Question about 12 fpe pcp rifles

[archellas]

So maybe there is some sense to this. 

For about 90% of all the backyard/practice shooting I will do on a nearly daily basis, 8gr. at +800fps will cover it easily.  Target holes will still cluster nicely, paintballs will splatter, spinners will spin (although won't spin as many times), pest birds will die, and  beer bottle caps will "zing" off into the distance.

I would NOT want every PCP to be a 12 foot pound .177...I'd not want every PCP to be a +50 foot pound hammer....to each it's own use, but for quiet/long shot count use in back yard situations, a 12 foot pound .22 makes sense to me.

+1

[JoeKool]

12 fpe, 16fpe, 20fpe, 25fpe, 30fpe and up all can be useful in specific applications.  One has to evaluate what type of energy will be required for a given task and use the appropriate powered air rifle.  Airgunning can be very enjoyable at all power levels if this theory is applied.  This being said, accuracy is always king 👑!

[Ribbonstone]

Different tools..different uses.  Some times you need a tack-hammer/some times a 16oz roofing hammer...sometimes a sledge hammer........or sometimes you need a micrometer, and sometimes you need a yard stick.  Why should airguns be any different?

[Gipper]

I find it interesting that alot of people think wanting more power is strictly an American thing. I wonder how many or our British brothers would opt for more if it was easily/inexpensive to obtain?

[archellas]

I find it interesting that alot of people think wanting more power is strictly an American thing. I wonder how many or our British brothers would opt for more if it was easily/inexpensive to obtain?

Actually a lot of PCP rifles made in the Uk or Europe are less expensive than what we pay for them here, and high power ones don't cost more, a permit is obtainable (yes, there are some rules to follow - us Illinoians also have to have a firearm owner ID for .22 airguns). So there are easily obtainable, and no more expensive.

But we do things bigger in America! If you drive for twelve hours in Europe, you'd cross at least three countries with different histories and cultures! Drive twelve hours in Texas, and you never leave the state! Being originally from Texas, I assure you things are even BIGGER in Texas! 

Spend some time in Europe (I don't mean visit) and you'll get a better understanding.

To get back on track, different power levels for different needs and uses. Nothing wrong with that. Luckily WE have choices!

Cheers

[Mod90]

I find it interesting that alot of people think wanting more power is strictly an American thing. I wonder how many or our British brothers would opt for more if it was easily/inexpensive to obtain?

True, very true. It's not an American thing, it's a personal preference thing & a what can you legally have thing.




So says the guy with a 40 fpe .177 cal while contemplating filling the reservoir with helium for even more power

[Gipper]

I find it interesting that alot of people think wanting more power is strictly an American thing. I wonder how many or our British brothers would opt for more if it was easily/inexpensive to obtain?

Actually a lot of PCP rifles made in the Uk or Europe are less expensive than what we pay for them here, and high power ones don't cost more, a permit is obtainable (yes, there are some rules to follow - us Illinoians also have to have a firearm owner ID for .22 airguns). So there are easily obtainable, and no more expensive.

But we do things bigger in America! If you drive for twelve hours in Europe, you'd cross at least three countries with different histories and cultures! Drive twelve hours in Texas, and you never leave the state! Being originally from Texas, I assure you things are even BIGGER in Texas! 

Spend some time in Europe (I don't mean visit) and you'll get a better understanding.

To get back on track, different power levels for different needs and uses. Nothing wrong with that. Luckily WE have choices!

Cheers

I too live in Illinois, have driven across Texas both north-south and east-west and lived in Germany between 2003 and 2008.  I can say with certainty that getting high power anything there is not simple or cheap. As far as Illinois goes if it is larger than .177 you only need a FOID card if it exceeds 700fps.  And I also agree that 12fps is plenty for most uses but choices are always great.

Brian

[archellas]

And I also agree that 12fps is plenty for most uses but choices are always great.

Brian

+1

[Hoosier Daddy]

I am a power convert thanks to GTA.
 When I got started I was thinking "Bigger is Better" and fell into the FPS hype on the box being most important of airgun stats. I might still be there if it wasn't for what I have learned here and from my own experiance.
 Then I got my FWB 300S (yes a Springer) and learned there is something truly amazing in watching your pellet fly right to the point you aimed.
In my book accuracy is now king, not power. And it is well under the 12fpe.
 Enter my PCP's I have an Air Arms S400 that is an FAC gun. BUT it is adjustable output by turning a knob... not a gimick, it actually works.

You get about 60-80 shots on low power and 30-40 on high. The low end delivers about 600 fps, the high about 920 fps (.22 cal.)

So with a 15g pellet that is at 12 fpe when set on low power and it is deadly accurate out 30-40 yards while I consistently get over 70 shots.
That is where I use it MOST and it never fails to put a smile on my face.
Now if I were out and a Wood Chuck came into the danger zone, it is a nice feature to turn the knob and lay the smack down on him... 

[FamilyMan811]

For a .177, 12 foot pounds is a pretty good energy level for most folks everyday shooting/practice sessions.

Do believe in power and larger clibers where needed, but when it's not needed it just complicates a practice session with lower shot counts (less time actually shooting), more noise,  a heavier safe backstop.

For the same reasons that a tool box is not full of nothing but hammers, your airgun collection should also be geared to  a wider range of choices.

+1


I too am a fan of accuracy over power however I do keep my .25 Vulcan slinging 34gr JSBs around 865-870 fps for the right jobs as we get a few Coyote,Fox,Coon etc... However as Manny has proven to us all ...accuracy is key and lesser calibers can do the work as well. In closing I'd like to further back the point that power is pointless without precision. My .02

[n2omike]

Then I got my FWB 300S (yes a Springer) and learned there is something truly amazing in watching your pellet fly right to the point you aimed.

