Does lubing pellets increase accuracy and extend cleaning interval in your PCP?

[plinker81366]

i use to lube before, now i dont, i just leave them pellets alone, i run a patch or 2 every 3-4 card though

[Fred J]

Very interesting discussion on ballistics. May I share an observation that I have made?

When I started this thread this thread I shared how the accuracy of my MRod with JSB 10.3gr pellets improved when I increased the velocity from 835 fps to 890 fps. I have read were several other folks noted their ideal velocity of the MRod with 10.3gr pellets to be in the 880-910 fps range.

My other HFT rifle is a AA TX200, tuned to 13.5 fpe. I shoot the same pellet in it (JSB 10.3gr). The rifle has a MV of 770 fps. In this rifle the pellet is incredibly accurate at this slower velocity. This is probably no surprise to anyone. After all, the TX200 has a Lothar Walther barrel, while the MRod does not.

So here is my thought on ballistics, although I am very much a novice  : From my limited experience, ballistics is a function of the pellet, velocity, and the rifle barrel.

[elh0102]

So here is my thought on ballistics, although I am very much a novice  : From my limited experience, ballistics is a function of the pellet, velocity, and the rifle barrel.

And that's all you need to know! Except for some very basic stuff, it all gets down to testing pellets in a given barrel. Often the results are predictable, sometimes seem to defy logic.

[Fred J]

First of all, thank you for all your thoughts and advice.

Just to let you know how everything shook out with the pellet lubing issue with my MRod pellets:

I found that FP10 is better for lubing my pellets than Gamo oil. I used to have to clean my barrel every 120 shots. Today I cleaned the barrel after 200 shots with pellets lubed with FP10, and the patches didn't look half bad. I think I can extend my cleaning interval out to 300, and possibly 500 shots to see how long I can go without cleaning before accuracy suffers.

I am leaving the rifle tuned to shoot JSB 10.3gr pellets at 891 fps. At this tune, I am getting 55-60 shots with an extreme spread of 11.5 fps when I fill the rifle to 2550 psi and shoot it down to 1759 psi. What really helps this shot string in the twin spring hammer spring system and the MDS hammer that I installed in the MRod.

Over the last three days I have shot five 50 yard targets under varying wind conditions (~5 mph crosswind). The average group size was 0.8 inches with a range of 0.56" to 1.12". Four out of five targets had group sizes less than 1 inch.

I was about to give up on the MRod for HFT matches. I had even gone so far as to order a BSA R-11 mk2. However, the MRod is doing so well that I may cancel this order. 

[skorec]

Before you will buy new gun try to shoot 50yd  at death calm weather ( at dusk ) or better at indoor place .

[Motorhead]

I hesitate to call it a quote, but if my memory serves me correctly, Motorhead mentioned that he simply uses a mixture of synthetic 2 cycle oil and gasoline. I can’t remember the ratio 50:1, 32:1???  Someone correct me if I’m wrong please. I don’t want to pass on bad information and my memory isn’t quite as sharp as it used to be.

While i have primarily used Finishline Krytek wax chain lube on harder pellets such as Crosman and H&N after a cleaning. Also have had very good success when cleaning pellets with Naptha that after a couple wash cycles to settle out the loose chaf that the final wash was with 2 stroke oil in the naptha ( Just a wetting really ) places a film over the entire lead surface of pellet preventing oxidation while also having a very minor film of lubricant.
Done at @ 16:1 or so, when pellets spread out to dry ( Naptha evaporate ) the oil film left behind is not really wet but more of trace film that does not drip or run etc ...

In my Match rifles that use HW or LW barrels that are lapped & polished ... using JSB pellets they require no lube at all to provide there best accuracy.

IMO really more a barrel thing and if or not your pellets get/are oxidized & speeds your shooting them at.  Not really right or wrong to lube but IF OR NOT your gun/barrel pellet combo wants it 

[Fred J]

This morning was pretty calm (0-5 mph), so I shot three 5-shot groups at 50 yards before the wind picked up. The group sizes ranged from 0.688" to 0.875", with and average of 0.792" (center to center). I shot these groups off of buckets and sticks, so I am pretty happy with the results.

When I pool this mornings data with the past three day (5 50-yard groups), I'm getting an average of 0.8", center to center.

If there is anyone out there who has shot 8 50 yard targets in a row over 5 days with a BSA R-ll mk2 with these kind of results, please let me know. I need to make a decision if I should cancel my order for the BSA R-11 mk2.

Thank you!

[Nomadic Pirate]

I lube pellets like H&N and Benjamins, I don't lube JSB and Predators.

Benjamin pellets I first clean with WD40 then lube ( Slick 50, Ballistol, chain lube, Pledge, ...depends what I have ).

H&N pellets I just rub them with paper towel then lube.

.....Hardly ever clean my barrels.

[skorec]

Fred,
 0,8”/50yd  is acceptable with  JSB/ .177/10,3gr/890pFPS/no lube/(0-5mph)/no using clamp  but not the best.  Try to shoot at totally dead  calm  weather and tune your barrel ( lapping , free floating,  tense/CF stiffening the barrel  ,  better barrel fixing/stiffening  inside breech,…  )

[Fred J]

Thank you for the advice skorec. I have tried all your excellent recommendations in the past, and they did not help the accuracy of the MRod. This MRod shoots best without baffles, with the barrel free sloated. I tried polishing the barrel with JB paste, but it did not improve accuracy.

