Suscessfully fighting the "new gun" urge...

[Ribbonstone]

Bank account...wife with a neeed for a new computer...house in need of a new kitchen floor...think I'm not buying any new airguns for awhile.  Some of the ewly announced "cheapies" (sub $300) call to me...but I've got lots of old ones that need "more shooting n less sitting".

That's OK...old ones will noit be "in style", but have enough old ingnored airguns that need attending to...and have neglected them enough that it kind of feels like "new" to shoot them.

Guess the best way for me to keep away from any new airguns for awhile is to get into the safe's far left corner and dig out a PCP that I hadn't shot in a long while.

So I'm going back in time...a simpler time....one where we didn't need massive shot counts, full length shrouds, repeaters, and even gauges to keep us entertained.

One of the (few) orginal "cheap" PCP's : BAM 50 or 51.


Dug them both out (a .177 BAM 50 and a .22 BAM 51).  While I can shoot the .177 BAM 50, it's leaking its fill over night and has been out in sick bay until I can get to it. 

"Sick-bay" being the space between this computer desk and the wall to the right (which now has 3 airguns in need of some attention). The "magic" number is "3", once I get to that point, any new tests/shooting is avoided and any time I have is devoted to getting them fixed up/resealed and out of sick bay.

Considering the number and age of the airguns, likely I'd not need any new addtions, I'd have my work time pretty well taken up by sick-bay patients.


But the even older.22 BAM 51 held air over night.  So it got cleaned (YEP..barrel was filthy and the striker area was pretty gummed up from neglect/congealing lube).



Over the years, it's tuned more "Honey" than "blond".




So...is there a place in today's world (other than a couriosity from year's-past) for a 30ish foot pound .22, no gauge, not a repeater, heavy (mostly do the the surprizingly thick steel air tube), a useless issue "LDC", and a tendecency (as issued) to be a real air hog?

Diubt it...we've grown more spoiled over the years (and "spolied" can have the word "discerning" substituted).

Basically "no one" (but me) wants a single shot.
"No one" wants a gaugeless PCP.
"No one" wants a moderate power PCP.
"No one" wants a non-regulated PCP.

Rebuttal to the "no one's":

A gauge would have put the .177 BAM 50 into sick bay earlier...but I still wouldn't have devoted free time to curing them until there were 3 in sick bay.

I don't shoot fast. Even when I miss, will think about WHY I likely missed beofre reloading and shooting again.  I want to have anidea of WHY thepellet didn't go where I pointed it before I launch another one and trust to random-distribution.

While it's NOT universal, middle 800's to low 900's (lets say 850-925fps) seems to be a sweet=spot.

[rsterne]

That's a really nice gun, and a great tune for it.... I'll bet the victims you choose can't tell the difference another 50 fps, or even shooting 25 gr. pellets, would make.... and I would certainly never complain about that shot count....

Bob

[WeeHeavy]

I really like the BAM's and would love to have one some day. Not too tied to the idea of a repeater. There's something ritualistic about single loading a pellet for each shot that I, for some odd reason, find satisfying. I also don't typically look at the gauge on my Marauder. When I tune it and reach the spot I'm happy with, I know how many shots I can take on the charge. I'll use the pump's much easier to read gauge for filling and tuning - the one on the rifle is strictly for a ballpark reference if something seems wrong. As for moderate power - I grew up with the Silver Streaks and other Benji pump and dump air guns (I still have a 397). Your BAM 51 has quite bit more power than those do and I've taken a lot of pests and game with the old pumpers without much trouble. Looks like you have a really nice "vintage" PCP airgun. I say enjoy it!

[jasonmc]

Step back it time that's for sure...i remember when B50 first came out..my father n law bought one in 177. A long time friend of ours bought a 22cal..
The B50 was the rifle that started us out on PCP rifles. Although I never bought one I sure got a lot of trigger time on father n laws..took me a while to step to the dark side (loved my springers ...still do)...my first PCP was the AA400 carbine in 22cal..yep still own it! One I just can't part with.

