Machining nylon/composite slugs?

[swish]

Just wondering if it has been tried yet? A slug shape for BC yet light weight for speed?  Above all it could actually come to fruition vs having to have moulds made which seams to rarely happen. I hear nylon is a bear to machine but at leased the average guy with a lathe could give it a try. I'm very curious about the weight to BC relationship. Any experience to thoughts?

[Privateer]

That would be a Bob answer
 

I had thoughts of doing a rubber cast and cast a plastic bullet myself.
May even be able to place a few BB's in it.

[AncientSword]

I would think that nylon would have a low sectional density, which would be bad for BC ...

[swish]

What helped spark the idea is i have some .25 nylon stock that I held up next to a Ratsniper slug. Although I haven't put a mic on it yet it looks and feels identical as far as diameter.
Here's where it gets interesting for me. The center of the nylon stock is threaded for a machine screw. So one could easily add weight or adjust where the weight rides. Giving full adjustability also allows you to play with the hollow point depth. A button headed allen screw would give a domed head and so on.

[Privateer]

I believe Bob said something about a plastic funking up the barrel awhile back?
Still would be a fun thing to try.
And adding the weight like you posted? Another good fun test.

[swish]

Could be, how ever crosman makes those penetrator pellets and also skenco makes some as well if I'm not mistaken. I haven't heard of any issues about the plastic.

[Mod90]

Fwiw, I don't think it would make much sense or be very useable.

For a given length, the difference in velocity for two projectiles would be huge, so one will be faster & the other slower, but the problems will start to really show themselves when wind comes into play, as well as that very light projectile passes through the transonic phase of it's journey. Cannot add too not much weight by means of metal buttons or screws either, because unless there's a diabolo shape there will not be any drag stabilization helping to keep the projectile facing forward & it may be inclined to tumble.

IMHO, not worth the effort to use nylon. But If you were so inclined mixing lead with a lot of tin would lighten a lead projectile up quite a bit, but it'd also harden it a lot.

[swish]

I'm not so much looking to gain speed or anything. I'm more curious to see if a lighter weight/composite slug at 900fps vs a pellet would have a flatter trajectory and buck more wind due to a higher BC. If so I would assume one could gain accuracy and in shot count. I would imagine it would take some experimenting to get right as most things do. Guys could turn out 10 of each model, shoot groups and go from there.

[swish]

It would also be awesome to have my 680fps pp700 pistol shooting light weight slugs at 800!

[KnifeMaker]

Sorry, but the ultra light weight, regardless of shape will kill the S.D., which in turn would kill the B.C.  In turn, if the fps was enough to go supersonic, they would be askued in any number of directions. None but a lucky one to the target!LOL!  SD and BC is about much more than simple weight. None of which are impressed with ultra light weight.

Wind bucking ability would be non existent, and the trajectory would be terrible. Just as the gimmick plastic with penetrators in them, They are designed for the wow factor of claimed high fps, and marketed to people that know nothing about accurate AG's and ballistics, and are impressed big box store grand claims. They are a total fail!

We use lead for a reason. S.D.!

Knife

[Mod90]

Sorry, but the ultra light weight, regardless of shape will kill the S.D., which in turn would kill the B.C.  In turn, if the fps was enough to go supersonic, they would be askued in any number of directions. None but a lucky one to the target!LOL!  SD and BC is about much more than simple weight. None of which are impressed with ultra light weight.

Wind bucking ability would be non existent, and the trajectory would be terrible. Just as the gimmick plastic with penetrators in them, They are designed for the wow factor of claimed high fps, and marketed to people that know nothing about accurate AG's and ballistics, and are impressed big box store grand claims. They are a total fail!

We use lead for a reason. S.D.!

Knife

Exactly.
The slightest most gentle breeze would have a substantial effect on such a slug, sending it in God alone knows what direction. Projectiles need their weight, & generally the heavier the better as relates to the SD which in turn has a direct relationship to BC.

