.20 Valuemax opinion

[Cliff H]

  I know im out of the loop on these but this is my first Webley/Hatsan.  Scored it off of Ebay new in the unopened box for $121 shipped.  I initially offered $110 and shipping was $11 so $121 total. After i opened it there was some small amounts of surface rust on the underside of the barrel. The guy refunded me $21 back. So now im only out $100. I just have to say this rebranded little rifle seems to be a winner in my book.  Definitely not a big fan of the chintzy stock although i kinda like the green finish.  Didnt like it at first but its growing on me.  Anyway initial impressions where that this was a very loud and twangy but the quality of all the metal and bluing seems twell done.  Took it out of the stock and wiped off the excess grease and cleaned the barrel with googone and some weed eater string and ive only put about 25 or so JSB EXACTS through it and "dang" the sight were 2-3 clicks high in elevation from hitting my 5 target small resetting steel airgun target thats about 30 yards out my back door.  I hit the four lower 2” round plates with just six shots.  Went three for three then took 3 shoots to hit the last one.  Needless to say after hitting the first three i was holding the gun sidways going "dang"!  It also definitely smacks those little spinners with some authority compared to the, 9.8 winchester domes in .177 out of my, Gamo ACCU that i that i normally shoot.  This is also with the factory stiff trigger.  This was yesterday.  Today i stuffed a couple cut up tshirts into the rear stock, packed them in there as tight as i could with a long 3/8 drive ratchet extension. This helped tremendously. Went to Home depot and picked up a longer trigger screw ,small allen head 3m x 10mm.  Played with this screw until i got about half the creep out of the second stage. Its still pretty strong on the pull though. Im going to break the trigger down and polish all surfaces and i bet this thing will get smooth and lighten up considerably.  Im super stoked about this rifle.  I know im late to the party on this rifle but better late then never!

[Cliff H]

  Would like to add that I have some left over Brownells accuglass bedding compound and I'm going to do some mild bedding and i think ill put some reinforcing plates, out of some 16gauge sheet metal, on the inside parts of the stock forward of the stock screws.  i think this will really solidify the stock a little more.  it still is making some noise up front.

[Frank]

It's a fine rifle. Preforms where it needs to and that is in accuracy. Drawbacks are the stock, kind of cheap and main complaint. Mine shoots all five pellets that PA has in .20 very well, thanks for that. Trigger on mine is fine for me and don't find it hard to pull at all. I checked on a wood stock from Hatsan , not ready for that at $35.
With all you are doing to yours I am sure you are going to end up with something you will really like to shoot .
Never to late !!

[SteveP-52]

It will definitely benefit from at least a lube tune as on the the 2 I've taken apart, one was pretty much dry and the other, I couldn't tell exactly what the black stuff was they used.
You might also take a quick look at the barrel crown as both of the above benefitted from a little touch up and the one I rebuilt for gendoc flat needed to be.

They aren't higher quality rifles, but for $100, mine are very accurate shooters with the few .20 cal pellets you can still get and I don't regret buying any of mine.

[19Sheridan57]

   I bought one several years ago , when they first became hard to find. I think I paid about $135 delivered. I wanted to try a .20 break barrel, since I own a stable full of Sheridans & lots of .20 ammo.  The trigger had a spot of roughness that made it hard to shoot. I had heard that these triggers were hard to take apart & reassemble, but I was lucky. I could see the problem & repaired it while it was assembled. I tried the longer screw after that but couldn't tell much difference. Be careful with that because you can get it to where it won't cock, or stay cocked & it fires .  The forearm broke within months & I put a Striker stock on it. Had some problems with screws coming loose & fixed that. After some good oil & breaking it in, the trigger is now much better. I put a nice scope on it & am happy with it, now. Shoots around 800fps.

[REACTOR - NIN]

Good deal ! Cliff. Hope she is a good shooter for you. The Hats ans have better quality product material ,are accurate and definitely more  powerful. Probably , with the Webley brand are better with the quality control issues.  Good luck !

[Big Rick]

I love mine. Very accurate though it is as you say, twangy. The stock is very so so and at some point mine will get a wood Striker stock. I paid $99 for it new making it the cheapest .20 I`ve ever bought! I shoot it about once a week just because I like it. No doubt a tune is in order but I have never tuned a gun and don`t want to experiment on this one. Once yours gets broken in I`m sure you will like it better than you do now.

[mentolio]

I've had mine for awhile now, and still love it. I've had it apart multiple times for my post "Aftermarket seal odyssey," in which I tried several different seals. That poor gun has been abused like no other gun I own, but it's still kicking! The last time I took it apart, I buttoned the piston and installed everything in a Hatsan 1000S synthetic stock. It ain't pretty, but it seems sturdier than the original green stock, which I really liked. It hasn't gotten as much attention these last few months as it is used to, but I still pull it out and sling lead from time to time. It's very accurate, very powerful, and in spite of being properly lubed/etc, is still a bit harsh. All this aside, it still stacks Benji cylinders at twenty yards, and hits the low 800s with H&Ns.