[pecor]

Bank account...wife with a need for a new computer...house in need of a new kitchen floor..                                                               
                                                                                                                                                                                             Don't overlook slate for your floor the Wife and I love ours!!!! About 8 years ago I used the natural slate squares that are rough cut, Not the real smooth stuff, It will be the last floor you ever put in Stuff wears like iron and looks great all the time!! With easy cleanup I Wish I would have done it years ago, Being that I,m in Mich = Cold.  I used the heat cable system under the slate, The thermostat is fully adjustable for time on-off So when you wake up in the morning the floor is toasty warm, On your little piggies     Ha Ha You probably thought I was going to sell you on the Latest and Greatest PCP

[jasonmc]

Ribbonstone....
Now that you have me thinking of PCP past such as the B50 .. correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't it a copy of a daystate? But I can't remember which model...well without googling it anyway!

[Tofazfou]

Man, SERIOUSLY?!!!  "NO ONE" wants a single shot or gaugeless PCP but you???!!  Have you paid attention to all my airguns?  Notice many if not ALL of them are single shot and gaugeless?  WHY?  Cause its all not necessary.  Its more of a want than a need.

NEW GUN?  Why?  If your old one is accurate, its all the gun ya need!  An accurate OLD and tuned airgun is better than a new untried and untrue airgun......lol

I love your single shot, gaugeless, unquiet and antiquated air rifle BTW!

[anti-squirrel]

So...is there a place in today's world (other than a curiosity from year's-past) for a 30ish foot pound .22, no gauge, not a repeater, heavy (mostly due to the surprisingly thick steel air tube), a useless issue "LDC", and a tendency (as issued) to be a real air hog?

Doubt it...we've grown more spoiled over the years (and "spoiled" can have the word "discerning" substituted).

Basically "no one" (but me) wants a single shot.
"No one" wants a gaugeless PCP.
"No one" wants a moderate power PCP.
"No one" wants a non-regulated PCP.

Hi, I'm "no one" too.  I'm perfectly happy with single-shot guns.    All those other nick-knacks and doo-dads are nice, but for putting a good hole in something, you only need one shot.

Sure I want some new airguns, but all the niches I need filled are filled. No need for a new pellet-flinger until I have another niche to fill.

[ranchibi]

Ribbonstone, beautiful Bam! I recently purchased a Daystate HRXL in .22 but I purchased a Rowan Engineering Single Shot Loader for it which has not left the breach! I shoot way to quickly with the magazine...just like you I want to know what I’m doing right or wrong in between shots . Regulated, non regulated, with gauge or not, hitting your POI is what it’s all about whether it’s a target or prey...only takes one!

[Ribbonstone]

Tofazfou:  That's why the "quotes".....there are still single shot fans. 

Bought that rifle used, so the stock re-work is another man's work...he did well, it's held up great over the years.

The .177 BAM 50 is going to get a reseal today.  Will strip  it down to just an airtube, valve and fill cap in place, air it up to 500psi, and lay the whole tube down in the bath tub with 2" of hot water.  Where it bubbles, it leaks, but I'm likely changing all the o-rings at once (unless it happens to be something simple, like the fill nipple). If it's the valve stem, will have to make one.

De-gas, take it apart, change all the o-rings, put it together, gas it up, and re-dunk to be sure it's cured.

Nothing unusual in PCP's leaking...they're ALL going to sooner or later becasue then all use o-rings to seal, and o-rings will sooner or later give up.  Life in a high pressure enviroment I guess, or just age (old o-rings NOT in a rifle also tend to stiffen and crack). 

So as they all when into the rifle at about the same time....figure they are all about the same age when they went in....change them all while it's apart.

[CraigH]

I have no issue, in fact, like the Thoreau simple philosophy.   And your's are well set up by a experienced, learned owner.

But new gun, kitchen floor, new gun, kitchen floor - do not understand?   

Seriously though, we certain tend toward over population.

[Ribbonstone]

Wife needs a new computer (and she's an Apple fan)....and a new kitchen floor...so the bank account is going to be kind of flat for a time. **Gasp*** haven't had to pull out a credit card in about 13 years, except for things like a blown PAIR of tires 800 miles from home or an ER visit out of state (and got the insurace straightend out later)...be darn if I'll pull one out to play with a toy that's likely to be negelcted 4 month from now.

There are a lot of airguns that I seldom shoot.  Rather than a new toy, better (and cost effective) to shoot them and try to see why I so seldom shoot them. 

In the BAM 51's case,,,I don't know why I've left it alone for so long.  It holds air, shoots great, looks good, and I've grown use to that 10X42MM 30mm tube scope over the years (although I sometimes foreget and reach to crank the power down).

