BNM Bolt Probe Problems?

[Mudbugmitch]

Well said, sir.

[Privateer]

Stating the obvious problems and engaging in conversation on fixes is one thing.
As Bob, I'm sure intended for this thread.
It's turning into a bashfest which may well be deserved but is still against the rules here at GTA.
You may notice Rule 13 does not say GTA approved dealers but just dealers.
So let's turn down the bashfest stuff and take a breath.
There is a Gate to place reviews after all.

[ACZan]

When I started this topic back in my original, Crosman Discovery .22 Barrel Chamber-Leade Reamer, topic.  I had no idea it would become such a heated discussion and debate.  Fortunately, RSterne did see the potential of the subject and split it off onto its own topic.  Now it seems to be addressing other interrelated subjects.  Nearly 10,000 views in a few short weeks.  Leave it to me to stir up trouble when things are not done right.  I do it all the time at work.

My original goal was to identify if there was actually anything wrong and if it was widespread.  Had to make sure it wasn't just me.  But, had no ideal others did in the past and still were having trouble.  Sadly, Jay's topic on almost the same thing one or two years ago did not get the attention it needed. It had only accumulated over 6,000 views in the time that has passed.  I think everyone should take some time to read through that whole topic.  I did.

Without a doubt this topic has been helpful in confirming problems with the manufacturer and its products.  A safety issue with a manufacturer's products cannot be overlooked at all.  These types of topics have to serve as a consumer advocacy community service message to some degree.  That is generally what I see in all forums covering every subject matter.

Is it the status updates waiting for the manufacturer to respond to customers inquires what makes the conversation look like bashing?  Maybe.  A gripe repeated more than several times. Maybe.  Should we have those posts removed which are questionable?  We might need an expanded/revised definition of bashing.

At this juncture, we are waiting from the manufacturer as to whether they are not are going to fix a defect which affects many.  What is specifically that defect and the fix to correct it.  Our reports on our recourse with the manufacturer do let others know where they stand in dealing with a potential safety issue.  There's bound to be derogatory context sprinkled throughout the whole conversation.  Nearly unavoidable.

With that said, I am trying to work this to a collaborative solution.

[Privateer]

dealing with a potential safety issue

WOW! Now where did that come from? I'm posting as just a member not a moderator at this time.
In no past posts have I seen anyone say it was a safety issue. Not even past threads! Nor have I ever seen that claim on the BNM products.
Crying Wolf will not help the cause. So I hope you can back that statement up.
 

[Mudbugmitch]

Why couldn't it be a "Potential" safety issue. My bolt doesn't push the projectile all the way into the barrel, partially blocking the transfer tube. With over 2000 psi going up that partially blocked transfer port, where is it to go, couldn't that be a "potential" safety issue ?

Just my opinion as a shooter.

Mitch

[ACZan]

David,

With all that stored energy being released and not properly being routed due to the path being block, that is a potential safety issue.  In my understanding of systems as an engineer, it would be classified as such.  Did you see how much my port is blocked by misplacement of the pellet over the barrel port.  I believe Pecor said it looked like more than 80%.  There is no telling where all that stored energy is going to be directed when it doesn't follow the designed path.  Safety risks increase quit a bit under those circumstances.

KnifeMaker was saying that he could put tissue paper over the breech area and the air was going everywhere.  The leak was that bad due to the blocking of the port.

[ACZan]

Actually, there was a reference to a "safety issue" in the text of the email conversations with BNM Custom on page 6.  Get the feeling not everyone reads the whole reply of some of the longer replies.

[uncle paulie]

Re: Safety issue.... I have an early Benjamin NPXL 1100. It shoots CHP's at 915 fps. As with most springers, eventually the breach seal becomes worn to the point where it will leak. The easy test for this is to place a tissue over the breach and fire the gun. In my experience, my gun went from shooting one shot normally to the next shot not even making it half the distance to the target. The tissue test confirmed the breach seal was damaged and in fact, a piece of it had broken away. I suppose one could make the point that that was a safety issue, but I have never heard of that described as such; as you would likely have to put your eye directly over the breach to receive any injury. My point is that unless a PCP dumped its total volume of air in one burst, it is only producing roughly the same volume of air as a springer on a shot X shot basis. Just because someone says something is a "safety issue", doesn't necessarily make it so.

