Gamo Urban and DonnyFL Sumo

[Rat Sniper (AKA: PaulT58)]

Of those who have done the full shroud, or have removed the pickle, can you get me a measurement of the machined end of the barrel where the pickle sits?

I have a friend who will machine a ½-20UNF Adapter that will fit the end of the Urban Barrel.  He just needs that crucial measurement.  If anyone is interested in one of these, please let me know and I will get you in contact with Stefan.  He told me they would cost approximately $30 shipped to the US.  These are top quality steel parts that have a professional blued finish.  They look like they should be on these barrels!  If you are interested, PM me and I'll pass along Stefan's contact info.  Thanks...

[thedude]

Yeah... that really changes the look.

That melon sized stock ldc is actually growing on me.

Yeah I wasn't really into the big ldc when I first saw it, but seeing the pictures of it without one just doesnt look right.

[KnifeMaker]

I've read here, from one of modding members, that you would need to destroy the stock ldc to remove it.

In one of my recent British AG mag, the Urban/Phox was advertised with a removable, skinnier shroud. This may be the future, updated version which may eventually come across the pond to us.

Actually I think they started with that, and were running into legal trouble with the removable moderator. I was just reading somewhere that they had to prove that the LDC couldn't be removed without being destroyed and they had to show testing that it couldn't handle the pressure of a 22 cartridge or the ATF would consider the moderator itself a firearm.

There is no such Law or Regulation at the ATF. It is no more than an  Urban myth. Read the actual law. it is posted in the stickies at Talon Airgun Forum. It can also be found by googling the laws themselves at Firearm laws and regulations. GOV  Knowledge is your friend. Giving advice on the laws, with no actual knowledge of them is bad for us all.

Air Gun Mods are not reged by the Fed's. Further, the actual law is that if it will reduce the DB by one, regardless of whether it is destroyed with that one round, it is illegal. (WHEN Mounted on a Powder Burner).

An AirGun Moderator, does not become illegal until mounted on a firearm. Period. And exactly why they have different threads on AG than on PB's.

If this were not the case, Rocker!, Neil Clague, Donny FL, and a host of others, (Including the shroud on our beloved Marauder), would not be able to make and sell them made for Air Gun Use only.

Their work and products are legal in all States that allow mods on Airguns. Period! 

If modified for or with the intention of mounting on a firearm, they then become illegal.

This myth has been mostly spread in the past by Dr. Beeman, and more recently by AOA. Mostly for monetary purposes I suspect in the laters case.

 What better way too up sell an airgun so equipped, each and every time a different model is purchased from them, rather than the customer being able to change them between their different AirGuns. GRRRRR!!! 

(If this were not the case, a potato, pillow, lawn more muffler,and many other products/ Items and their ownership  would be controlled by the ATF)

Knife   

[thedude]

I didn't say it was illegal to have an LDC for an airgun. But for a company the size of Gamo, they had some legal concerns. If someone modifies their LDC to fit a powder burner. Or makes an adapter, Or forget the threads, just holds it in front of the gun. It could reduce the sound by one db and be illegal. And even a minor loss in court could cost a big company a ton of money.

True governments leave most of us alone because we're generally within the law and it would be on them to prove what we were or weren't going to do with them and after a tons of legal proceedings we would basically get a slap on the wrist. Not worth the effort.

[KnifeMaker]

I didn't say it was illegal to have an LDC for an airgun. But for a company the size of Gamo, they had some legal concerns. If someone modifies their LDC to fit a powder burner. Or makes an adapter, Or forget the threads, just holds it in front of the gun. It could reduce the sound by one db and be illegal. And even a minor loss in court could cost a big company a ton of money.

True governments leave most of us alone because we're generally within the law and it would be on them to prove what we were or weren't going to do with them and after a tons of legal proceedings we would basically get a slap on the wrist. Not worth the effort.

Apparently you have neither read, not understood the law.  Only the person doing this would have broken the law. Simple really.

Will we not hold potato farmers for producing something which when held to the muzzle of a .22 lr, will reduce the report more than 1 db. Como on man.  Use a little brain grease here and think about what you are saying.

Will Briggs and Stratton be hauled into court because some dimwit held a lawn mower muffler in front of barrel and pulled the trigger? GEESH!!!

