Starting in air gunning

[DirtyF9]

If you want a solid springer that is FT capable without breaking the bank, this right here is your huckleberry.

It will be about $400 to your door, I think $420 complete.

The only drawback it has for general purpose shooting is its weight.  With a scope, it is quite a pig for offhand shooting.  On the other hand, that same weight makes it almost not-at-all hold-sensitive.

And, HOW exactly are you planning on Adam adding his required Iron / Peep sights?

Just sayin' . . . .

Haha, fair enough. I never fail to miss something salient in a post.  Well, I guess there's this. 

Do you disfavor Weihrauchs for some reason (it has just occurred to me that I don't think I have ever seen you write about HWs)?  Or just a bit of a contrarian?

And, Adam, I too prefer a peep sight most of the time.  Given your expressed interest in FT, a scope is pretty much a must.  I would recommend this one as a starter for Hunter class.  It isn't the greatest, but it will do just fine.

I'll check out the Hw77. I definitely don't disfavor the Weihrauchs, I just thought the Beeman rifles were still rebranded German made Weihrauch and not a chinese built copy. I'm definitely not going to pay a premium price for a Chinese made rifle, that I could buy for same or less that's German made. So Weihrauch it is over Beeman, unless maybe old stock. It's just easier to find Beeman and information on Beeman getting started. So that's the way I was leaning. I don't honestly have any bias, other than I'd prefer a British or German made rifle. I'm sure some of the American made ones are quite nice as well, but that's not for this section of the forum.

I'll probably shoot iron sights, even with the disadvantage. Eventually I will have a scoped gun. I like scoped guns, I just want to work some of my more basic skills before I use glass. I'll probably get something more like the HW97 when I decide to have glass. How are the Hawke scopes? I'll look at the one you linked as well

I have an LGV Master Ultra, I also have a FWB 300. If I was to shoot in my backyard I think the Walther (pretty sure it is a Umarex product that Walther lets Umerex use the name) would make enough noise that it might call attention to itself, including the impact. The FWB is much quieter. The 300 is just a joy to shoot. I have shot SSP and PCP match rifles and still like workmanship of my 300. I know a former US team member that still enjoys his too. A lot of winning equipment is in your head. I have shot into the 570's in AP with both a Steyr LP10 and a "lowly" IZH46.

The fact that the LGV series is being phased out after only 5 years does not set well with me as I wonder about parts from Umarex in the very near future for mine. The other reason I don't think it is really a Walther is that Umarex markets Hammerli, Browning, and Ruger, none of who make spring air rifles.  I have a tuned Weihrauch 35 that will shoot with my LGV off of a bench. My HW 98s are as good as it gets in my view, but they don't have the sight option you require. Now, while I don't have a HW95, it is the same action as a 98, so theoretically it can be a shooter especially with a sub 12# tune. It would also have a better trigger out of the box, and you will be able to get parts for it for quite some time to come. 

Yes, Krale does have great pricing and faster shipping than domestic in most cases.

Good luck in your quest.

I would imagine the FWB300 would be pretty quiet with a sub 600 fps velocity. I'd love to get one, or something equivalent or better sometime in the future. I'd rather start my 10m practice with something a bit more inexpensive like a 753 or 853. The LGV interested me because it's basically designed for sub 12 fps matches. Something I wouldn't feel out of place doing now, even if I'm terrible. 10m, I think is something you should be pretty good at before you try to get into matches. Umarex is actually the parent company for Walther, as I recall. They bought Walther back around '93. I'll keep my search going for a bit yet it seems. I'm trying not to rush into anything too quickly, until I feel like I find the rifle that fits the bill best. FT I think is my best option right now for competitive shooting where I wouldn't feel bad for being bad. Seems like it would be more fun loving, even though it's competitive. I could be wrong though.

Dirty

[TwiceHorn]

Sorry, Adam.  That bit about Weihrauchs was directed at Don Hector Medina.  Sr. Medina is an airgun and field target expert, particularly as concerns springers, their ballistics, and optics.  He seems to favor Dianas (the 56 specifically) for FT and quite a few agree with him.  Similarly "contrarian" was his reco of the Anschutz over the FWB.

