Full automatic trigger safety, why not?

[condor22]

 Air rifle safeties have been debated before, most don't like the typical auto reset safety, required to release each and every time to fire.  My question is why not have the trigger release the safety, requiring full pull of the trigger to fire. This would not require manually releasing a safety button every time and in my opinion would be just as safe.  If you require an auto reset safety for training purpose it is a good choice to have.

 A totally manual safety gives me the option to use or release as needed, where a full automatic trigger safety is always on and only releases upon pulling the trigger. You never forget to engage or release the safety.

 Would this type safety have a place with airgun enthusiast?   

[Doug Wall]

If it only requires a pull of the trigger, then it isn't a safety. Quite a few pistols are now designed with trigger "safeties", but, as far as I know, these pistols are double action, and also include other safety mechanisms. Single action pistols like the 1911, have grip safeties, along with manual safeties.

" Glock pistols are designed with three independent safety mechanisms to prevent accidental discharge. The system, designated "Safe Action" by Glock, consists of an external integrated trigger safety and two automatic internal safeties: a firing pin safety, and a drop safety."

 Air rifle triggers, except for guns like the 1077, are all "single action", and have much lower trigger pulls than these double action pistols, and don't have other safety mechanisms. Just get used to the safety, but don't depend on it. Safe handling at all times!! Back in the "old days", many airguns didn't have safeties. My 1970s vintage Diana 27 doesn't have a safety lever or button. It does have an anti bear trap safety, meaning that the gun won't fire if the barrel is broken open. I've sometimes used that as a "manual safety", meaning that if I want to put the gun on safe, I just break the barrel open a little.

[longhunter]

I don't trust automatic safeties. The best safety is still between your ears.

[condor22]

  By Glock, consists of an external integrated trigger safety. I assume you're talking about the lever on the trigger. This type of safety would be easy to design for single or double stage triggers. To release this type trigger safely one would have to press the lever before pulling the trigger?

[outdoorman]

  Most air rifle safeties simply prevent you from pulling the trigger. If the sear fails, it's going to fire regardless of the safety. I really don't see the point of a safety that is released by pulling the trigger when the safeties purpose was to prevent that in the first place. Many guns with the so called anti-beartrap device also only prevent pulling of the trigger and will not prevent the slamming shut of the barrel if the sear fails while you have the barrel open.

[YEMX]

I like the K.I.S.S. method with regard to trigger safeties.  Too much stuff going on.  No need for automatic safeties...

[Doug Wall]

  By Glock, consists of an external integrated trigger safety. I assume you're talking about the lever on the trigger. This type of safety would be easy to design for single or double stage triggers. To release this type trigger safely one would have to press the lever before pulling the trigger?

That safety lever on the Glock gets pulled during the trigger pull, not as a separate action before. Most Glock trigger pulls are a long 4.5-6 lb pull. Most good air rifles have a short trigger pull of less than 3 lbs.. That long, heavyish pull is part of the safety. I suppose that you could do a Glock type trigger blocking lever on an airgun trigger, but that wouldn't help with an accidental trigger pull (Again, safe gun handling at all times.)

[condor22]

  By Glock, consists of an external integrated trigger safety. I assume you're talking about the lever on the trigger. This type of safety would be easy to design for single or double stage triggers. To release this type trigger safely one would have to press the lever before pulling the trigger?

That safety lever on the Glock gets pulled during the trigger pull, not as a separate action before. Most Glock trigger pulls are a long 4.5-6 lb pull. Most good air rifles have a short trigger pull of less than 3 lbs.. That long, heavyish pull is part of the safety. I suppose that you could do a Glock type trigger blocking lever on an airgun trigger, but that wouldn't help with an accidental trigger pull (Again, safe gun handling at all times.)

