Replaced the 13ci bottle on the Gauntlet with a 23ci one

[Alejandroo1980]

Alejandro.... If you are planning on using that tank on your Gauntlet, I would urge caution with that output level.... It isn't that 1800 psi is likely a problem, but the regulator will have to be equipped with a 3K burst disc to achieve that output pressure.... That means that if the regulator fails, whatever pressure is in the tank (possibly 3000 psi) will pass through into the gun.... and the Gauntlet is not intended to see that much pressure.... I would make sure that the regulator is equipped with a 1.8K burst disc on the output side, and reduce the setpoint pressure to 1400-1500 psi so that the disc does not rupture....

Bob

Thanks rsterne, I'm not 100% sure about the burst discs limit, as soon as I come home I'll take some pics of the reg  fully disassemble.

[rsterne]

I can pretty much guarantee that you can't get an 1800 psi output with a 1.8K burst disc.... and I have never seen anything between that and 3K.... Will be interested in seeing your photos....

Bob

[WesBob]

Bob, woud it be as simple as taking a shim out of the regulator to drop the pressure? I realize we are talking about unknowns, such as whether this regulator even uses belleville washers, but assuming it did, would pulling a flat shim out most likely drop the pressure enough to use a 1.8k disc? Sorry for asking a bit of unprecise question, just wanted to know from your experience what kind of drop would be expected. Thanks.

[rsterne]

It's possible.... and it that doesn't drop the pressure enough, maybe remove one Belleville washer and then add shims.... I doubt it uses a coil spring at that pressure.... Impossible to say, with it being an unknown regulator.... may not have any shims to remove.... On a Ninja reg. it might take one thick (0.020") red shim to drop from 1800 to 1400 psi....

Bob

[WesBob]

Thanks! I'll have to check mine as soon as I get a chance to see what is inside. I'll post what I find out. 1400psi would probably be just about right for the gauntlet.
By the way, where do you buy your belleville washers and shims in Canada, Bob, being that McMaster doesn't sell here? I noticed fastenal has some of the .032 size, though I don't know if they are stainless steel. That is the only size I could see on their website that would fit.

[rsterne]

I got a friend in the USA to get them from McMaster Carr and send them to me.... You can also get them from Trakar Spring in Ontario, and they have a huge selection of compression (eg. hammer) springs too....  http://www.trakar.com/

Bob

[WesBob]

thanks! that looks like a good option, the trakar.com, can order some springs at the same time.

[nervoustrigger]

Well I got delayed in replying and Bob has already pointed to a source but I’ll go ahead and relay this in case it’s of any use to others...

The only one on Fastenal that has the correct ID (0.317”) and OD (0.625”) and thickness (0.032”) is plain steel.
https://www.fastenal.com/products/details/33363
Actually, it’s the only one with the right ID, regardless of the other two dimensions.
 
The washers aren’t exposed to high pressure air, just atmospheric air so you could simply oil them to prevent rusting.  But somehow they don’t give the load rating…either they are bone-headed or I’m blind.  The stainless ones I typically use are from Zoro and have a flat rating of 260lbs
https://www.zoro.com/spec-disc-spring-03125-ss-belleville-pk10-b0625032s/i/G5263282/
So if you can verify the Fastenal springs have a rating somewhere in the same ballpark, that should be a viable option.
 
For what it’s worth, on McMaster the stainless (P/N 9713K66) and plain steel versions (P/N 9712K66) have identical 260lb ratings…which is the same as the ones from Zoro I use…so presumably the ones from Fastenal are rated the same too.

[WesBob]

Thanks Jason! Looks like the trakar site has the 260lb strength in .032 as well

[Alejandroo1980]

Hi again guys, here's what I promise, the Chinese reg and the Gauntlet reg, and of course the internals of the China reg also, hope it helps.
We have to wait until WesBob post his reg to compare.

See the pics below!! I included the spare parts/o'rings that came with it.

One more thing, Bob can I change the burst discs from one reg to the other Thanks

Alejandro

[rsterne]

If the first 2 pics are your new reg. it looks like the two burst discs are 4.5 K and 5 K.... You don't show what the Gauntlet reg. is, but should be 5 K on the inlet and 1.8 K on the output.... You can probably change the burst discs, but if you put the 1.8K burst disc on a reg. with an output of 1800 psi you will blow it for sure.... I have one 1.8 K disc that has survived 1600 psi, and the rest are OK at 1500.... but I think Jason has had a few burst at that pressure.... but I haven't heard of any letting go at 1400.... So, if you are playing with over 1400 psi, be prepared to replace the 1.8 K disc....

I can't see from your photo, but the "normal" orientation for the Belleville washers is

) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( .... with the flat shim on the inside end, against the body of the regulator....

