Author Topic: Replaced the 13ci bottle on the Gauntlet with a 23ci one (Read 20329 times))

Tucobenedicto · « **Reply #80 on:** February 23, 2018, 02:00:27 PM »

Quote from: Alejandroo1980 on February 23, 2018, 01:14:58 PM

Quote from: PaulT58 on February 23, 2018, 10:38:48 AM
Was the last one (the one you show in red above) a bellville washer of a shim? If it's a bellville, I remove it and replace it with a .05 shim and see where you're at.
Hi, it's a belleville, same OD and ID but thinner 0.014 inch.

Is a common practice in chinese regs to use thin belleville instead of shims,a thin belleville in a stack of tick goes totally flat under pressure.

WesBob · « **Reply #81 on:** February 23, 2018, 02:12:19 PM »

Ok, interesting. My results were interesting. Removing one of the thinnest belleville washers dropped the pressure to around 950psi, so not really what you are looking for Alexandroo. Replacing with a flat washer one of either the thick or thin belleville will probably be much more likely to work.

Rat Sniper (AKA: PaulT58) · « **Reply #82 on:** February 23, 2018, 02:47:29 PM »

Wes, I used just a regular flat SS washer on the 23c1 tank when I first got it. It boosted the output unto around 1600 psi, which was more than I was comfortable with, so I removed it, but using it after removing the thin bellville might work if that one bellville dropped the output from 1800 psi to 950 psi! It's hard to say without testing it.

A single Belleville Spring Washer has a specific load for a given deflection based on thickness. Two washers stacked in parallel ))(())(( will yield double the load of a single washer for the same deflection; three washers will yield triple the load; four washers will yield four times the load, etc. Alternatively, two washers stacked in series )()()()( will yield double the deflection of a single washer for the same load; three washers will yield triple the deflection; four washers will yield four times the deflection, etc.

rsterne · « **Reply #83 on:** February 23, 2018, 11:47:10 PM »

I really dislike the Belleville arrangement in that 1800 psi reg.... The two pair that are doubled up will be twice as stiff as the singles.... While that can create a "progressive" spring rate.... what you get in reality is all the singles collapsed flat by the time the pairs do anything....

You are correct, some regs. use a thin Belleville on the end of the stack, "inside" a thicker one, instead of a shim.... and that works fine.... That is the only way I can see using a pair of Bellevilles, unless you pair ALL of them to double the spring rate and force.... Some Ninjas with a stack of ten 0.032" Bellevilles in series (singles) use one 0.022" on the end, or one on each end, instead of or in addition to shims.... just like the way your red one is done....

Bob

Alejandroo1980 · « **Reply #84 on:** February 27, 2018, 11:23:18 AM »

Yeah I understand Paul and Bob's comments on the reg mechanics. For the moment I don't have a slidechek to star making test with different arrangements of the washers, the only alternative I have is to start testing different configurations and shooting trough the chronny.
According to this hypothesis (Hajimoto's findings and other as well): If the gauntlet shoots a 18gr pellet at around 900FPS the reg should be "in theory" near 1400PSI output, so that could be an indirect mode to get the desire PSI output.
Let me know what you think about it also form a safety first perspective or what are the real chances I have to break something in the gun, etc etc.
Thanks

WesBob · « **Reply #85 on:** February 27, 2018, 11:47:50 AM »

I put the belleville washer back and with the 1500psi gauge it was sitting just over 1500. Figured that wasn't accurate probably so took my 3000psi gauge off one of my guns and it was registering just over 1600. Who knows whether that one is accurate either lol. Your stack is different anyway so my info is useless, but it may be your regulator is lower than advertised as well. Hard to know without a bigger accurate gauge.

Alejandroo1980 · « **Reply #86 on:** March 01, 2018, 09:29:34 PM »

UPDATE Nº1

Hi again, I finally got the original reg out of the bottle (I heated a little longer and that's it, all without damaging the O'ring at the entrence of de threads).
Then just to do something I took pictures of the inside of both bottles the gauntlet and the Chinese that I bought (the pics are labeled), sorry for image quality but is better than nothing.
In the Chinese bottle I could see a rougher construction and some kind of stains¿? maybe some aluminum rust of some sort.........¿?, in the original Gauntlet bottle it was a lot cleaner and also with a bit of dirt/stains but of a different kind, what do you think ?