His website makes for some interesting reading.  ctcustomairguns.com

The 77 and 97 are mechanically identical, with maybe some variation in barrel length (that doesn't seem to matter much, practically).  The 77 has iron sights and a stock with a lower comb purportedly more adapted for iron sights (and less adapted for scopes).

I like and favor iron sights.  But, with airguns we have to face the fact that the ballistics are "loopy" compared to powder burners, frequently necessitating the use of sizable holdovers for shooting with accuracy at varying ranges.  A 12 ft lb rifle zeroed at 30 yards will have a ~1" drop at 10 yards and ~3" or more at 50.  Scopes are better adapted for compensating for this via "mil dot" holdovers, or "clicked" elevation changes.

Whether you are actually going to shoot routinely at a wide variation of ranges is another matter.  Field Target mandates it, though.

Just some food for thought.

[JimL911]

The Beeman "R" series are still rebranded Weirauchs. You'll just pay more for it. If interested in the 77 get the K model. It shoulders better than the full length 77. You can also remove the front blade and use the HW globe sight.
The Hawke Panorama's are nice scopes.

[DirtyF9]

Sorry, Adam.  That bit about Weihrauchs was directed at Don Hector Medina.  Sr. Medina is an airgun and field target expert, particularly as concerns springers, their ballistics, and optics.  He seems to favor Dianas (the 56 specifically) for FT and quite a few agree with him.  Similarly "contrarian" was his reco of the Anschutz over the FWB.

His website makes for some interesting reading.  ctcustomairguns.com

The 77 and 97 are mechanically identical, with maybe some variation in barrel length (that doesn't seem to matter much, practically).  The 77 has iron sights and a stock with a lower comb purportedly more adapted for iron sights (and less adapted for scopes).

I like and favor iron sights.  But, with airguns we have to face the fact that the ballistics are "loopy" compared to powder burners, frequently necessitating the use of sizable holdovers for shooting with accuracy at varying ranges.  A 12 ft lb rifle zeroed at 30 yards will have a ~1" drop at 10 yards and ~3" or more at 50.  Scopes are better adapted for compensating for this via "mil dot" holdovers, or "clicked" elevation changes.

Whether you are actually going to shoot routinely at a wide variation of ranges is another matter.  Field Target mandates it, though.

Just some food for thought.

My apologies. I was a little distracted with work when I read the post, so I mistook it as a comment directed toward me. I have however referred mostly to Beeman rebrands, and not Weihrauch, so I thought it was reasonable. I would guess that the Diana is the more popular FT rifle, since from what I've seen from them they're more typically side lever rifles, rather than break barrel. They're also well know for being well made rifles. Just a guess on my part. Break barrel don't seem to be in favor based on comments I've seen thus far. I'll check out his website for some more educational reading.

It seems that I'm too picky. Hard to find what I'm looking for exactly without doing some sort of modification. I'm not opposed to the break barrel, though I'm sure there are very legitimate reasons most people don't use them in FT. I know a lot of people are extremely serious about FT and have some huge money invested. Maybe if I enjoy some shooting in the FT comps, and try to do some of the springer only FT comps I'd do a bit better in those. I like the HW50, the 77 seems like a good option, especially since I can remove the front blade and use the globe sight, as JimL911 mentions. The Walther LGV Master Ultra seems like a great option, though difficult to find. If I get something closer to the 300 range on cost, I could swing the cost of glass at right around the same cost. Then I can have both iron and glass. If I get something around the price of the Walther, i wouldn't get any glass for it for quite a while. I'd still be happy losing with iron sights though 

Honestly, I want to try some FT so I can get the experience dealing with a wide variation in range. It's good experience, and makes you learn the rifle and how to shoot better. I've not really ever done any long distance shooting with firearms, so I never had to deal with holdover too much. Something I need to learn. Experience and time will give me that.

The Beeman "R" series are still rebranded Weirauchs. You'll just pay more for it. If interested in the 77 get the K model. It shoulders better than the full length 77. You can also remove the front blade and use the HW globe sight.
The Hawke Panorama's are nice scopes.