Do we have to outlaw bread loafes, coke bottles, pillows, the list is endless.

The law dips deeply into intent. It was the actual law breaker that had the intent, then followed thru and committed the offence.

The manufacturer cannot be charged with breaking a law as there is no such law. They cannot be charged with breaking a Reg,  as there is no such Reg.  I really can't figure out a way to explain it any better to you. No law is being broken by the manufacture, and therefore cannot be charged.

Same reason the Supreme Court has ruled that a firearms manufacturer cannot be charged for what a criminal does with one of their legal products. Same, Same.

The Law may very well be different in the U.K. where the AG is manufactured, or in Spain, where the company is owned. Not here in the U.S.

Knife

[KnifeMaker]

I know you are wondering just why I am taking you on on this matter.

Think about this for a moment.  In making yourself a self appointed attorney here, you are threatening the industry as a whole.

Not directly, but by potentially steering away potential customers of many, many Air Gun Manufacturers who do have shrounds and ldc's on their products.

Listing a few are Crosman, Daystate, Fx. Air Force, Brocock, Ed Gun, Crickett, Evanix, HW, yes, Gamo BSA, Air ARms, American Air Arms, War, RAW. I could type all night.

More importantly, hyperbole threatens any and all of these makers of ldc equipped airguns, both here and abroad, by scaring their customers who don't really know what to think when someone start this type of thread.
It is highly irresponsible.

It happens once or twice a year, every year, to the point we are all sick of it!.
Someone with NO knowledge of the actual laws or reg's comes on here or another forum, and it starts all over again. 
I'll tell ya. It gets so darned old! This and we had better stop shooting Big Bores or the fed's will outlaw airguns dribble. GRRRRRR!!

This thread was started about a DonnyFl Sumo LDC. You have now turned it into a "c" waving contest, yet have no skin in the game. 

Please Stop it! Read The darned Laws and Reg's. I told you where to go to read it. GRRRRRR!!!

[thedude]

Who am I scaring up? I clearly said that us regular people don't have to worry about it. And the only people that you have to worry about it are big enough companies that already have teams of lawyers who aren't scared about what some guy on the internet thinks.

Somebody asked if they were going to sell the version of the urban with the removable threaded LDC. And I pointed out that Gamo said they weren't going to because gamo had legal concerns. 

It's Gamos decision, for this particular product to make it the way that they do.

If you want to thread about regulations go start one.

[jarmstrong]

I've read here, from one of modding members, that you would need to destroy the stock ldc to remove it.

In one of my recent British AG mag, the Urban/Phox was advertised with a removable, skinnier shroud. This may be the future, updated version which may eventually come across the pond to us.

Actually I think they started with that, and were running into legal trouble with the removable moderator. I was just reading somewhere that they had to prove that the LDC couldn't be removed without being destroyed and they had to show testing that it couldn't handle the pressure of a 22 cartridge or the ATF would consider the moderator itself a firearm.

"I was reading somewhere"
Yup , you need a source to reference or it is just bla bla bla
Question, does BSA offer removable LDC? and do they not own Gamo

[KnifeMaker]

Gamo owns them. Has for decades now. 

Knife

[KnifeMaker]

Who am I scaring up? I clearly said that us regular people don't have to worry about it. And the only people that you have to worry about it are big enough companies that already have teams of lawyers who aren't scared about what some guy on the internet thinks.

Somebody asked if they were going to sell the version of the urban with the removable threaded LDC. And I pointed out that Gamo said they weren't going to because gamo had legal concerns. 

It's Gamos decision, for this particular product to make it the way that they do.

If you want to thread about regulations go start one.

The people you can scare with such dribble, are the future customers that don't know any better. "and there are even seasoned Airgunners that don't know.  It has been settled here on the GTA. I would hate to see misinformation raising its ugly head again. It hurts AirGunning, and it hurts the GTA.

If Gamo actually put this out there, please post it. Otherwise, it's just more of the same o'l, Same o'l. Conjecture or fact?

If it is fact, good on you! Please link it and I will tank you for it. .  If your just making it up to sound important, that is another matter.

Can we now get back on topic of the DonnyFl products? Please!!!

Knife