First PCP and hand pump.

[SpeedyBB]

   So I've decided to get my first pcp air rifle. I lurked here quite a bit before making an account and learned a lot. This is a really long winded post, the top is about the gun, and bottom is about a pump.

   I feel pretty settled on the PR900W aka Airmax Varmint aka Diana Stormrider. I was planning on getting it in .22, so it will be my first .22 air rifle. You guys and others have had a lot of good things to say about it. The thing that's kept me from getting a disco for a couple of years is it was single shot, and I figured if I was going to invest this much money into an airgun I wanted a repeater. Turning the disco into a repeater is not cheap. The Varmint looks to be the perfect first pcp for me. It's light, not built like a toy, accurate, repeater, small reservoir, and plenty of power. True it hasn't quite stood the test of time like the disco, but could someone tell me what can really go wrong with pcps? I'd imagine compared to springers they are probably easier to work on, there is less going on inside the gun. Seems like replacing o-rings would be the bulk of work required to do on them, please correct me if I'm wrong.
   My only real concern with the design of the gun is how exposed that barrel looks, it's free floating and that's great but there's a mighty big gap underneath and no sort of support side to side. I read a thread where the user here avator put a free floating barrel band on it. I would most likely like to do the same myself, but I'm just not sure where to start with that project as I don't know what band would fit correctly. For now I'll leave that alone and see what I think when I get the gun.
   That all said, the gun is out of stock everywhere. I was going to buy the Varmint from Mrodair as opposed to the Diana Stormrider elsewhere for two reasons, at Mrodair he's got a great deal that gives free shipping and extra magazines, and it being a smaller company than Diana or the outlets selling the Stormrider I'm hoping that there would be a better quality check on the guns. Them being from China, and now that they are selling really well, I have to be honest and say I worry about corners being cut, so a good quality control on the sellers end should be a must. So what do you all think? Should I go with the Diana or Airmax?

   Last and not least is a pump. This is my biggest concern. If I'm going expensive I expect it to last many years with no issues, something I want to use for the next decade and with other possible pcps in the future. Reading about the Hill mk4, it looks to be a great pump, but it's not without issues and that's putting me off, they have been known to occasionally blow seals, I guess they build up heat very quickly. If my pump is going to be that expensive I want no issues with it. On the other end I'm leaning more towards an ebay pump, these look to be very hit and miss. I guess they are a copy of the G6 pump, but maybe with some corners cut. Looks like some people love them, some people hate them. Apparently when they work well they even outperform the mk4. There's the same chinese pump sold under some names (Taousa for example) that are medium priced, I'm not sure what gain there is to buying one of these as opposed to a no name cheap one. From what I can tell, the cheap ones have a blue end on the hose, and the medium priced ones don't. I've also read some people have had trouble getting the female foster ends to fit on their guns with these pumps. If you were one of these people, could you tell me if it was the blue end or the non blue end? Also, are the o-rings common sizes or are there real oddballs thrown in there? If they are common sizes I was thinking about getting a kit of o-rings and rebuilding one of the cheap pumps if needed, but using o-rings I know to be good quality.   Thanks.

[pecor]

I have the Blue end on my sub $50 Ebay pump. After about 5 use's. It started pushing back, The handle wanted to rise by it's self when pushing down the handle, I tore it Down and their was a big Gob of Chinese silicone grease on a check valve? That was obviously not letting the valve open and close properly, I went over it and cleaned it all up, Lubed it up with some Mac1 silicone Sauce. And it's still working fine right now, 6 months latter, I don't use it every week tho as I'm filling a 13 ci Regulated bottle and getting a ton of shots with it, And I only use the gun to Blast Starlings and Feral pigeons with it, I'm Not a big target shooter,  I did not change out any of the O-Rings, It did however come with a complete rebuild set included as well as filters. Personally if I was spending the money that the Hill mk4 costs, And if I shot More I would buy a Young Hen Compressor as the price has really dropped on them. And most all of the guys are pretty happy with them.   https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=123440.0

[SpeedyBB]