pv

                             

[Kmaz]

Look... there communication stinks. That's been documented on here for years. I've posted many times that I'm completely satisfied with mine. A month ago I left a post in the review gate stating a good product, poor communication. The two gentlemen looking for resolution are not happy, I get it....I've been there. Like one other individual on here I have since massaged mine to further advance the pellet, and gained some fps in the process. (Shaved barrel down 3/32", reshaped tp seat in barrel, etc.)  but I enjoy doing that stuff. I suggest if your not gonna be happy, send it back and close the door and be done. My biggest problem on this thread is when people who don't own one of there breeches continues to chime in.
I have to ask... pecor, I've seen that you purchased parts (barrel bands) in the past and had a bad experience. In your last post you specifically said you sent the breech back. Which is it? Misinformation helps no one. To azcan and mudbug.. I do completely agree with your side.. please.. no offense meant.
Kris

[rsterne]

In case nobody has figured it out yet.... my purpose for starting this thread was to tie in the pellet not being loaded past the barrel port to the reports from the past of severe velocity loss from some owners of the BNM breech.... As I stated before, I have never owned one, and have no dog in this fight.... but if it turns out that having the pellet end up in the middle of the port is a common problem, then IMO the manufacturer need to address it.... There is no finer venue for such a discussion as the GTA, but as I stated way back on page 3, this should not turn into a bash fest, which IMO it has....

All those involved need to stick to the FACTS, both regarding the problem (where the pellet ends up when loaded with a stock BNM breech and bolt).... and IMO are also justified in stating what problems, if any, they have had with BNM resolving the situation.... My guess is that now that this issue is out in the open, BNM will determine what the problem is, how many breeches it affects, and fix it.... This takes time, and you need to be patient.... On the other hand, if they are unwilling to do anything about the problem, and continue to sell breeches, then the GTA management has the right to do what they did with the "arrow guy" to protect GTA Forum members, right?....

Bob

[Mudbugmitch]

Well said Bob.

But if the FACTS are bashing, what other means are there of telling our side of this dispute ?

"Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”


Mitch

[rsterne]

I think it's the comments about "never dealing with them again", or suggesting they be reported for tax evasion (with NO proof)?.... REALLY?.... Stick to the facts, as they apply to YOU, and leave out the opinions, and you should be OK.... Try and influence what others do (they should be smart enough to figure it out for themselves, and if not, buyer beware).... or any name calling.... and I'm with David.... that's bashing.... I know it's a fine line.... but everyone here is smart enough to know the difference.... especially after a couple of warnings....

Just think about what you are typing before you hit the enter key.... 

Bob

[pecor]

Kmaz  To answer your question, The breech was ordered for no shroud, the bands I received were for a shroud?? The Barrel Hole in the band was kinda Big, for the crosman barrel. That kinda slowed the process down, after receiving the Correct bands, after god knows how long. I did the assembly, The pellet did not load correctly into the leade of the Bore. So I viewed the online installation video. It was clearly installed correctly.  And you know the rest of the story.  Heck you live in NY, Maybe you could stop by their and show them where and what the problem is and how you fixed it??  Maybe you'd get another breech out of the deal. You could ether use it or sell it. 

[Mudbugmitch]

Fact. I bought a breech
Fact. I recieved said breech
Fact. I installed said breech
Fact. I noticed that I had lost 50 fps
Fact. I broke down and inspected the new breech
Fact. I determined that it had been installed correctly
Fact. I went to GTA for any help or recommendations
Fact. I found that I was not the only one having this problem
Fact. I then reinspected said breech to find that it was not properly loading pellets
Fact. I emailed manufacturer of said breech and told him my problem
Fact. I was told that they were investigating
Fact. I emailed again to add pictures for proof and asked about "investigation
Fact. I was told that I probably would need a new "pin" and to send back the breech
Fact. I emailed them again and balked at having to pay shipping
Fact. Their reply was to keep the breech and they would send me a return postage with new breech
Fact. I'm still waiting
Fact. I have emailed several times and have gotten no response

Fact. As a member of GTA, I can tell facts but be warned of BASHING
Fact. The company that I am warning other members about are protected by Rule 13

Fact. That just doesn't sound right to me.  Y


Names were omitted to protect the innocent.