Already know that the magazine repeaters that make single shot loading nearly impossible (or at least something that only a circus performer can do with comfort) seldom get much home-range time. So while great guns for some things, they just don't get taken out for play time.

Know that some are kept ramped up in power.  Target practice in subrubia, maybe a stray out-law tweety or a power line chewing squirrel, isn't the place for those..so they are under used.

Now that I think about it....may NOT fix that old .177 BAM 50's leak.  Doubt I can eaisly find replacement parts for the .22 BAM 51 any more, and I suspect that I will need to in the next few years....so perhaps it goes in the guest beadroom closet with a few other "organ doner" airguns.  It's bought and paid for, any spares are wight there in an assembled chunk,  it doesn't eat, and takes up very little room.


------

Thought:

If I knew I was going to live this long, I'd have saved more bad habits for my old age.

[FuzzyGrub]

Basically "no one" (but me) wants a single shot.
- I do prefer a gun with a mag, because it probably has a single tray option or easy to make one.  The reverse is not true, but guns designed for single shot usually have more room for "fat" fingers.  I have chosen single shot, when it brings another important feature, like a LW barrel in a 1720T.

"No one" wants a gaugeless PCP.
- Yep, another preference, and mainly for leak detection, which they all eventually will.

"No one" wants a moderate power PCP.
- Most of mine are moderate for the caliber.  I have not gone off on any "power quest" to date.  Nothing wrong with that, just something that hasn't intrigued me, yet.

"No one" wants a non-regulated PCP.
- I have not purchased a gun that came with a reg yet.  All have been added, and just became another "tweaker" fixation.  Not that much different than tweaking a non-reg, just different.  I do think entry level pcps, with regs, will open new shooters to consistent shooting guns, without purchasing chronys and spending lots of trigger time learning and tweaking.  There are allot of people that just want to pick up a gun and shoot it.  So, I do believe there will be even more oem regulated guns in our future. 

[Talan]

Really nice looking and probably good shooting gun.  So, Congratulations to you.  You have caught a disease we older folks once called common sense.  But beware, it doesn't last very long in this ever changing air gun hobby. 

[Ribbonstone]

  double posted

[Ribbonstone]

Well...if we are "going there".

My pference is for:

1. Single shots
2. Small air volumes.
3. Non-regulated.
4. Simple construction.
5. High, but not "match" grade accuracy. ('cause I limit my shooting to 40-45 yards when possible)
6. Single stage triggers of about 1 - 2 pounds with a crisp break.
7. LDC over shoud.
8. Wood over plastic stocks (even really plain wood).
9. "normal" rifle configuation over bullpup.


Reasons don't have to make sesne to YOU....my preferences are not yours...only that they make sense to me.

#1. Single shot becasue I stop, evaluate, reconsider between each shot.  Really, I could do that with a mag. fed repeater as it's just self-control to not jusrt cycle another shot, but I'd much prefer a single shot/ bolt probe o-ring on the bolt where I can see it/change it easily rather than inside the barrel.

#2-#4.  I tend to practice in small sessions of 15-30 shots and tend to fix airguns myself.  If I can't tell what is going on in 15-30 shots, then I'm on life support, please pull the plugs and honor my DNR.  Every non-regulated PCp so far has managed to give me 15-30 "good" shots.

#5. What I need is about 3/4" at 50 yards as an average for 4 5-shot groups.  Which will translate into 20 dead critters at 50yards if I don't screw up.  And if I screw up, then I'd have screwed up with ay airrifle, no matter the accuracy orshot count.

#6. I got use to them....and they all go "bang" at about 1-2 ounces.  grew up on mil-surp rifles from the 1960's (before the 1968 firearms law...you ordered 'em by mail and they showed up at your house by US postal service).  from bags on a target, you slowly apply pressure only when the sights are on target...hold the pressure you have when it wanders off target...reappy pressure when right-on target...and sooner or later, the trigger breaks with just a little (1-2 ounces) of pressure while you are dead on target.

So two stage or single stage, 8 ounces or 3 pounds, if it is a "clean" relase, it all comes doen to that last "little 2 ounce bit".

#7. With an LDC, I can take it off and go bare barrel.  Which lets me get to the crown easily, lets me clean the barrel easily, and does NOT DRAW ATTENTION out in the hunting fields. 