Honestly and accidental trigger pull would start with an intended trigger pull thus causing and accident which couldn't have been prevented in the first place unless the safety was on accidentally........I never pull the trigger with the safety on unless I forget an auto safety, why I favor manual safeties.    Safe gun handling is pulling the trigger after meeting safety requirements...........preventing accidental trigger pull IMHO 

[condor22]

I like the K.I.S.S. method with regard to trigger safeties.  Too much stuff going on.  No need for automatic safeties...

 I have no need for a auto safety but others do and I respect that they do have a place in air gunning. 

[longhunter]

Another pet peeve is the safety INSIDE the trigger guard. THAT'S an accident just waiting to happen.

[bubba zanetti]

My two cents.

IF a AG has a safety, then I prefer it in a convenient spot which is usually around the trigger guard area.

Otherwise, not something I give much thought.

BZ

[Mole2017]

Longhunter's pet peeve caught my eye--that's my CFX! I'm used to it, but my fingers are small.

I can go either way, automatic or not, but I need to be able to reset it by just flipping it off if I cancel a shot. A trigger safety would be no good either--I sometimes can't even remember if I cocked the gun and pulling the trigger to figure out if the safety is on or not is not safe. (Or just plain wastes pellets, if you're the forgetful type.)

My R10 has a lever on the left side of the end of the action**. At first it was pretty stiff and didn't seem like a good design, but it has broken in some now and is easier to actuate. Not quite as fast and easy as the CFX, but good enough. It's also pretty easy to "read"--I can tell from quite a distance that the safety is off or not.

Come to think of it, I'm not really a fan of the 1377 type safeties or color coded ones, if they exist. I guess it just creeps me out that it could get bumped on pretty easily and that I have to think about which is the safe position. Somehow the lever on the R10 just makes better sense--pulling back that safety must be so much like cocking certain pistols and rifles that it seems like the right way to turn off a safety for a shot.

**That must be a bother for lefties, but theoretically, that safety can be flipped to the other side. You'd need a new lever and maybe a notch on that side of the stock, but I think it would be doable.

[YEMX]

Another pet peeve is the safety INSIDE the trigger guard. THAT'S an accident just waiting to happen.

Agreed... 

[condor22]

Another pet peeve is the safety INSIDE the trigger guard. THAT'S an accident just waiting to happen.

Agreed...

 I respect this opinion, so if a gun has no external safety release, none in the trigger guard or on the trigger itself, only a internal full automatic only firing pin block, in SA or DA is it unsafe.....?
    Food for thought, these type guns are utilized by the U.S. Navy seals, secret service, police forces and militaries around the world, with no external safeties what so ever! 

   Probably not if you're prone to accidently pulling triggers......

[desmobob]

If it only requires a pull of the trigger, then it isn't a safety. Quite a few pistols are now designed with trigger "safeties", but, as far as I know, these pistols are double action, and also include other safety mechanisms. Single action pistols like the 1911, have grip safeties, along with manual safeties.

" Glock pistols are designed with three independent safety mechanisms to prevent accidental discharge. The system, designated "Safe Action" by Glock, consists of an external integrated trigger safety and two automatic internal safeties: a firing pin safety, and a drop safety."

 Air rifle triggers, except for guns like the 1077, are all "single action", and have much lower trigger pulls than these double action pistols, and don't have other safety mechanisms. Just get used to the safety, but don't depend on it. Safe handling at all times!!

+1 on all of this.  I would feel uncomfortable using an air rifle without a safety, especially one with the trigger pull adjusted the way I prefer it...

I de-activated the auto safety on my Beeman pistol because it bothered me.  When I finally got the trigger pull down to where I liked it, I ended up re-activating the auto safety.  For safety's sake!  ;-)

Tight groups,
Bob

Tight lines,
Bob

[longhunter]

Another pet peeve is the safety INSIDE the trigger guard. THAT'S an accident just waiting to happen.

Agreed...

 I respect this opinion, so if a gun has no external safety release, none in the trigger guard or on the trigger itself, only a internal full automatic only firing pin block, in SA or DA is it unsafe.....?
    Food for thought, these type guns are utilized by the U.S. Navy seals, secret service, police forces and militaries around the world, with no external safeties what so ever! 