My problem is that the wind almost always blows here (I live on a hill). This morning I finally shot a dime-size group (9/16") at 50 yards off
 bucket and sticks in a 10 mph wind (45 degrees across the range). Also, for some unknown reason, I shoot my best off buckets and sticks. I just can't seem to get the hang bench rest shooting 

I spent most of the time this morning shooting a mildot correction curve targets off a bucket and sticks at 10, 12, 15, 18, 21, 25, 35, 40, and 50 yards for my upcoming HFT match. All groups at all distances could be covered with a dime. All groups out to 21 yards could be covered with a 22 Cal pellet. I sure that their are some shooters who could do much better than this, but I am satisfied for now.

The more I shoot pellets lubed with FP10, the more accurate the MRod seems to get. I still need to refine my hold on the pistol grip (I was holding it too lightly), and I need to be more consistent with my follow though on my trigger pull. So in other words, my MRod is accurate, but some work needs to be done with the nut behind the trigger.

[Gear_Junkie]

I spent most of the time this morning shooting a mildot correction curve targets off a bucket and sticks at 10, 12, 15, 18, 21, 25, 35, 40, and 50 yards for my upcoming HFT match. All groups at all distances could be covered with a dime. All groups out to 21 yards could be covered with a 22 Cal pellet. I sure that their are some shooters who could do much better than this, but I am satisfied for now.

That is AMAZING shooting - well done!

[Mole2017]

...
I spent most of the time this morning shooting a mildot correction curve targets off a bucket and sticks at 10, 12, 15, 18, 21, 25, 35, 40, and 50 yards for my upcoming HFT match. ...

That would be interesting data to see if you can find the time to post it. I keep telling myself I should to the R10, but there are some logistical issues that will keep that off in the future for a while.

[skorec]

The rifle has a MV of 770 fps. In this rifle the pellet is incredibly accurate at this slower velocity.

I am thinking that only because for lover velocity shooting PCP  gun need lighter hammer strike which push the gun less.

[Fred J]

I use Chairgun Pro (free software available from Hawke) as an initial trajectory prediction, then I shoot at various distances to see what my actual Mildot corrections should be. Most of the time, Chairgun gives an accurate prediction. I use these corrections in Filed Target matches to compensate for the pellets trajectory, after I have estimated the distance with my side-wheel focuser.

[Mole2017]

Thanks for posting that, Fred! At 18 yards, is the actual mildot 0.25 or -0.25?  (That's the only one way out of line with chairgun and just seems out of line with the trend in the data.)

I wish I could say precisely what to expect with an R10, but I'm liking mine and others have too. Whenever I've been out to John's place to do some long range shooting, I've ended up spending almost all the time going after his woodchucks 

The regulator pitched another fit last week, so it is getting a Huma installed probably Tuesday evening if the package tracking is accurate.

[Fred J]

Thanks for catching that. The mildot correction at 18 yards is actually -0.25.

[plinker81366]

Thank you for the advice skorec. I have tried all your excellent recommendations in the past, and they did not help the accuracy of the MRod. This MRod shoots best without baffles, with the barrel free sloated. I tried polishing the barrel with JB paste, but it did not improve accuracy.

My problem is that the wind almost always blows here (I live on a hill). This morning I finally shot a dime-size group (9/16") at 50 yards off
 bucket and sticks in a 10 mph wind (45 degrees across the range). Also, for some unknown reason, I shoot my best off buckets and sticks. I just can't seem to get the hang bench rest shooting 

I spent most of the time this morning shooting a mildot correction curve targets off a bucket and sticks at 10, 12, 15, 18, 21, 25, 35, 40, and 50 yards for my upcoming HFT match. All groups at all distances could be covered with a dime. All groups out to 21 yards could be covered with a 22 Cal pellet. I sure that their are some shooters who could do much better than this, but I am satisfied for now.

The more I shoot pellets lubed with FP10, the more accurate the MRod seems to get. I still need to refine my hold on the pistol grip (I was holding it too lightly), and I need to be more consistent with my follow though on my trigger pull. So in other words, my MRod is accurate, but some work needs to be done with the nut behind the trigger.

fred the more you shoot the tighter the group,,sometimes its the shooter getting adjusted to the rifle,,its everything actually getting consistency like your hold where you put your head when shooting,  how you pull the trigger,, and 9/16 groupings at 50yds is excellent coz youre not using a table or bench rested

[plinker81366]

heres what i did at 45 yds forend support by ms table,, rear with my fist ,using a heavy rifle for bench shooting, 8.44's at 830 -840 fps

[lennyk]

Scott,

what grit do you end your lapping at ?
I recently discovered that too fine a grit causes much more friction.

I hesitate to call it a quote, but if my memory serves me correctly, Motorhead mentioned that he simply uses a mixture of synthetic 2 cycle oil and gasoline. I can’t remember the ratio 50:1, 32:1???  Someone correct me if I’m wrong please. I don’t want to pass on bad information and my memory isn’t quite as sharp as it used to be.

While i have primarily used Finishline Krytek wax chain lube on harder pellets such as Crosman and H&N after a cleaning. Also have had very good success when cleaning pellets with Naptha that after a couple wash cycles to settle out the loose chaf that the final wash was with 2 stroke oil in the naptha ( Just a wetting really ) places a film over the entire lead surface of pellet preventing oxidation while also having a very minor film of lubricant.
Done at @ 16:1 or so, when pellets spread out to dry ( Naptha evaporate ) the oil film left behind is not really wet but more of trace film that does not drip or run etc ...

In my Match rifles that use HW or LW barrels that are lapped & polished ... using JSB pellets they require no lube at all to provide there best accuracy.

IMO really more a barrel thing and if or not your pellets get/are oxidized & speeds your shooting them at.  Not really right or wrong to lube but IF OR NOT your gun/barrel pellet combo wants it 

[Springrrrr]

For those who wash pellets with soap and water, has anyone tried adding a touch of automotive car wax to the water, mix it up so the wax dissolves and use that mix as the lube?