BNM Bolt Probe Problems?

[ACZan]

Unfortunately, I don't have spare parts to do the checking or can have a rifle disassembled for an extended period of time to correct someone else's bad work.

This is what happens when these guys turn out junk like this.  The mod projects get out of hand.

[Mudbugmitch]

Another member here has communicated with Sergio. He said he was busy trying to catch up.

[ACZan]

That doesn't excuse him from not doing us the courtesy of giving us a short status.  It can even be an incomplete sentence for all I care.  It has been last week, since I requested an update.  I give a business two business days to get back to me.  A week has passed from their last correspondence.  Very bad communication.  There is a trend here, and I have seen it in some of the other GTA forum topics regarding this.

I would like to hear from them what is specifically the issue.  Confirmation from them that they know what is going on would be nice.

[Mudbugmitch]

I sent another email to hm today, asking for an update. NOTHING. Doesn't make sense to me. If you are that busy, hire someone to handle this kind of stuff. Keep your customers happy, they will stay customers.

[ACZan]

Ground Control to Major Sergio.  Are you there?

Pecor, I think we completely lost communications.

[pecor]

Take your protein pills and put your Helmets on Men 
Ground Control to Sergio ---  GPS coordinates are Entered! You Will self-de·struct !!  All systems are Go (ten, nine, eight, seven, six) Ignition Check Complete! Commencing countdown Engines on (five, four, three)  May God's love be with you Sergio, Plant earth is Blue and theirs nothing you can do   

[ACZan]

You're busting me up, Pecor!  Very funny!

[pecor]

Well I hope for all of you, That by not having any Contact,  Means He's working on it, Or something to that effect, To resolve the problem! If you don't here from him soon by next week , I would start Talking to PayPal and {ALL other Airguns forums} About this Problem Vendor, And include a link to this thread with the photos that show the problem does exists. I even wonder if this BNM company is even legitimate?? Meaning registered with the state of NY and paying Taxes and such ??  {If I have time} tomorrow I will do some poking around. If not over the weekend   The state of NY could be Very Interested in his little side adventure if Not.   

[Mudbugmitch]

I am not a vengeful person. I just want the breech that I have paid for. A working one. I don't intend on bashing him on his product, **** happens, mistakes are made. The problem I do have with this company is the lack of communication. I expect a reply to my emails, it only takes a minute. I gave them a week and still no reply. Not happy.

[pecor]

Mudbug,  Vengeful and Bashing???  It's all about being {Informed}  Bad Service and a Poorly made products} This is Not BNM's first Rodeo! Or customer complaint!!!  It's well Documented on the Airgun forums,  And Yep we have tried to lighten up the tension here with some Jokes, And actually had a Laugh or two. {Your Quote:}{ I gave them a week and still no reply} Well Sir I had waited 3 weeks and never received a reply!!??  Until I Filed a PayPal claim, Then BAM in less than 18 hrs. I received an email that my order was shipped ?     When I received my order My parts were not properly machined or finished and looked like shop set-up parts!! that had been laying around a year, Not even close to being Exceptable. Went thru PayPal again they sided with me after I submited photo's, I was reimbursed including return shipping. I sent their Junk back. Strenth is in Numbers like it or not   Now when I even hear the mention of BNM I warn other's. Just like I did in this thread, #13'th post down -- https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=143443.msg1453987#msg1453987

[Mudbugmitch]

Pecor, I pointed out no one. I merely said that I would not do that. We both have a problem with them. You deal with them your way and I will do the same.
I am starting a complaint with PayPal today. I wish all of us the results we need.

Mitch

[dan_house]

I can tell from experience, on both sides of soemthign like this, that hiring aperson to reply to emails doenst save you any time. You have to show them how to find the email, then have to teach them what to say, have to trust them to say, and ansser the new hire's questions whne they get a mail they dont know anything about.