YES..being quieter than folks expect does draw the local wildleife and fisheries agents (the "game police") in like flies to honey.  Might be jut couriosity...might be them looking for the firearms guy using an unregerstiered "silencer"...or it might be other hunters (during huning season) ratting on your quietness.

Whatever...I tend to be bare-barreld and loud when out in the woods durig hunting season.

#8. They have tried to make plastic feel more face-friendly in the cold.  HAve these odd "fussy finished" plastic stocks that come close.  Plain as petrified peanut bullet or as beautifully figured as a top grade English double...wood is much more cold-friendly than plastic.

Plastic hs some plus points...it's stable, can be made into the oddest shape, and doesn't cost as much...but given a choice, I'll take plain-hain wood over plastic for it's human sense campatiboitly.

#9. I'm almost ready to try bull pups again.  First trys were ot to liking.

Doesn't matter if you pack8 pound of "hosrseship" in a 1 X 3 foot bag or a 3X1 foot bag...it just ballacnes differently. I do better with forward balance than rearward balance.

Short is quite handy in close-quarters shooting.  If I were doing a room-to-room search of a house, I'd want short.

Many bullpus (not an unintentionl speliing effor) harve recongised and cured this problem, but some still have the bolt to cycle the action located about even with your jaw.  TAke any "normal" repeater and reach back to past your jaw between bolt cycles.

Like I said...SOME have figured this out and put the bolt/lever farther forward, more in line with your natural "up" from the trigger movement of your dominate hand.

Some haven't.

As mentioned, am wiling to try again...although I don't see the real advantage of them other than shortness,

[tennx]

Deleted

[redlined_b16a]

I want a single shot.
The ablity to shhot longer heavy pellets other guns with mags can not.

Gauge is not needed.
We are spoiled though.

[Taso1000]

Ribbonstone....
Now that you have me thinking of PCP past such as the B50 .. correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't it a copy of a daystate? But I can't remember which model...well without googling it anyway!

Jasonmc,

Yes, the B50 is a copy of the Daystate Huntsman but there have been a couple revisions but I'm not sure which one it copies. 

They are still available as new old stock:  http://www.airgunforum.ca/store/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=98

They are very simple and rugged designs.  There are no parts available except for valve poppets that are also at the Canadian Airgun Forum Store.  You will need to replace all the orings in the rifle as they will be jellified or crumbly.  Also the hammer and valve need to be reduced or the rifle will kill the valve poppet.

I prefer single loading.  I have a couple guns with magazines but have single shot trays or adapters for most of them. 

A gauge is nice to have on a back door pest gun just to see if your air leaked out unexpectedly as was mentioned earlier.  For this reason a spring gun may be a better back door gun as it can be made ready by just cocking it.  I agree it's not necessary for all other shooting situations.

I've single loaded all my life so I'm used to it.  I am patient and want to make that one shot count when pesting.  Also there is a chance that a magazine may damage a pellet and wreck accuracy.  It's slim but possible.

Thanks,

Taso

 

[Ribbonstone]

Give you this...a gauge is a good way of telling if the air gun leaked while you ignored it, so you find out a little early.  Doesn't stop it from leaking and may contribute to leaking as it offeres more seals into the high pressure area.

So you find out a touch early.  Are still going to cock the gun/try to fire it or try to fill it up to get a 2nd gauge reading just to be sure the gauge didn't die.  It's still going into sick-bay to be fixed when you have the time, and you're still going to pluck out a different rifle if you really need to shoot right now.

I can live without, have several conversions (maybe 4) and a couple of factory rifles (maybe 3) that don't have gauges.  It's not a big deal for me. 

I grab a rifle....if it has a gauge, I look at it.  If it reads "0" then I dry-fire it to see if the gauge lied....if it is truely empty, will either spend my afternoon fixing the leak rather than shooting (not likely) or pick a different rifle and set the leaker aside to be fixed at another time.

If the rifle is gaugeless, I'll figure that out when I fill it and find it taking on air from "0".  Will take me like 2 minutes more time from pulling it out of the safe to find that out. Then face the same choice of grabbing a differnt rifle or send my shooting time fixing it.

LEts say you're hunting out in the woods.  Are inattentive enough in that quiet setting not to hear the "pssssst" of a leak.  At some point you either try for a shot and get a "clcik" rather than a "pow" OR you notice the gauge reads zero.  Likely at that point you'll try to fire a shot just to see if the gauge lied.  Either way, you aren't fixing it way out there in the woods.