[Cliff H]

I tried the longer screw after that but couldn't tell much difference.

I was able to get a lot of the creep out of mine. It felt like it was pulling forever in the second stage. Plus its got to be around a 8 pound pull.  I did the ole bump test with the stock on the floor after getting the second stage creep where I was comfortable with it.

It will definitely benefit from at least a lube tune as on the the 2 I've taken apart, one was pretty much dry and the other, I couldn't tell exactly what the black stuff was they used.
You might also take a quick look at the barrel crown as both of the above benefitted from a little touch up and the one I rebuilt for gendoc flat needed to be.

They aren't higher quality rifles, but for $100, mine are very accurate shooters with the few .20 cal pellets you can still get and I don't regret buying any of mine.

Thanks for the heads up! I completely forgot to check the crown on this. I guess its because this thing is shooting dead nutz on at 30 yards! lol.  I wouldn't compare the quality to my Beeman R1 but this thing minus the stock is built every bit if not better then any Crosman or Gamo break barrel I've had my hands on. Maybe I should keep my mouth shut until i get to the inside of this one.

I've had mine for awhile now, and still love it. I've had it apart multiple times for my post "Aftermarket seal odyssey," in which I tried several different seals. That poor gun has been abused like no other gun I own, but it's still kicking! The last time I took it apart, I buttoned the piston and installed everything in a Hatsan 1000S synthetic stock. It ain't pretty, but it seems sturdier than the original green stock, which I really liked. It hasn't gotten as much attention these last few months as it is used to, but I still pull it out and sling lead from time to time. It's very accurate, very powerful, and in spite of being properly lubed/etc, is still a bit harsh. All this aside, it still stacks Benji cylinders at twenty yards, and hits the low 800s with H&Ns.

  I'll search for your "Aftermarket Seal Odyssey" Im super interested it what all this little beast could benefit from, parts replacing and tune wise.  Is buttoning the piston really worth doing. Ive always been interested in this mod. It seems like everyone used different materials and technique. Ive been really interested in putting a Webley Spector Tactical stock on this bad boy. Maybe shortening the barrel and getting some sort of silencer to use off another Hatsan. Try to quiet it down some and also to add to the cool factor once i get a Spector stock on it...lol

[mentolio]

When done properly (which I'm not 100% I've done as of yet😉) it seems to quiet down the shot cycle a bit, and definitely gives me peace of mind knowing the piston skirt will not contact the inside of the airtube (no metal to metal contact requires less lube, too!). When done improperly (which I've done Once or twice) the buttons can slow down the piston at the beginning of the shot cycle due to stiction. The air tube (particularly it seems on Hatsans) are tighter in the rear portion of the tube, likely from the holes and slots being stamped out of the tube. I didn't realize that at first, and so had only limited success with buttoning. Once I figured out that I needed to open up the rear portion of the tube with a hone (pretty much From the front of the cocking slot rearward), I saw real progress and a return of lost velocity that couldn't be blamed on a seal. Going forward, I will likely button every springer I rebuild.

[lefteyeshot]

I've got a .20 VMX and a .177 gas ram Striker. They both have the longer trigger screw mod. The stock broke on both. Got to order some wood Striker stocks for them. I had a Springer .177 Striker and a gas ram .25 and sold them. For an economy .20 caliber the VMX is the only deal in town. If caliber is not an issue there are better and nicer looking guns in the same price range as the VMX/Striker/Edge IMO. Haven't heard any complaints about the Edge stock. I wonder if I could get the Edge moon camo stock It looks kinda' cool. Maybe one each, moon and wood. Be cool if they had the skull camo like Krale has.

[SteveP-52]

I have the Harvest Moon camo stock, currently has my Edge .25 Vortex in it. Email Hatsan and see if they sell them, just be ready for it to be pricier than the standard black ones which used to be something like $34.95 plus shipping.

[19Sheridan57]

  All this talk about the VMX is making me want to go shoot mine. I haven't shot it in months ! It is raining now , but I have a good place to shoot, anyway.

[19Sheridan57]

Yep. It still shoots !! I shot about 20 pellets through her & she shot just fine. I walked her back to the stable , afterwards.

[Cliff H]

When done properly (which I'm not 100% I've done as of yet😉) it seems to quiet down the shot cycle a bit, and definitely gives me peace of mind knowing the piston skirt will not contact the inside of the airtube (no metal to metal contact requires less lube, too!). When done improperly (which I've done Once or twice) the buttons can slow down the piston at the beginning of the shot cycle due to stiction. The air tube (particularly it seems on Hatsans) are tighter in the rear portion of the tube, likely from the holes and slots being stamped out of the tube. I didn't realize that at first, and so had only limited success with buttoning. Once I figured out that I needed to open up the rear portion of the tube with a hone (pretty much From the front of the cocking slot rearward), I saw real progress and a return of lost velocity that couldn't be blamed on a seal. Going forward, I will likely button every springer I rebuild.