Cool, so the blue end is the correct fitting then, that was the big thing I wanted to know about the pump.
If I have to rebuild the pump, I'm cool with that. Hopefully I won't, but it won't be so bad if I do. The metal parts don't appear to be cheap from what I can tell, but they don't always make a good seal, and that should mostly be down to the o-rings. You can buy o-ring kits cheap, hopefully they are common sizes so the pump can be easily rebuilt as many times as I like for cheap.
As for the electric pump, you make a good point. The mk4 is just too expensive to justify when there are electric pumps close to the same price. I would still consider the mk4 if I knew for sure it was like a tank that will never give me trouble. I'll probably just get the ebay hand pump first, then maybe get an electric pump in the future. Especially if I ever get something with a bigger tank.
What about moisture? Is it really a big thing to worry about it you are careful and bleed the pump often enough? I live in Ohio, humidity is all over the place here.
I emailed mrodair asking about when the varmint will be available. No response yet.

[anti-squirrel]

I own the Varmint- bought used off another member here.  It's been on my radar for over a year, and was the main competitor (along with the Maximus) for my money when I instead bought the PP700 MKII pistol from Krale-Schietsport.  I fill my PCPs including a Ninja-bottled QB-79 using a Benjamin handpump I got 3 years ago. 

About the Varmint/PR900 rifle:

Krale-Schietsport: pretty good price

Aceros de Hispania:  pretty good price here, too

The prices aren't as cheap as you can get from Mike at MRodAir, but you can get them and be shooting inside a week or two if you can't wait.  I haven't compared prices to the Stormrider, so cannot comment there.

Incidentally, might be worth checking out some of the other PCPs at Krale and Aceros.  They aren't the only companies shipping airguns to the US, either.  Mundilar also does, and there's a couple others, too.

[Ribbonstone]

HAven't found any internal moisture issues (rust/corrosion) due to pump filling. Am inside the tubes often enough that I'd notice it.  New Orleans is not a dry climate.

Did find rust inside a brand new rifle's tubes...so whtever it was filled with (pump/tank/compressor) would have likely gotten the blame for the rust if it hadn't been discovered when new.

HAve found corrosion on the gauge block of some rifles.  The hole though the tube for the gauge to pass allows the gauge block to be exposed to outside air between the two sealing o-rings....so mist/rain/dirt/pollen/dust can get in, but it's not a section exposed to the compressed air so it's not the fill device's fault.

For the $, there are three choices in low-cost PCP's that would be good.  The only repeater in this $200 or less group would be the Varmint.  In single shots, the Maximus and the Beeman Chief.  Of the three, right now, the supply of Beeman Chiefs and Varmints in .22's seems to be spotty (guess they sold more .22's than expected...and it's a long slow boat trip from China).

As for the cheap -China-pumps....that's all I've been using for about 2 years, and I shoot quite a bit. 

[anti-squirrel]

For those waiting on a Beeman Chief:  they are available on Amazon in .22 with a 4 to 5 day delivery for $163-ish.  Next time I get a good deal on converting my Choice Hotel Points to Amazon gift cards, I'll have one more PCP.

And anybody that cannot wait for the Varmint to show up locally can order from an overseas vendor.  In other words, they're still available

[SpeedyBB]

Cool, I'll be getting the varmint. I'll wait though, just don't want to make a purchase like this overseas. I also suspect (though maybe incorrectly) that there would be an extra stage of quality check before shipping to the customer if I order here.
Good to hear the pumps aren't much of a problem moisture wise. I'll take the correct precautions just in case though. I'll get one of those chinese pumps too, already know what seller on ebay I'll use, but I'm holding off until I order the gun.

[Bicycleman]

Ethan, welcome to the GTA Forum and good luck in the world of PCPs.


Mike - Louisiana

[Rat Sniper (AKA: PaulT58)]

Ethan,

I have a EBay hand pump (the one with the blue end) and the Benjamin Hand Pump.  The Benjamin pump came with the .22 Maximus as a kit. 

