Removing @@ss%% Guns From GTA Mall

[gene_sc]

Since the GTA has opened we have given Air Gun Dealers free Ads in the GTA Mall. This was a decision made by Bob and myself from the beginning based on service and support of the dealers to our members.

We furnish the room for there links and also supply search engine bots and meta info on back side of our server. We are dead against any advertising banners on the GTA and that is why we are a donations member owned forum now. We wanted to build up a good dealer link page that members could trust and depend on for service and help.

Over the years we have had numerous complaints and issues with @@ss%% Gun service and support. I have written them many times about the problems and they always say we will do better. Well it has come to a point now that we have decided to pull there link from the GTA Mall.

Air Gun dealers like Pyramyd. Air Gun Depot, R&L Air Guns, Archer Air Guns, Straightshooters and many others always answer email and give great phone service. Just don't understand why Cobra does not answer phones and return emails in a timely manner.

End

[amb5500c]

Thanks for looking out for us and keeping our best interests at heart.
Richard

[sawtoothscream]

god @@ss%% is a night mare. i ordered a scope from them and it took for ever to get and they sent the wrong one so i had to ship back and have it replaced. also ordered 2 tins of preds and got exacts instead. but they let me keep those and sent the preds.  still what a pain.   heard they are a good walk in shop though

[lillysdad621]

first of all, please do not make rash decisions based on what you see or hear online. there is going to be always a person who disagrees or dislikes this shop or the other for various reasons. To whomever had a bad phone experience, let me say, that I am pretty sure that is not intentional. I speak from experience, as i worked at Cobra for several months and have seen the inner workings of the shop.
To start, even though it has been a fixture on the US airgun scene for years, it is still a shop, not a "corporate" sporting goods retailer. what does that mean? well, i dont ever remember going to Poligon Gas (sorry, i hate using other shops names even in a comparo) and sitting there at their small range and find out why i need a HW97k over a R1, by sitting there at the bench and shooting tins of pellets til the rifle spoke to me. You can do that at Cobra. Wait, you can order by phone, online or WHAT A NEW CONCEPT!!!, you can walk into a real shop and speak to the gunsmith. Hey, you want to learn how to reseal your gun?... Martin will take the time to show you how, then walk you into the back and let you hang out there while he does it and you are picking his brain about the gun... Sometimes answering the phone is not more personable than helping the customer that actually walked in. He will take messages and i have seen him, late at night , after hours calling people back.
Need to learn how to shoot??? why dont you call the other shops to ask if they have setup a local 150 yard range for you to use your new GAMOBEEMANRWSTHEOBENAIRARMS 1500 FPS that brown santa just delivered? Dave sat around with our local rifle range and setup such facility for us to enjoy safely. And he also organizes the FT events that a lot of us in the New England are are so fond of...
How many times have we sent out for something and got the wrong item??? not everyone at Cobra's eats,shoots,sleeps airguns. Some are there for more "billing" oriented issues... but they try to help, and sometimes they make mistakes... But be sure that is not only Cobra. But the crew at Cobra will do you right, because believe it or not, they do know how you feel when you don't get your "shoot" on.
To be honest, my stint at Cobra was more of an eye opener to what the airgun industry is really up to here in the USA, and let me tell you, we are eons behind what Europe has. A lot of the distributors will make you believe that they have enough of an item, and as soon as you need it they will tell you that the item is back ordered...
*(&^, some people have even tried to corner markets, so that there is no other way to get something than to go through them...
I guess my point is, by removing the banner from the mall you are only doing a disservice to newcomers, as there is not one retailer in the US that will take the time (when you get through to them) to help you as much as the guys at Cobra. And if there is anything i can help you with, please email me. I see the guys every day, sometimes is even me at the end of that phone line... and i do it out of love to the sport.

[r1derbike]

Well, if you can't say something nice about dealers, pass it around! ;-]

Inadequate customer service is never good, no matter history, intentions, or convictions.

If you don't exceed customer expectations, you're walking backwards.

I know this.  I've been handling customers professionally for 35 years.

Thanks, Gene.