 I inside Micrometer would be helpful for that I suppose.  I was planning on doing this on other guns of mine but I want to practice on some cheaper platform rifles first.  What do you use for the buttons and how many do you orientate around the piston. Do you put them at the front of the piston and the rear or just the rear or in the middle.  I just want to know all the secrets of the trade. Im sure there tuners here that wont divulge this info,  Im not planning on making a living doing tunes for other people.

I've got a .20 VMX and a .177 gas ram Striker. They both have the longer trigger screw mod. The stock broke on both. Got to order some wood Striker stocks for them. I had a Springer .177 Striker and a gas ram .25 and sold them. For an economy .20 caliber the VMX is the only deal in town. If caliber is not an issue there are better and nicer looking guns in the same price range as the VMX/Striker/Edge IMO. Haven't heard any complaints about the Edge stock. I wonder if I could get the Edge moon camo stock It looks kinda' cool. Maybe one each, moon and wood. Be cool if they had the skull camo like Krale has. 

Im going to reinforce the green Valuemax stock the best I can with epoxy, fiberglass, JB weld, Bondo, pine pitch and anything I have at my disposal....lol.  Only doing it cause I can and that's what I do...make things better,stronger, faster! Eventually I will get a little better stock on this one. Im really leaning to get that Webley Spector Stock if I can get one without buying the whole "dang" gun.  I do like the Edge moon stock.  I was kicking around the idea of maybe getting one in spring version in .25 but the 650 fps that they put out are with a 19gr pellet and that's to light for what I would want it for.

I have the Harvest Moon camo stock, currently has my Edge .25 Vortex in it. Email Hatsan and see if they sell them, just be ready for it to be pricier than the standard black ones which used to be something like $34.95 plus shipping.

How is that .25 Vortex working out for you?  What are you mainly using it for hunting? plinking?  What grain pellets are you using? And chrony numbers?  Im seeing a lot of Hatsan Referbs with the Vortex rams available.  I have been reading that they have problems loosing there pressure.  I havnt read enough to know if this was a issue thats mostly old now and they have resolve these issues or its still a problem. Just funny how they have almost every model in Vortex available in the refurbished list of guns on their website.  To me that doesn't look good.

  All this talk about the VMX is making me want to go shoot mine. I haven't shot it in months ! It is raining now , but I have a good place to shoot, anyway.

  I loaned my only Sheridan "1969 rocker" to my brother, and I think he has claimed full ownership of it now. That was the only .20 cal in my airgun arsenal.  Well that was 3 years ago.  I love the round, so when I saw someone make that post in the Bargain gate about the .20 Webley Valuemax on Ebay, I did a little reading in here with the search and found so many post about what a deal these rifles are for the money. I couldn't pass it up. Heck I don't think you can touch a decent rocker Sheridan for less then $250 anymore. Plus I like to shoot and pumpin those things 5-8 times every shot doesn't do my arms and shoulder much good anymore.  Im more of a underlever guy and Im sure PCP are the @$%^ but im not putting that kind of money out for that. I will be content with spring guns the rest of my life. *(&^ whose to say I wont be the go to tuner here in the next 10 years. I do a lot of shade tree Gunsmithing on my powder burners and theres not much I cant do. Ive built a few custom bolt actions, cut and crown work, rebarreling actions, trigger jobs, stock work, I have access to a mill and lathe but I need to get one of my own I just don't have the space at the moment. Maybe a smaller Hobbie mill/lathe would work. I really need to look into that. Wow this reply just got a little off subject.

[Cliff H]

Yep. It still shoots !! I shot about 20 pellets through her & she shot just fine. I walked her back to the stable , afterwards.

  Got to stretch her legs out every now and then.  Whats the go to meal she likes to eat?

[gendoc]

mine likes the JSB 13.73gr,  stacks them nice @ 20yrds 

[19Sheridan57]

Yep. It still shoots !! I shot about 20 pellets through her & she shot just fine. I walked her back to the stable , afterwards.

  Got to stretch her legs out every now and then.  Whats the go to meal she likes to eat?

Mine eats oats & JSB's, most of the time.

[SteveP-52]

Keep an eye on Amazon, it's where I got my Spector and at the time, it was only a bit over $50. As far as the gas rams, the only trouble I've had with any of mine up to this point was caused by me, a high pressure pcp pump and tinkering with one. Better weather is finally coming to where i live in NY so hopefully, I can get out and do some chrony work to see how sitting all winter may have affected things.
I have the .25 in both gas ram and spring versions and last I chronied them, the Vortex was 565 with JSB 25.39's and the springer was 572 with the same pellet. Most of my shooting is inside 30 yards so I can speak for anything past that, but the Vortex with an H&N Crow Magnum pellet and what I've always considered a lucky headshot, took a racoon at a little over 20 yards and I've used both for plinking and squirrels when they get out of hand (my father feeds them and expects to see a couple in the yard...lol).
The Vortex in Harvest Moon camo is above, here's the springer in a slightly customized Spector stock I jokingly call the SpecEdge....