I also have a Varmint in .22 and a Beeman Chief and Maximus in .177.  Of these, the Beeman Chief is the most consistent for accuracy, but it’s single shot.  The Varmint is the rifle I use the most, and thus far has been reliable.  I did recently notice a feed problem when using Crosman Premier pellets.  Seems they want to lean to one side when being fed into the chamber and that is causing them to jamb.  I have not figured out why this is happening because this is a new issue that was not an issue before.  It only happens when shooting from a bench and I cycle rounds with the rifle sitting level.  If I point the barrel down and then cycle another pellet into the chamber they don’t jamb. 

As to the foster fitting on the Chinese hand pump, I can tell you it fits every PCP I own.  The Foster fitting on my Benjamin hand pump will not accept the fill probe for the Varmint.  I guess it makes sense that a Chinese fitting would fit a Chinese probe. 

Also, one other advantage to the Chinese hand pumps sold on eBay, the foot holds fold flat.  I have a short 36” Tactical Rifle case I picked up for around $10 that fits the hand pump perfectly, so it has a nice, padded carry case when I need to take it to the field. 

I live in FL, so I’m sure our humidity is probably a bit higher than in OH, so when shooting at Home, I always refill my rifles indoors.  This is for two reasons, it’s air conditioned, so the air is not only dryer, it’s a heck of a lot cooler when your hand pumping 50 - 60 pumps to fill the Varmint!  The Maximus and Chief only need about 40pumps to fill, but they are also only 2K psi where the Varmint is 3K psi to fill.

For the price of a Chinese EBay hand pump, even if you had to replace it every year, I think you’d still come out a head and get more years of service from them than you would any of the others for the money spent.  Good luck with your search for a PCP and pump, I would definitely recommend the Chinese Combo (Varmint/EBay Hand Pump), for the money, I think you’ll get the most bang for your buck!

[anti-squirrel]

Cool, I'll be getting the varmint. I'll wait though, just don't want to make a purchase like this overseas. I also suspect (though maybe incorrectly) that there would be an extra stage of quality check before shipping to the customer if I order here.
Good to hear the pumps aren't much of a problem moisture wise. I'll take the correct precautions just in case though. I'll get one of those chinese pumps too, already know what seller on ebay I'll use, but I'm holding off until I order the gun.

Just to share, my PP700 arrived in mint condition.  I've received airguns sold from vendors inside the US and they are not packaged as well nor handled as well as what I've received from overseas at Krale.  A quick perusal of what people have experienced with a certain vendor in Arizona that sells Airguns will be enlightening.

In other words, no, they don't receive any more quality checks.  To be blunt, I'd trust a purchase that is packaged to ship across an ocean long and arrive 2 days later before I'd trust the vendor's packaging here in the US that may take 3 to 12 days to go less than 600 miles.

With hand-pumping, just do what Paul recommends and pump indoors in an air-conditioned environment. 

~~~
As to the foster fitting on the Chinese hand pump, I can tell you it fits every PCP I own.  The Foster fitting on my Benjamin hand pump will not accept the fill probe for the Varmint.  I guess it makes sense that a Chinese fitting would fit a Chinese probe.  ~~~

That's odd, Paul.  I have a Benjamin pump as well and it works with both my PP700 probe and my Varmint (PR900W) probe.  It's a more precise fit with the shorter probe on the rifle, but still easy to take on and off.  Have you to had a chance to measure OD and spacing on the probe with a set of calipers?

[Rat Sniper (AKA: PaulT58)]

~~~
As to the foster fitting on the Chinese hand pump, I can tell you it fits every PCP I own.  The Foster fitting on my Benjamin hand pump will not accept the fill probe for the Varmint.  I guess it makes sense that a Chinese fitting would fit a Chinese probe.  ~~~

That's odd, Paul.  I have a Benjamin pump as well and it works with both my PP700 probe and my Varmint (PR900W) probe.  It's a more precise fit with the shorter probe on the rifle, but still easy to take on and off.  Have you to had a chance to measure OD and spacing on the probe with a set of calipers?