However, if your reg. had a different arrangement, they could be using that to get the pressure they wanted, I don't know....

Bob

[Alejandroo1980]

If the first 2 pics are your new reg. it looks like the two burst discs are 4.5 K and 5 K.... You don't show what the Gauntlet reg. is, but should be 5 K on the inlet and 1.8 K on the output.... You can probably change the burst discs, but if you put the 1.8K burst disc on a reg. with an output of 1800 psi you will blow it for sure.... I have one 1.8 K disc that has survived 1600 psi, and the rest are OK at 1500.... but I think Jason has had a few burst at that pressure.... but I haven't heard of any letting go at 1400.... So, if you are playing with over 1400 psi, be prepared to replace the 1.8 K disc....

I can't see from your photo, but the "normal" orientation for the Belleville washers is

) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( .... with the flat shim on the inside end, against the body of the regulator....

However, if your reg. had a different arrangement, they could be using that to get the pressure they wanted, I don't know....

Bob

Yeah, you're totally right, on the gauntlet reg the burst disc are 5K and 1.8K, I'll take another pic and measurements on the belleville washers, and post the current orientation on them.
Did you notice that on the gauntlet reg in the output side is the spring ball bearing but on the Chinese one is mora like a brass rod, will that affect the hammer/striker mechanism ?, also the reg came just like in the pics NO shims in the inside so I do agree with you that since there's no shims the belleville washers are the ones that I have to modified to get any PSI changes.
In the meantime I'm looking for parts to do a slidecheck or PSI tester to get a reading of the output pressure.
Alejandro

[WesBob]

Apologies for not getting mine apart yet, I have a slide check here so I can try taking a washer out and see what pressure it ends up at, soon as I get the chance.

[rsterne]

If the 1800 psi regulator has no shims (it looks like it has one thin one in the photo, next to the piston).... you can remove one Belleville ( I would remove the one on the piston end) and try that.... If the pressure is too low, then you can add shims to get back to the pressure you want....

The small valve on the output of the regulator has nothing to do with the hammer and spring, they open another, much larger valve, inside the gun.... The small valve in the regulator is just a check valve to allow the tank to be filled when not on the gun....

Bob

[WesBob]

Here's my 1800psi regulator. My bottle is a 4500psi rated one so the reg has a 3000psi burst disk and a 7500psi.These also only have belleville washers, no shims. I'll try removing one and see what pressure I get. Bad news is I have to pump the blasted thing up again, lol! Oh well I need more exercise anyway 

[Alejandroo1980]

Here's my 1800psi regulator. My bottle is a 4500psi rated one so the reg has a 3000psi burst disk and a 7500psi.These also only have belleville washers, no shims. I'll try removing one and see what pressure I get. Bad news is I have to pump the blasted thing up again, lol! Oh well I need more exercise anyway 

Here's a closeup of the gauntlets reg (it has a red washer) and the Chinese one.

[Alejandroo1980]

If the 1800 psi regulator has no shims (it looks like it has one thin one in the photo, next to the piston).... you can remove one Belleville ( I would remove the one on the piston end) and try that.... If the pressure is too low, then you can add shims to get back to the pressure you want....

The small valve on the output of the regulator has nothing to do with the hammer and spring, they open another, much larger valve, inside the gun.... The small valve in the regulator is just a check valve to allow the tank to be filled when not on the gun....

Bob

Hi Bob as you can see in the pictures I just posted there's a difference in the belleville washers form one reg to the other, I took the measurements of the belleville washer of each reg, the gauntlet and the Chinese, this are the results.

Gauntlet Reg Washers
OD: 0.618 in
ID: 0.320 in
Thickness: 0.030 in

Chinese Reg Washers
OD: 0.625 in
ID: 0.325 in
Thickness: 0.027 in, and the thinnest one is 0.014 in, is the one that is closest to the brass base (in color red bellow).

Last thing, the order of the washers was like this:
[]=)))(()()()(=

[Rat Sniper (AKA: PaulT58)]

Was the last one (the one you show in red above) a bellville washer of a shim?  If it's a bellville, I remove it and replace it with a .05 shim and see where you're at.

[Alejandroo1980]

Was the last one (the one you show in red above) a bellville washer of a shim?  If it's a bellville, I remove it and replace it with a .05 shim and see where you're at.

Hi, it's a belleville, same OD and ID but thinner 0.014 inch.

[WesBob]

It's interesting the difference between our two 1800psi regs. Mine also doesn't have any flat. Paul or Bob, can a guy just use a regular washer from a hardware store the proper size? I guess finding one the right thickness might be a problem too. I took one of my thin belleville out that was in a stack of three. Going to pump it up and check now if I can find a spare 3000psi gauge laying around. I know I have some 1500 so may need to use that but doubt it would be very accurate.