Charles

[ezman604]

...and I will pitch in a little here also, until Gene responds to the above comments. But this action was NOT taken based on hearsay and rumor. It was personal experience. Gene has been trying to get an answer on a product they offered for over 3 weeks now. I think we have actually been asking about this item for over a month now with no response. This through phone calls and email. Okay, the walk in customer deserves proirity. But you have to cover all bases with customer service if you intend on staying in business and you actually care about building customer loyalty.
I have recently had my share of less than stellar responses from them also. I had to resend the same message I believe 4X to CS (and was responded to by the wrong first name even with MY name at the bottom of the message) before I got ANY response. I was inquiring about a particular gun purchase. I waited 5 days before pressing on with an order from another vendor. As soon as I hit the buy button with the other vendor, I received a message from Cobra stating the gun I was inquiring about was out of stock till the 14th. Timing....go figure.
I understand your inside view. I understand your loyalty. But understand where we are coming from as the customer. Even though we have heard numerous complaints from other members about the CS at Cobra, the decision Gene made was based on personal experiences. I wish we both had better results to report but have to go with what we KNOW and experience.
Happy Shooting!!!!
Dave
 

[lillysdad621]

fair enough... i guess i am stuck in times where you did not have the ease of pressing the order button and have your item there within 3 days... if your item happens not to be in stock (and you cant have everything unless you are like walmart...) and someone has to call the distributor, get it ordered, receive it, repackage it and resend it it takes more than our "immediate gratification " hunger allows... we will still be there for when you need to figure out what the difference between an AO scope and non AO matters... or why is it that your 1200 fps gamo is not shooting as hot. Again, is not my shop, and i am apologizing about it... but i hope that it never looses that 'mom and pop's " feeling... maybe is the same reason why i think my sheridan is the best rifle in the world...lol

[lillysdad621]

and yes... if i can help anyone please do not doubt to email me... i am not ashamed to get those guys at their houses in the middle of dinner and ask questions... I'll do my best.

[sawtoothscream]

like i said i heard there walk in shop is great. but my experience and many others with there online shop isnt to good.  If your going to offer things for sale online you have to keep up on it. not send the item almost a month later and send the wrong items.  if there online work was better i would have used them more since they had great prices

[ezman604]

...and not many of us, regretfully, ARE close enough to be walk-in customers. So we have to rely on the internet, email and phone orders. Yes, we have become accustomed to the "instant gratification" of getting an item at the push of a button. That's the price we pay for progress. I prefer the personal touch and a handshake to do business. In order for any business to flourish and be nationwide, you must have and maintain an internet presence. And if you have it out there, you MUST maintain and support it. Or else you lose face with the customer and have what we are seeing here.
Thanks for the inside words and the encouragement for support!!!!
MUCHLY appreciated.

[gene_sc]

Well this was not a decision on the spur of the moment. Back before Joe used to work for @@ss%% Guns I had numerous complaints about the lack of attention to call in orders, email communications and a list of other issues that some of you have touched on.

I was ready to drop them back 3 years ago but Joe talked me out of it. Seemed to get better but after Joe left they soon went down hill to where it is now.

Yes we expect instant gratification but poor communications and ignoring phone calls with no return calls or return emails just broke the camels back this time.

Why should we place a vendor in our Mall if that is the kind of service they offer. This is the case with other vendors as well. If we finally get enough complaints they will go also.

@@ss%% Guns will continue on and maybe they would be better off letting folks no that they are not a retail store as it appears when going onto there web site.

Best of luck to @@ss%% Guns but the free ride is over.

[Remo]

I am close enough to Cobra to visit the shop as well as deal by phone/online.  I suspect Cobra is a 1 or 2 person operation ( Dave & Martin ) not counting "office" staff.  My experience with Cobra is identical in every respect to what has been said here.  They are wonderful to deal with on a personal basis if you can get to the shop, but other communication skills have been lacking.  No excuses for them, its supposed to be a business, not a hobby.  I would have purchased my AA S410 from them, but unresponsiveness took them out of the running.

My only curiosity about removing them from the mall is whether or not they got a "FINAL DISCONNECT NOTICE" before the plug was pulled?  If so and it was ignored, shame on them.