Wildcatter · « **Reply #87 on:** March 01, 2018, 09:36:21 PM »

I got the 380 cc bottle from Joe at around $170+ shipped. Almost as much as I paid for the gun, but my FPS went up about 40 feet a second and I gained about 40 shots at around 104 full power shots now. Stacks pellets at 35 yards. At first it didn't like the JSB 18.13's, but seems to like them now, not sure why...

Alejandroo1980 · « **Reply #88 on:** March 01, 2018, 09:50:17 PM »

Quote from: WesBob on February 27, 2018, 11:47:50 AM

I put the belleville washer back and with the 1500psi gauge it was sitting just over 1500. Figured that wasn't accurate probably so took my 3000psi gauge off one of my guns and it was registering just over 1600. Who knows whether that one is accurate either lol. Your stack is different anyway so my info is useless, but it may be your regulator is lower than advertised as well. Hard to know without a bigger accurate gauge.

UPDATE Nº2

Now that I have the reg out and can change it to the 0.35L tank, I think this is what I want to do, but I need some advice from you guys:
I want to take the thinnest belleville washer from the Chinese reg and use it as a shim on the Gauntlet reg to bump up the PSI output, I saw in the Hajimoto's video of reg adjustment that he also had 2 SS shims that measure 0.010 in each (same as my reg) from factory and then added a 0.020 and the reg got to near 1350PSI output.
So as the washer is not flat as the SS ones, which arrangement do you all think is better (see labeled pics)?
I also upload a pic for the new belleville washer setup on the Chinese reg.

Alejandro

tkerrigan · « **Reply #89 on:** March 02, 2018, 04:00:59 AM »

I just ordered a 23 cu in bottle also, I already have a reg pressure checker set up with the Edgun electronic gauge so will change it to 1400lbs or so. Another project. Regards, Tom

Bob Pratl · « **Reply #90 on:** March 02, 2018, 06:10:53 AM »

Use caution, a .020" shim will make a big difference and it's easy to blow the 1.8 burst disc. I know.
Start with small steps like .005" shims and use a accurate regulator tester. Your heart rate will increase when the burst disc blows.

Alejandroo1980 · « **Reply #91 on:** March 02, 2018, 12:05:51 PM »

Quote from: Bob Pratl on March 02, 2018, 06:10:53 AM

Use caution, a .020" shim will make a big difference and it's easy to blow the 1.8 burst disc. I know.
Start with small steps like .005" shims and use a accurate regulator tester. Your heart rate will increase when the burst disc blows.

Yeah I know....baby steps, the problem for me is that I don't have anything at my disposal to make a slidecheck or somekind of PSI tester that is accurate and as many of you have experience before.....the anxiety is killing meeee !!!!!

I want to try this for a long time I really can't wait to shoot the thing already jajajaja.
I guess I have to be patient and import some stuff to test the output pressure.
Thanks for the input anyway man !

Alejandro

rsterne · « **Reply #92 on:** March 02, 2018, 02:32:57 PM »

Alejandro, if you install the 0.014" Belleville opposite the last Belleville (convex to convex), it will flatten out into a flat shim almost immediately anyways.... so it probably won't matter which way you put it in, you can just assume it is a shim of that thickness.... I would "nest" it with the last thick Belleville.... the straight lines are your flat shims....

....( ( | | OR ....) ) | |

Bob

Alejandroo1980 · « **Reply #93 on:** March 02, 2018, 03:46:27 PM »

Quote from: rsterne on March 02, 2018, 02:32:57 PM

Alejandro, if you install the 0.014" Belleville opposite the last Belleville (convex to convex), it will flatten out into a flat shim almost immediately anyways.... so it probably won't matter which way you put it in, you can just assume it is a shim of that thickness.... I would "nest" it with the last thick Belleville.... the straight lines are your flat shims....