Me too!  and it's easier to see a .25 pellet than a .177!  lol   Plus, hearing the THWACK of the big pellet hitting its target is very satisfying.   

No argument that Air Guns are definitely weapons of PRECISION.  Virtually none of them have the power of a lowly .22LR.  If a small animal has either a .177 or .25 pellet go through its brain, it's going to die.  Trading accuracy for power is always a bad deal for air guns.

THAT being said...  Have you ever held a .177 pellet next to a .25?  It's like comparing a .22LR to a 40 S&W!

If there is no trade-off in accuracy...  it's a no-brainer to use the larger caliber for hunting.  They offer far better downrange power/ballistics, and fewer crawl/fly offs.

Good Luck!

[Taso1000]

I guess I would have to classify myself as a frugal air gunner.  I will tend toward the lowest power that will get the job done without waste. 

Most of my shooting is with .177 rifles at varying power levels for the task at hand.  For pesting I will step up a power level.  12 fpe is plenty.  More for heart/lung shots because I want and entry and an exit for more blood loss.  But just enough power to not hurt anything downrange.  Less for brain shots as a pass through isn't necessary. 

I do have a dedicated 50 fpe .25 for raccoons that rip up my roof trying to get into my attic.  I am glad none tried this year.  But the .25 does it eat up air fast!

I've skipped .22 because the .177's will do 98% of what I need.  The .25 will dispatch a raccoon and when I want to have fun and authoritatively smack targets!

I took a heart/lung shot at a squirrel once with my 24 fpe .25 XS28 and it instantaneously devastated the squirrel.  He fell out of the tree and was dead before he hit the ground!  A .177 will do the job but a bowling ball is in a different league!  lol  I still prefer to use the .177 for pretty much everything.

Taso

[Hoosier Daddy]

Taso, your reasoning on a .22 is why my only .20's are vintage Sheridans.
But I also have a fondness for an HW in .20.... maybe someday.

[Hoosier Daddy]

GOD!!!
 I need a chrony!!!

[Ribbonstone]

They truth of most MSP's, even resealed healhty Sheridans is that they can manage 12-12.6 foot pounds with a typical 7 pump fill.  The "steroid" versions can manage more energy for more  pumps.

I grew up with shots rifles (along with Benjamin 312's and 342's...the standard verions...and really don;t see  aperoblem shooting small game (birds-tree squirrel-to rabbits) with that power level inside of 40 yards...which is a "far piece" for an open sight airgun and prerty well requires "young eyes".

Rather than thinking that PCP power plant makes a difference (it doesn't), a stable shooting 12 foot pounds will do all the things that a Sheridan "C" can do...do them better ecause the ease of scope mounting...and kill the same critters your grandfathers/fathers killed/ate.

[Wildcatter]

My hunting is done with .25 cal Air Force Talon with modified valve that puts out up to 71 foot pounds with the Eun Jinn 44 grain pellet.  I normally use the JSB 33.95 King Heavies and achieve about 61 foot pounds of energy.  I hunt ground squirrel, rabbit, pigeon, dove out to 100+ yards.  With the .25 I get more power out to the target, and much more lethality.  Shooting a 12 fpe .177 hunting in real world conditions out to 50 yards is chancy at best.  If you're head shotting at 50 yards every time with a .177, then you know your rifle and windage adjustments much better then I.  Occasionally a pellet drifts up, down, left OR right for any number of reasons and at distance, with a .177 at 12 fpe, your quarry will run off.  I have seen ground squirrels with multiple .30 rounds taken in the body run to a hole. 

With the larger, heavier pellets, more of the actual energy is carried out to distance and the wound channel and initial impact much deadlier.

Don't get me wrong, I've seen plenty of videos of those European guys and their 12 fpe rifles at 10 yards in a blind take squirrels off a feeder at 10-15 yards, or take pigeons out of a tree at 20 yards and rabbits out to 30-40, but I don't see 12 fpe guns taking down squirrels or rabbits at 70+ yards, 80+ yards or in much wind. 

I've always been interested in the discussion of which caliber is better, but for hunting or pesting, bigger is ALWAYS better, pending shooting conditions and laws, of course...

[Ribbonstone]

Yep...have a few +50 foot pound PCPs in various calibers.  Wonderful airguns for when the cirtters are big or the critters are far way.


Not so wonderful when the targets are close or the targets are small.  Will certainly do the job, but wont do the job any better than that 12 foot pound .177 that gives 4-5X the shot count.

[gonzav]

Just for comparison. A .22 long rifle standard velocity 40 grain is +100 FPE. A .22 CB long or short (Cap and Ball - no gun powder) 29 grain is 32 FPE. If I wanted more power, I would just use a rimfire as it is more economical. CBs are very quiet in a long barrel. Otherwise, 12 FPE PCP has its place for plinking, target shooting and competition with high shot count and accuracy.

[Taso1000]

I forgot to clarify in my reply above that I've never shot over 20 yards.  I only pest in my back yard and stalk as close as I can.

So that will explain why .177 is the most useful to me in my situation.

If I had to shoot longer ranges I would have to retest for the best setup.  So in that situation, the .177 would most likely get replaced with a .22.

.177 does not perform better than the larger calibers at longer ranges.  There are some recent developments with slug shooting .17 caliber rifles that I'm very excited to see how they perform and if they can be replicated economically.  My fingers are crossed!

Thank you,

Taso

[Ribbonstone]

Lets put the .22LR rimfire in perspective.  It can manage 100 foot pounds at 100yards...a yard stick that small bore airguns really can't match (and few bit-bore airguns can match)..


As airgunner's...we are better off not invoking even .22 RF ballistics as comparisons.