I need to and compare it to the foster fittings on my other PCP's.  The Benji works with all but the SPA Probe, it's just too big.  The Chinese pump fitting fits them all.  As I previously mentioned, the Chinese hand pump goes with me because is fits every foster fitting I own, and it's much more portable due to the design of the folding feet!  I'll measure them when I get home and post the results...

[nervoustrigger]

FWIW, the brass probe that came with my PP700 has a larger diameter than the other Foster fittings I have.  Don't recall how much, I will try to remember tonight and reply back.  The only other example I can think of is the one on my B51.  I had to reduce it a few thousandths to get it to cooperate.  It's steel though.  The SPA fitting being brass, it is getting pretty scarred up in use. 

[Rat Sniper (AKA: PaulT58)]

Okay, this is what I have, foster fitting on my Maximus is7.88 mm or .31”.  Fill probe for the Varmint is 7.98 mm or .314”.  So it’s not much larger, but enough to where the fitting on my Benjamin pump doesn’t fit over the ridge!

[anti-squirrel]

Okay, this is what I have, foster fitting on my Maximus is7.88 mm or .31”.  Fill probe for the Varmint is 7.98 mm or .314”.  So it’s not much larger, but enough to where the fitting on my Benjamin pump doesn’t fit over the ridge!

Chuck it up in a drill and run a mill-cut file over it.  Only needs a scosche taken off   Maybe even just use some 400-grit paper.

I'll run a set of calipers over mine tomorrow.  I kinda wish the PP700 and the Varmint used the same probe.  I use the one of my Varmint to fill the pistol, but not vice versa.

[Griffygriff]

I only use pumps to refil my FX Bobcat .25 and have a Hills MK4 and a MK3 with the Crystal DryPacks fitted.  (Which I ordered directly from Hill Pumps UK).  I have absolutely no issue refilling my gun to 230Bar and it isn’t hard to do, once you work out the technique.  However I am over 90kgs and a mate who was only 68kg couldn’t use the pumps.  (Not sure if this is a weight related thing, or he is a wuss).
Hills are great to deal with direct and even sell replacement dry-crystals and full seal kits.

[pecor]

Ya but Why buy a Hill Pump? When a $50 E-bay pump will do the Same Thing??     I'm Glade you like it though, The consistences is they all do the same thing 

[SpeedyBB]

However I am over 90kgs and a mate who was only 68kg couldn’t use the pumps.  (Not sure if this is a weight related thing, or he is a wuss).

I'm about 170lbs, so 77kg. My fitness is good. I think I'll be fine, I have no trouble pumping up car tires with a bicycle pump, I've overheated the hose a couple of times and popped them in recent years doing this. I've since gotten an electric one, so no more shortening the hose on my pumps!
No doubt body weight will help with something like this though, from the videos I've seen it looks to require a lot more force. I routinely pump my bike tires to 100 psi, not sure how that will compare. If the pump takes more force to push down all the way than your total body weight I guess you would need to do some sort of motion to increase your body weight temporarily, like a small jump or something to get some momentum.

[nervoustrigger]

If you are healthy, it's more about technique than strength.  I am just shy of 6ft tall and weigh only 145 lbs (66kg), 40 years old, and I have no problem pumping to 3000psi.  I drop my weight on it for the last 1/3 of the stroke and that does the trick. 

[longhunter]

I'd shy away from mrod air. WAY too many complaints about that place. C minus rating with the better business bureau doesn't look good, either.

[Griffygriff]

If you are healthy, it's more about technique than strength.  I am just shy of 6ft tall and weigh only 145 lbs (66kg), 40 years old, and I have no problem pumping to 3000psi.  I drop my weight on it for the last 1/3 of the stroke and that does the trick.

. Great feedback.  I’ll tell my mate he’s a wuss then 

Also “Why a Hill Pump?”
For me its because they are well engineered and built to last. Also you can get spare parts direct from them which is ace, especially as someone dropped my pump and damaged the gauge.  I ordered a spare gauge and it simply bolted it on.