As the man said, "We use lead for a reason", nylon, PEEK, & other polymers ain't gonna cut it

[swish]

"dang" Knife, thanks for the buzz kill! Lol. Joking aside thanks for the input and it totally makes sense.
The thing is I'm not necessarily talking ultra light weight. Just lighter weight or a balance point for performance. I completely understand it could be a total pipe dream. I'm just kind of suprized know one has at leased tried it out. I've seen a few things that were never ever gonna work suprize people.

[Marmot_Militia]

I've machined a few out of delrin, nylon, and PPSU.  Tried diabolo shape as well as slugs.  The results were the same, they just don't shoot accurately through any barrel I own.  Even tried smoothbore airsoft barrels.  I'm not sure which universal laws of physics are being broken, but at 10 feet I could shoot at the sky and miss.;-)

They would be perfect for inside warehouses, barns, buildings if they worked.

Hope you have better luck than I did.

Jim

[Mod90]

"dang" Knife, thanks for the buzz kill! Lol. Joking aside thanks for the input and it totally makes sense.
The thing is I'm not necessarily talking ultra light weight. Just lighter weight or a balance point for performance. I completely understand it could be a total pipe dream. I'm just kind of suprized know one has at leased tried it out. I've seen a few things that were never ever gonna work suprize people.

There's a reason for that too.
Ever notice that pellet manufacturers looking for alternatives to lead for making lead free pellets don't use polymers or composites? Some use tin, others use a tin/aluminum,antimony mix, some use steel jacketed in tin or copper, but none of them use plastics to make the entire round.   

That's because manufacturers have tried & have realized a long time ago, stability requires a few key things and if one of those things are missing all chances of a stable & accurate pellet or slug go out the window. Things like shape & design, if the material the projectile is made with can form a seal in the bore, can be easily shaped, if it can be made to expand upon impact or retain it's shape, & lastly the weight:volume ratio of the material, meaning the heavier the material is by volume the better it will be for making pellets or slugs. You can achieve almost all those criteria with polymers, but that weight:volume ratio just won't ever be achievable with pure polymers, since they were almost all of them developed to be strong & durable but as lightweight as possible. Some resins maybe. But definitely not nylon or similar polymers

I suppose if one were to melt down a polymer & mix in a metal in dust/powder form to add weight to it that would increase the weight/volume somewhat & increase the chances of the polymer projectile's success. But how could ensure the exact same amount of metal is in each pellet or bullet? & even more important what metal would one use? Steel or brass might cause damage to the rifling eventually, aluminum or tin wouldn't add sufficient weight, & gold & silver are too expensive to just launch downrange. Possibly copper? Might work, but would be more expensive & labor intensive to use than lead that already meets all the qualifying criteria without all the hassle.


By the by, I'd not fret about whether or not it's a pipe dream. Almost everything made by man today started out that way
Maybe one day you or someone will figure our a way to  make it a reality.

[swish]

I'm not trying to beat a dead horse but did you guys see where I said the center of the .25 nylon stock is tapped for machine screws? Just by adding a set screw it weighed 14.5 grains and way easier than mixing a custom compound. And you can still go heavier if need be. Almost like a fully adjustable sabot.
If nothing else now I have the burning question of how light can one make a lead slug before it is out performed by a pellet?

[Kinetic45^]

Sometimes people reinvent the wheel and sometimes something new that is an advance comes along.
I am not saying that the OP has a bad idea but Knifemaker makes the pertinent points.

However, on suitability of plastic projectiles and the anti-lead trend I can see these becoming a requirement in some states some day if we let the liberals and ecofreeks win ( I have a question, if lead bullets, on land, not in wetlands where there is a known harm to waterfowl is so bad - why are the old Civil war battlefields where millions of spent bullets are in the ground, trees, etc not wastelands?  Went to one last year and it is perfectly normal vegetation and wildlife to me. )

So anyway, here are links to a plastic - copper dust bullet that was tried I remembered from a couple years ago, don't know where they stand today.

https://gundigest.com/gear-ammo/polymer-composite-bullet-accuracy-put-to-the-test

https://www.inceptorammo.com/project/inceptor-arx/