....( ( | | OR ....) ) | |

Bob

Thanks Bob I'll post another pic later with the final setup ! and then fingers crossed the test begins.
What do you think about the inside of the Chinese Tank ? anything to worry about ?

Alejandro

rsterne · « **Reply #94 on:** March 02, 2018, 06:38:12 PM »

Can't really see clearly enough to know for sure.... but tanks are so over-engineered I can't imagine ever having a problem if you don't overfill it....

Bob

Alejandroo1980 · « **Reply #95 on:** March 05, 2018, 08:58:40 AM »

Quote from: rsterne on March 02, 2018, 06:38:12 PM

Can't really see clearly enough to know for sure.... but tanks are so over-engineered I can't imagine ever having a problem if you don't overfill it....

Bob

I installed the new tank over the weekend and shot the rifle with no problems or leaks, I left the reg stock I didn't put the thinnest belleville washer as a shim (maybe a bit of fear?? jejeje) So for the moment I'll leave it as it is and will order the jefferson state tuning kit, also buying a slidecheck to monitor the output pressure, can anyone recommend me one ?

Alejandro

Rat Sniper (AKA: PaulT58) · « **Reply #96 on:** March 05, 2018, 09:18:50 AM »

Quote from: Alejandroo1980 on March 05, 2018, 08:58:40 AM

Quote from: rsterne on March 02, 2018, 06:38:12 PM
Can't really see clearly enough to know for sure.... but tanks are so over-engineered I can't imagine ever having a problem if you don't overfill it....

Bob

I installed the new tank over the weekend and shot the rifle with no problems or leaks, I left the reg stock I didn't put the thinnest belleville washer as a shim (maybe a bit of fear?? jejeje) So for the moment I'll leave it as it is and will order the jefferson state tuning kit, also buying a slidecheck to monitor the output pressure, can anyone recommend me one ?

Alejandro

I have 2, I purchased a Ninja Slide Check from Amazon and received it in 2 days. It was about $15.00. I ordered it because I was tired of waiting on the one I ordered from AliExpress that took over a month to arrive. The AliExpress Slide Check was $10.00. There was a big difference though, the AliExpress Slide Check was all metal, much heavier and felt way more durable. The Ninja was aluminum and plastic. Both work, I was just surprised at the better quality of the AliExpress Slide Check.

These are the parts that make up my tester:

Fill Adapter: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Wholesale-Paintball-Replacement-Slide-check-Quick-disconect-blue-slide-check-paintgun-marker-parts/387546718.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.NwzlPQ

Gauge: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/PCP-Paintball-Airsoft-High-Pressure-2-5-Oil-Liquid-Filled-Gauges-63MM-Diameter-400Bar-6000Psi-1/32825803448.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.CLumFA

Slide Check: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Paintball-Remote-On-Off-Slide-Check-Valve/32789056482.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.CLumFA

Total investment: $27.37 and a long wait! LOL!

HuskyDude · « **Reply #97 on:** March 05, 2018, 11:26:33 AM »

Thx Paul. A must if you're going to be testing Regs.
I ordered this one along with the a gauge and on/off vlv.
Same slide chk with and 1/4" Quick Disconnect And G1/2-14 male Male Fill Adapter.
Couple of extra parts I might need later.
Stainless Steel Slide Check With Quick Disconnect And Male Fill Adapter
Now I just have to "hurry up and wait" for yet another e-packet...

HuskyDude · « **Reply #98 on:** March 05, 2018, 11:56:25 AM »

I'd love to see a Barrel Band Support from Haji on a 23ci bottle.

Alejandroo1980 · « **Reply #99 on:** March 05, 2018, 12:57:13 PM »

Quote from: HuskyDude on March 05, 2018, 11:56:25 AM

I'd love to see a Barrel Band Support from Haji on a 23ci bottle.

It's the same one and someone did the install on it already, you can check it over here : http://www.airgunnation.com/topic/umarex-gauntlet-massive-performance-upgrade/page/4/

Alejandro

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Replaced the 13ci bottle on the Gauntlet with a 23ci one

Author Topic: Replaced the 13ci bottle on the Gauntlet with a 23ci one (Read 20329 times))