Eric

[clip]

I am close enough to Cobra to visit the shop as well as deal by phone/online.  I suspect Cobra is a 1 or 2 person operation ( Dave & Martin ) not counting "office" staff.  My experience with Cobra is identical in every respect to what has been said here.  They are wonderful to deal with on a personal basis if you can get to the shop, but other communication skills have been lacking.  No excuses for them, its supposed to be a business, not a hobby.  I would have purchased my AA S410 from them, but unresponsiveness took them out of the running.

My only curiosity about removing them from the mall is whether or not they got a "FINAL DISCONNECT NOTICE" before the plug was pulled?  If so and it was ignored, shame on them.

Eric

   That last paragraph brings up a question: When a vendor is disconnected/removed from the GTA, are they given a notice to that effect or do they have to find out the hard way? I would hope they would be notified they were no longer on the forum and given the reason why. I'm not complaining about the removal...just wondering if the company was informed about it and why they're no longer welcome.
  Larry

[ezman604]

I'll just toss out this reminder to all. GTA is a NON-sponsonsored site. We accept no monies from ANY vendor/retailer and do not place any advertising banners on our site. What we DO is if a company supports our members and has reliable customer service, we WILL put a link to their site (along with a logo) on a special vendors page. This is voluntary and does not indicate ANY attachment or commitment by ANY parties. It is a courtesy to our family members that there are dealers out there that have proven to give the best service.
And to answer the question, YES they are notified of the pending action. They were contacted for approval to place their link on our site (why wouldn't they want free advertising) and are notified if/when any changes are made. Again, no response to the pending changes helped spur this event.

[Nathan]

If I were to guess I would say they were given no notice their link was pulled. I say that because the link  is provided free per Gene's statement. If they were paying for the service of having a link/ banner maintained on the GTA, then I would say yes they should be notified. Now if they (@@ss%%) find out indirectly or through a 3rd party and wish to "appeal" to the forum owners, well that's a different story. My personal experience with Cobra Airguns is several years ago I ordered a rifle and the transaction went smooth and without incident. I cannot speak to others issues with them.

Nathan

[Nathan]

I stand corrected. Dave posted his reply just seconds before mine.

Nathan

[CharlieDaTuna]

Gene and I have had discussions regarding Cobra several times over the past several years and after again reviewing the past history of Cobra it has come to this. Gene and I are in total agreement. It is of their own doing regardless of who is running the show and the result of their lack of business ethics and responsibility to their customers including our members. The decision has been made and is final.

Both Gene and I, as owners of our own small business world, all we have to do is ask ourselves …. What if we conducted our businesses in this manner???  

 Even more importantly, as owner and co-founders of the GTA forum, what if Gene and I ran our/your forum in that manner..... where would we be today???  

What would our business customers and/or members expect from us???   Good business ethics, customer service and sound basic principles. Both Gene and I try to provide nothing less and we would expect the same from our vendors that we support on our forum toward our members as customers.  

And finally, let me say that Gene has brought this to their attention several times in the past and to no avail it seems. Nothing much changed.

CDT

[Remo]

Wow!!  What a disappointment.  Bye Bye Cobra.

[Jay]

I myself have never had any transactions with them, BUT I understand an respect the Admin's direction they have taken on this. "Thanks Guys" for looking out for us.

[The Knot]

This is sad because it isn't fair to martin and mike the 2 smiths at the shop whose work is great and as they both take great pride in there craft. I have been going there for 4 1/2 years and always treated well and the in shop service is very fair i have waited my turn like everyone else new and old and have learned much from just listening to the 3 main guys martin ,mike and yes gabe are very knowledgeable on all areas of airgunning and treat you like family. But the truth is they are smiths not phone answerers and shipping clerks which is the down fall of the shop as they can't do it all. I must be honest things just arent the same down there why i have no idea and it's not for me to judge but on many saturdays the shop is pacted for hours and the guys can't  answer every question and serve showroom at the same time let alone shut the lathe. But workers are workers and do what there instructed and as a walk in only 7 miles away iam spoiled and don't see the other side because i go on my free time .  But truth be told the changes need to be in how the ownership views his buissness and he alone can change what many see as a steady decline in over all service .It pains me to see this become what it has as the shop is a real great place for a true airgunner and the guys are all solid people who are my friends and yes i do miss seeing joe he's a good fellow also. In the future i hope things change ,chris