And the act of hiring some one takes time, they have to be traineda nd you have to pay them, and possibley benefits. Likley an expense they cant bear. Yea it aonly takes a minute to reply, to one email. I get anywhere from 150 to 500 a day..... that have to be sorted, deleted then dealt with. 

Defintley NOT defending them but an extra body can be more hinderance than help. IMO the issues with this vendor are deeper than just not responding to email....

[Kmaz]

Clearly there is an issue here that bnm needs to address. But I believe their biggest issue stems from offering too much customization.you gotta go with the numbers.... forget all those colors. (Black only)Forget left handed breeches. Right side , and rear bolt only.  Dovetail or piccatinney. One could even argue to just get rid of side bolt. Most people who r getting these just want a repeater option. I didn't want or need all those choices. Maybe others feel differently. BUT... none of this matters if the pellet can't be made to clear the port %100.
Kris

[ACZan]

Mitch,

Reporting problems and file complaints up to and including litigation is not necessarily being vengeful even though it sounds like it.  It is doing the right thing.  I believe Pecor has had a bit more experience and insight with BNM than we might have.  With my military and law enforcement affiliations, I am bound to report suspicious activities.  Then, it is up to the investigating body to make a determination.  "See something, say something."  Some of you current military folks might know about what I am saying.

Dan House,

Yes, it unfortunately takes a lot these days for employees, and even business owners, to take initiative, think through a problem and have good integrity.  I see it deteriorate everyday.  Very, very sad.

Kmaz,

I agree on the color options, way too many.  Also, I have seen better finish work than the breech I have.

Pecor,

When the communication stops, I pretty much expect the business relationship is over.  I won't deal with them again after the issue is resolved no matter how it is resolved.  This is definitely not my first rodeo.  I have gone as far as communicating with Jeff Bezos of Amazon to deal with a crook of a merchant.  It looked to be a huge foreign internal Microsoft software pirating scheme, from what I gathered on the evidence I presented to Amazon and Microsoft.

I would like to hopefully see this topic go back to identifying what is good and what is bad with the breeches.  We still need to fix these problems if some of us are going to be stuck with them.  Then we can start a remediation topic.  Maybe with mechanical drawings and good machinist to help.  I will be more than happy to share my drawings.  Maybe Imadunatic might be able to help too if he hasn't already with those really nice drawings he posted.

[Mudbugmitch]

All I want is the properly working breech that I have paid for. I don't care how he runs his business.  I know that others have had luck with him in the past, and I am happy for them. Others have accepted his products, some have modded his products themselves. I will not. I paid for that service and I intend to get it.
Some may feel that he or others are monitoring this forum and possibly giving us a hard time. Maybe so, but why hide ?
What have I done ? I paid him April 15, 2018 in advance for his services, waited, emailed him for a comfirmation, no reply, waited, emailed him again and again, waited,  still nothing. Then I get a tracking number. Product arrives, HAPPY HAPPY JOY JOY  I installed it to find that I have lost velocity. I get on this forum and find others are having the same problem. I emailed him, got a response of "We're investigating that". I send pictures and ask what is happening. Response..you might need a new pin. Send product back. I balked about having to pay shipping. He says keep it until new one comes with return postage sticker. Yep, still waiting for that. No response to anymore of my emails. He has stopped communicating.
I am in the right here. I have been wronged.

[imadunatic]

The mods I made would be simple for BNM to employ, the issue would be that the tolerances we're dealing with from Crosman, along with general machining tolerances from BNM would mean that the end user would need to "touch and tickle" the parts so they fit exactly right (I even left "fit stock" on mine so I could get that last .001 or .002 with sandpaper in the lathe).

This to me is beyond the basic tuners and gets into the realm of a professional tuner or machinist. I'm completely happy with my BNM setup now, however, using my "rule of $25" (pay myself $25 an hour for something I don't really want to do) means that I put another $50 into this bringing the total price to almost $300 for this upgrade alone (I bought the shrouded barrel, and do love it).

