Finger Mashing, anti-bear trap devices, and air rifle safety??

[dtdtdtdt]

My RWS 54 has an anti-finger mashing device, an automatic safety, and a 2# trigger.  My FWB300 has a 4 oz trigger, no anti-finger mashing device but has a latch to keep the lever shut.

I have read numerous posts about the need for such devices and the things people have made to avoid the rifle action snapping shut.  I am sure some must have happened to make RWS put the device in their designs. 

However, I have never read or even heard of a first-hand (or finger?) report from someone who says:  "I mashed a finger in my rifle's chamber area last week and am now known as nine-finger." In fact, I can't recall hearing of a second or third hand/finger report.  Is it an urban legend?

Have any of you ever had the action spring shut on you?  Any injuries?

[Yogi]

I once had a friend who pulled the trigger of his break barrel gun when the barrel was open and cocked.  It snapped shut in a hurry and bent his barrel.  When people here first started talking about "barrel bending" I thought that is what they meant....

-Y

[avator]

Maybe like this?

[dtdtdtdt]

OK!  Looks bad.  I am convinced!! 

I viewed the video of a very nasty wound!!!  Apparently the rifle slipped on his leg before it was fully cocked and bit him.

I wonder if it would have done the same fully cocked.  Will the anti-bear trap stop this situation??

Let's see what else shows up! 

[avator]

I have a couple of the Industry Brand underlevers. One in particular I named "FooManChew" as a reminder. They do have anti-bear-trap but I don't trust them. I place the butt under my right arm pit and NEVER let go of the cocking lever during loading. I make sure the gun is pointed in a safe direction before I return the lever to the closed position and I NEVER let anyone use these guns. I would recommend a "block/chock" to insert in the breech when it's open. You could tether it to the gun to be handy. Sure, it slows the shooting process but it's much better than the alternative. Even a "pop/cork" gun has it's potential dangers.
"You'll chop you're thumb off, kid"

[Roadworthy]

I have yet to see a break barrel with a true anti-beartrap.  All I've seen rely on some form of automatic safety to keep the trigger from being pulled while the action is open.  In Bill's video the gun slipped during the cocking process and the sear had not yet latched.  If it was a break barrel gun (and I believe it was) the anti-beartrap would not have saved his thumb (and  it didn't). 

It is definitely food for thought about becoming complacent when cocking airguns, especially break barrels.  The incident did not happen when was loading the airgun, which has always been my worry.  The gun apparently slipped while he was cocking it.

In the case of fixed barrel rifles, they do have a true anti-beartrap device.  It comes into play even before the rifle is fully cocked and is not easily released until the rifle is fully cocked and the sear is holding the piston.

[avator]

Thank You Thomas;
Admittedly I did not watch his whole video. I assumed it was the one I'd seen before. Either way I think it still serves to heighten awareness.

[Mr. Panther]

     I remove the bear traps from most of my break barrels as I don't like not being able to de-cock them. On some I remove the saftys too as a personal preference. I know all my Hatsans have the automatic safty de-activated. Of course I wouldn't recommend this to every one, but again it is personal preference.
     I own 6 B3's and seeing as I don't mess with the trigger on them they seem to be safe, where I have never had one slam shut or fire with the lever open, but that is just my interaction with them.
     I am as safe as I can be, most are as safe as they want to be. I don't suggest anything I did to my air rifles to influence any one elses ideas of what constitutes a safe air rifle. Just my 2 cents worth. 

[brent375hh]

I always thought the FWB300 had some kind of safety device, that ratcheting sound when cocking. I better look into that or start holding the cocking arm when loading.

[c_m_shooter]

I don't have pictures, but got my thumb slammed in a Chinese made sidelever back in the late 90's.  Thumb turned a bunch of colors and the nail fell off before it healed.  It was a mechanical failure of the rifle because it wouldn't cock after that.  Sent it back for repair and came back with about  10-15 lb trigger pull.  Never shot it much after and don't remember what ever happened to it.

[Mole2017]

Aye, I had some time with a chinese underlever that was scary--that thing fired itself once or twice after loading. While loading, all I could think about was where my fingers were--I had heard about this hazard. That has also been on my mind with a couple of break barrels I worked with for family and friends--I never let go of that barrel until I was done loading.

Fortunately, my first purchase was a 1377, a Gamo CFX, then a 15 year old 392, and finally a PCP. The CFX/CFR/Accu breech is nearly foolproof from a safety viewpoint. The ramp takes some getting used to, but I find it easier than one particular break barrel I had to deal with that needed a seating tool to get the pellet in enough so the skirt wouldn't get cut.  I've attached a picture from a Pyramyd air review on the CFR if you haven't seen the Gamo rotary breech before.

While I've shot the CFX with the breech open with no consequence, an open bolt on the PCP can hurt your ears some or blow trash in you face--not fun.

[Yogi]

Blood and Guts

-Y

[dtdtdtdt]

Brent:

Now that you mention it, I have heard the click-click on the FWB 300 too but didn't associate it with a anti-bear trap device.  I'll look at it more closely when I go into the bowels of the earth (basement workshop) next.  I have never felt uncomfortable with the FWB so, we'll see.  I'll hit the internet to see if I can find anything definitive. 