   Probably not if you're prone to accidently pulling triggers......

A transfer block safety is perfectly safe. The military are also strictly trained to keep the booger hook off the bang stick, until they're ready to fire. The same can not always be said of everyone else. ( How many times have you watched a youtube video of Joe Blow standing there with his finger on the trigger, before he's even on target? )
My idea of where a safety should be placed is, either on the top rear of the breach block, ( Weirauch, Diana, etc ), or, a cross block safety integrated in the trigger guard, ( Crosman 1400, Benjamin marauder / Maximus ).
The safety is accessible, but not easily taken off, accidentally.
Putting a safety INSIDE the trigger guard, mind you this is  just my opinion , increases the risk of accidental discharge, especially if the trigger is set on the scary edge. Especially when wearing gloves, or, if you have fat fingers, like myself. Most inside the guard safeties, Crosman in particular, are extremely close to the trigger blade, when set.

[Smoketown]

Having grown up with many arms and implements that had NO "safety" at all ...   

The "safety" resides between your two ears.

"You can't fix stupid."   

And stolen from longhunter ... what if we removed all the warning labels (AND extraneous safety devices), and let nature take its course? 

Cheers,
Smoketown

[desmobob]

Having grown up with many arms and implements that had NO "safety" at all ...   

The "safety" resides between your two ears.

"You can't fix stupid."   

And stolen from longhunter ... what if we removed all the warning labels (AND extraneous safety devices), and let nature take its course? 

Cheers,
Smoketown

The safety certainly does reside between your ears.  But, I think it's nice to have an extra layer of safety you can add at will.  As for the warning label and safety device subject, I have to say that I believe the world historically has improved/advanced by the elimination of organisms that are somehow deficient or faulty.     But sometimes, when THEY screw up, they can take an innocent, responsible, careful person or two with them!   

Tight groups,
Bob

[archellas]

Motorcycle helmets, car seat belts, etc., etc., are ALL safety devices. You don't HAVE to use them, but everybody (most) does. And after a while, it becomes second nature. You do things automatically.

I own (probably) every kind of safety on my different airguns, and have gotten used to them on each gun. Some are automatic, on break barrels at the end of the breech to be released by thumb, manual trigger safety (trail NP2, Synrod), automatic trigger safety (Hatsan), cross safety (1077, Prod), etc. I have gotten used to all of them, and use them whenever I am using my guns.

If you don't want to use it, that is fine! Don't wear a seatbelt, or a helmet either, but I am glad they are there. And I will continue to use mine! Just a personal choice folks.

Cheers

[Marc In Iowa]

Something I don't see in this thread is ... air gun use by children.

In the last few years I've done some air gun shooting with a 14 year old. His father was there and we'd patiently run thru all the points of gun safety. No matter what we tried to impress or teach, that teenager was so swept away by "shooting with the men" that it was pretty hard for him to focus.

Time after time the barrel of his rifle would sweep across the area of our bodies or faces; scary. He's smart and capable but impetuous. Anyone remember being 14?

The first serious air gun I bought was my 177 Hammerli 850 COČ rifle; with auto safety. I agree,  many's the time I lined up a shot and forgot about releasing the auto safety; annoying!

However, I soon got used to it. Now, when I'm ready, it's a simple click of my thumb before I do the final breath and pull of the trigger; not so bad.

If you ever are teaching children (or even adults for that matter) to shoot, an auto safety is a nice bit of insurance until safety becomes second nature.

I've seen a similar comment from people teaching shooting with 22LR; they prefer single shot rifles or bolt action. One shot and then you know that next shot's not going to happen until a deliberate action. I learned on a single shot 22; probably a good thing.

And ... I will admit to having been around adult, experienced shooters that have an occasional lapse for whatever reason where an unsafe gun situation happens. I include myself in that.

There's a reason we have the word "accident" in our language. We don't live in a perfect world.