[rsterne]

Mitch.... with all due respect.... You emailed BNM on May 3, which is 11 business days ago, and you have already had (at least) 2 responses from them.... Do you not think it takes a while to figure out what the problem is with a product they have sold many of, with apparently very few complaints?.... Do you not think it would be helpful to them to have your breech in hand to determine what your problem is?.... Maybe they are reading this thread, maybe not.... Maybe they are trying to figure out what happened, and how many breeches are affected, and then figuring out what to do about it.... Worst case, maybe this affects every breech they have sold, and correcting the problem will drive them out of the business, or bankrupt them (not your problem, but a valid business consideration)....

I'm not making excuses for BNM.... but ask yourself how long it might take FX, or Crosman, to determine what is wrong and what to do about it when a "new" (to them) problem occurs.... Then consider the difference between a small company (1 or 2 people), doing this as an income supplement, to a big company where this is their main product, and they have a whole staff whose job is customer service.... I would be shocked if BNM tell you "it's your problem, go away".... but until they do, as I said before, you need to be patient, IMO.... I suspect that now this problem has come to light on the GTA, you will get assistance from the management, rather than a hassle.... provided you are patient, polite and understanding.... I've seen it before, and have come to expect it as the norm for the excellent staff here.... They have our backs when we have legitimate complaints.... but they won't go off half cocked, nor will they be pushed around.... and they have rules we all agreed to they need to enforce....

being volunteer staff.... you can hardly blame them for that....

Bob

[Privateer]

Thanks for the kind words Bob.
Yes it is tough to remind people from time to time about the rules. I have my issues with a different Company, stated why, and no longer do business with them. But I don't continue the rant. It's over.
There are Rules violations posted in this thread that have been allowed to slip by. Yet when We ask everyone to calm down a bit? We are the bad Guys. We TRY to keep the peace according to the Rules We ALL agreed to.
Like Bob stated, I have no Dog in this fight as I don't have the BNM breech. May never have one.

[Mudbugmitch]

Thats a lot of maybe's BOB. I am only concerned about one. Mine.
I agreed to send them the breech if they do what they said. I still will, still waiting. Ball's in their court.
11 business days seems sufficient to me, they got my money in seconds.


But I will stop my Rant, to ease the tension.
I am gonna sit here and play mushroom and see how this plays out.
Patience is not a virtue of mine.
Good luck to everyone concerned.

Mitch

[ACZan]

Uncle Paulie,

A leaky transfer port assembly is one thing.  Blocking/obstructing the port with a pellet is another.

Everyone,

As an Information Technology Professional in my primary profession, it is very easy to send a blanket email to a distribution list or email addresses, copied and pasted into the TO field.  A courteously way to deal with it is to inform your customers 'we are continuing to investigate the issue, and thank you for your patience'.  A couple of business days is acceptable for any size company.  A week or two without any response is not for any company.  Now, if the company's email system goes down that is another thing.  There are always workarounds for that that.  Use another email address of another system to get out the message, many small businesses do it all the time.

So, stating 'I won't do business with this company any more.' is bashing?

[Sfttailrdr46]

Thats a lot of maybe's BOB. I am only concerned about one. Mine.
I agreed to send them the breech if they do what they said. I still will, still waiting. Ball's in their court.
11 business days seems sufficient to me, they got my money in seconds.


But I will stop my Rant, to ease the tension.
I am gonna sit here and play mushroom and see how this plays out.
Patience is not a virtue of mine.
Good luck to everyone concerned.

Mitch

Mitch,

I have been off the grid for a few days and have missed much of the recent posts on this thread. That being said I will suggest that since you have decided to dial it down a couple notches and allow the situation to be addressed please allow me to make a few suggestions for gonig forward.

1) When you have a problem with a vendor or seller please post on the buyers & sellers gate.
2) Focus on your issue with the product or vendor.
3) Stick to the facts even though it may be difficult at the time.
4) Please reread the forum rules

[uncle paulie]

Chris,  I would think that the pellet blocking the transfer port would cause the volume of air trying to escape to simply bleed at a reduced rate around the projectile until the volume is exhausted. The projectile(as we all know) does not actually seal  the bore due to its reduced circumference.  Perhaps you would be kind enough to detail a scenario where there would be a potentially dangerous safety issue.

pv