I looked through a detailed schematic of the 300SU just now.  There are only two parts with the name 'safety' in their description.  One appears to be the safety lever itself (1700.147.1 Safety Bolt)  while the second (1700.347.1 Safety Lever) has a good-sized hook that probably holds the piston back. It is associated with the trigger group.  Given its apparent size, I suspect that it is an internal bear trap device that drops out of the way when the safety is released.  It doesn't appear to be associated with the actual trigger mechanism or sear assembly. 

[NTSOG]

Hi Dave,

I have two Anschutz 380 10M rifles.  There is a release button/latch that must be pressed to release the side lever and open the sliding breech on the rifle which is then loaded with lever fully open.  There is no safety on these rifles and the triggers are extremely light.  If there is a real first stage to the trigger it is so light as to be almost imperceptible.  I am certain that firing the rifle with lever open would cause great damage to it.  The user manual makes that plain.  Whether the breech would slam shut with one's fingers inside I don't know and don't want to find out.  Hence I am extremely careful and very calculated in my actions as I don't my fingers damaged and parts for repairs for these rifles must come from Germany  - if available.  As these are my two favourite rifles, no one else shoots them and no one will until I sell them, hence the safety issue is a 'controlled' and predictable risk to me.

Jim

[dtdtdtdt]

Thanks for the comments.  The FWB300 has the same kind of latch to release the side lever. 

I just went to the rifle and checked it for sure.  While cocking the side lever, I hear 17 distinct clicks.  Releasing the pressure on the lever after each click does not allow the lever to move towards the closed position until after the final click and the piston is held by the trigger mechanism.  I surmise that these clicks are the anti-bear trap device in action.  If so, it's a real good one - 17 steps along the way compared to the RWS 54's 3 or 4.   

It also has no dedicated safety and an equally light trigger (4-8oz).  I too am careful with my toys so haven't ever had a problem.  I don't intend to try to pull the trigger with the chamber open and the lever out.  Inquisitive yes! Stupid NO!

By the way, a very good air gunner and friend truly loves the 380 and recommends it as an alternative to the now scarce FWB300. 

Thanks & G'Day!!

[NTSOG]

Hi Dave,

There are some FWB 300S and 300SU rifles currently for sale over here - they are 'club' guns being sold off by a state target shooting association having been refurbished by a gun smith.  I just bought one and it reminds me of a smaller and lighter Anschutz 380.  They are all wonderful examples of 10M rifles.  I love 10M rifles and keep buying them when they come up for sale.

Jim

[Steelontarget]

I also have an FWB 300S and now everyone has me wondering about how safe my fingers are while I'm loading the rifle.

With the cocking lever all the way back; is it possible, if the trigger were pulled, bumped, slapped, jerked or slipped, for the compression chamber and cocking lever to move forward causing me to say some dirty words later?

[dtdtdtdt]

Look at the associated finger mashing posts.

https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=132536.0

I dug into it and found that the FWB300 has a anti finger mashing system built in.  If you hear the click-click as you cock it, that is the ratchet mechanism in action. 

I found the statement confirming it in the FWB 300 manual I downloaded from the FWB website.
Makes me count my fingers with joy!!!

Dave

[Steelontarget]

Look at the associated finger mashing posts. 

I dug into it and found that the FWB300 has a anti finger mashing system built in.  If you hear the click-click as you cock it, that is the ratchet mechanism in action. 

I found the statement confirming it in the FWB 300 manual I downloaded from the FWB website.

Makes me count my fingers with joy!!!

Dave

Thanks.  I saw that posting after I submitted my question.

Anyway, I made a block for my Diana K98 and also used it on the FWB 300S.  The block is used to keep the action from inadvertently slamming shut on my fingers while cleaning the rifle.

I cut a 5/8" dowel rod to a little less than 2.2 inches in length.  Then I drilled a hole about 3/8 inches from the end for a string to go through with knots tied so it won't slip through the hole.

I pull the cocking lever down far enough to put the dowel rod in the breech so it rests on the bottom of the compression tube.  You will find that the round dowel rod will naturally want to come to rest at the bottom of the receiver.

Once the dowel rod is in place, slowly permit the cocking lever to retract until the compression chamber has stopped moving forward because of the dowel rod.

Now you are free to clean the barrel with whatever method you choose without fear of the action slamming shut on your fingers.

After cleaning, move the cocking lever down far enough to allow the removal of the dowel rod by pulling on the string.  Once the dowel rod is clear, you can allow the cocking lever to slowly return to the position against the barrel.  In the case of the FWB 300S, I just cock the rifle, load a pellet and shoot it.

[Mole2017]

Hey Mike, that block of yours gives me an idea. With just a little more work you could turn that into a loading tray of sorts, or at least add to it so that it helps guide a pellet to the bore, especially if you are prone to drop it at the last instant. If you get it right, you almost wouldn't have to look to see where to load the pellet. (If you look at my list of guns, you'll see I don't have one that could use it, but I could see it making the job of loading a little more sure in addition to the added safety.)