synthetic piston seal gave a more stable velocity and more consistent poi. I didn't own a chrony before buying the synthetic sealed piston but it didn't seem the velocity was higher with the leather seal except when it was freshly oiled and dieseling.

Anywhoo......that was when I was new to springers so I called Jim Maccari (Beeman tech support recommended I talk to "The Spring Man") about increasing the velocity of my HW35 with a stronger spring,  I was told that there wasn't much that could be done without making the shot cycle very harsh due to the short stroke large diameter 30mm receiver.  I'm thinking that the HW35 was simply "ill suited" for my airgunning which was largely squirrel hunting and "bird feeder protection" when living in West Virginia. Matter of fact, I had a raccoon breaking apart a bird feeder and a shot from the HW35 right above the eyes didn't even seem to bother the bandit. It even hung on the feeder giving me another shot that glanced off the angular head, then it left the bird feeder. 

[lizzie]

I am beginning to see why.  I am falling in love with it.  I like it so much, I might have to find another one

A properly functioning HW will often cure the springer blues.

truer words were never spoken.

haha

[desmobob]

A properly functioning HW will often cure the springer blues.

Well said!

Tight groups,
Bob

[Daniel L]

I had similar problems in life... starting with untuned Gamos, then tuned Gamos, gas rams, Cometas... they all shot ok but demanded more from me than I could give,  and finally I bought myself a tuned HW95. So far best trigger and least hold sensitive.

Ha I should have started there, but it's been a great ride and play with a lot of rifles.

If you don't need high hunting power levels  then a tuned  HW30 would be a treat.

I also have a modded Crosman 2250, but but if I wanted a completely self contained system for plinking I'd get a Crosman 1300KT multipump and you're on tinker heaven   or one of those Daisy 753 single stroke pneumatics with a trigger job but the $$ are more.