I think the real issue is selling this as a plug and play option. I feel for you guys that can get no response, sort of like emailing MRODAIR, I found it to be just as effective to write down on a piece of paper what I was going to say, wad it up and throw it at a wall. It would at least bounce back at me giving the feeling of getting some sort of response.

Kevin

[Mudbugmitch]

As I have said, I paid him to do this service. I am not going to mod his bolt or breech, even if I could. He offers this as a fit on , ready to go unit, not a "touch and tickle" piece. I have done many mods to my guns. If I had had it for years and just now discovered it wasn't right, that would be on me. My first email went out the day I recieved it and found it to be a problem. Obviously he has been aware of this problem for awhile, by reading some older posts.

He has stopped communicating. Not me.

All I want is the working breech which I contracted from him and that I have already paid for.


What say you, BOB ? You put this thread up.

[ACZan]

There is nothing wrong with both approaches.  I, as well as, Mitch would just prefer to get what we pay for and move on to finish our mod projects.

However, there are folks who's principles runs deeper and want to prevent others from suffering the same situation.  Both perspectives have to be respected.  I tend to lean towards preventing others from dealing with the same problems.  All of us do have to 'pick and choose our battles' as the old idiom goes.  I do appreciate the effort Pecor has tried to make to prevent others from experiencing the same problems.  As I said a number of posts back, history is unfortunately repeating itself with these guys. 

The most important question is why, why the persistence of bad product.  BNW Custom has completely disregarded any of the constructive feedback Pecor has provided to them years ago, considering he is a Subject Matter Expert in machining.  We may never get an answer, and it is in everyone's best interest to not do business with the company under this trend of circumstances.

[Rocker1]

 Choose your words wisely gentlemen we do have a rules about bashing.
13- Personal attacks on individual airgunners, dealers, tuners or other airgun forums are strictly forbidden. If you have issues with them, then they should be addressed one on one.  Do not create a “war zone” on your forum. Take your issues up directly with them and do not launder them here on the GTA forums.   David

[pecor]

Hello David, No war zone here?? No Name calling? Maybe some bickering on how to handle this problem? And some Jokes to lighten up the atmosphere   But I'm sure this will work itself out as most everyone has now filed a Dispute with PayPal.  I am retired on a fixed income, I don't have money to throw away on Sub-Par non Quality parts that caused me a lose of 90 fps with my gun, As others have also experienced !  They would not communicate with me by phone or Email!  Now I did settle my dispute by using PayPal claims and plenty of photo's, They then settled on my side! And I returned the faulty breech back to them! And my money was returned.  Now I Might Add That Was Over a Year Ago! BNM has {Yet To fix the Problem} with their Product, You cannot seat a pellet in the middle of the barrel port!  This is even agreed upon by are own Mr. rsterne.   Nor will they Communicate with any of their costumers?? Bye phone or E-Mail.  Instead They have continued to market and sell a flawed design to this Day. David In essence they are lining their pockets $$ with money from our GTA Members!! I can't find anywhere that they are a Forum Sponsor? Or ever have been?, Nor can I find that they have made any Raffle donations to help promote or raise money for this site?? Now this breech can be made to work If you have a Lathe and Mill, But I would guess 85% or More of our members do Not have one. I Don't own one and most people don't..  If it could be fixed with a Dremel tool  that would be different story, But It Can't.  This breech is being sold as Plug and Play, It is not sold as a Breech Kit that requires machining!  {I Truly Believe in my Heart That {Every Member} has the right to know before they plop down $ 200+ of hard earned money, Right now you will clearly receive a part that is  Defective.}  I urge you to keep this thread Open, To allow members to report if a fix or design change Has Been Implemented or Not?  If Not I would Urge You to post a {BNM Breech Warning sticky} on the top of the PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates. To Protect our members and future members.  Thank You for your time, I hope you will give this some thought. Have a good evening!   Jay