Thanks for the info, extremely useful knowledge for selecting my air rifle. I'll also take a look at the Hawke Panorama scopes.

I would SERIOUSLY look into a Walther LGV Master Ultra. You can improve the trigger with a simple change of a screw with no disassembly of the gun, or change it altogether for a number of aftermarket parts. You can mount a peep sight and a front globe sight fairly easily. They are accurate. Match accurate. And you can get the 12 ft-lbs version to do FT AND Match with no changes except for the sighting system (with the right pellets). They retail in the Netherlands for about $500
HM

Is it worth getting the LGV Master Ultra in the higher power just to replace the power plant for the 11.8 FPE? It seems to be quite difficult to find the 11.8 FPE now. Also, should I be concerned with a lack of replacement parts, because this line is discontinued? Do you have any other recommendations because of the discontinued model?

[TwiceHorn]

Here's an idea, Adam.  If you can make it to the Dallas Match on 10/14, I am sure one of us can arrange to get you a springer to shoot for the entire match of 50 some odd shots, either an HW97 or a TX200 or Pro Sport.

That will give you a real world data point to work from.  Whether you like the big heavy and more expensive springers and whether  you think you want to continue in Field Target.

The offer is open really anytime, but I mention the upcoming match because one of the more amusing aspects of this hobby is that grown men start to behave like 10 year old kids in a candy or toy store with their need to get a gun, NOW and maybe another one later.

[dtdtdtdt]

Any decent air rifle can be a lot of fun!  The ones being recommended are all great ones!  Some of the differences being argued about are really nits on an elephant!!! 

In my humble opinion, the major advantage of the FWB 300 and RWS 54 - 56 sequence is the recoilless systems that take care of the many hours of wondering what i did wrong with my hold this time that dozens of posts discuss.  Almost everyone who gets a springer without such a system goes through the pain of developing a hold that works for them.  The higher the power, the worse it is. 

I spent a year or so chasing my tail with a break-barrel Walther (Chinese counterfeit by the way!) that I bought at a gun show from a fairly seedy-looking table holder cheap.  I bought it initially as a chipmunk killer as i had a wall collapse after chipmunks undermined it.  $3000 to repair - chipmunks gotta go!!

I then got a FWB300 (a real story behind that too! But I digress) and never looked back.  The superlative accuracy and workmanship of the FWB300 became evident in as many one-hole groups that I wanted to shoot.  I went on the hunt for a higher power rifle with a similar recoil control system and found the RWS54.  Over 400 chipmunks and thousands of targets later, I love my RWS54 so much that I have commissioned Hector Medina to customize one like he uses in .20 caliber for me.  He is building it now!! 

Regarding shooting an air rifle as compared to powder firearms.  I visualize it this way.  An air rifle performs at 1/10th the distance like a powder arm.  I mean.  Shooting a air rifle at 10yds is like shooting a powder gun at 100yds.  50yds is 500yds.  100yds is 1000yds!  The effort required to understand the ballistics and wind impacts is similar but with a much smaller investment in space and time.   

Buy what trips your trigger (pun intended!) and get going.  It's like candy, you won't just have one!!

[Yogi]

Dear Dirty F 9,

When using open sights you need a rifle stock with a low comb or you can not get your head low enough to see through the sights.  With a scope, you head is about 1/2 inch-one inch higher.  Often they are NOT compatible.  Go to an FT match and just watch or borrow a rifle!!!!

-Y

[HectorMedina]

Haha, fair enough. I never fail to miss something salient in a post.  Well, I guess there's this.  https://www.krale-schietsport.nl/en/weihrauch-hw77-9297.html

Do you disfavor Weihrauchs for some reason (it has just occurred to me that I don't think I have ever seen you write about HWs)?  Or just a bit of a contrarian?

And, Adam, I too prefer a peep sight most of the time.  Given your expressed interest in FT, a scope is pretty much a must.  I would recommend this one as a starter for Hunter class.    It isn't the greatest, but it will do just fine.

Mark;

I find the disassembly process of the HW's to be overly complicated (when compared to Dianas). I don't argue their quality of finish, nor their potential accuracy, but I've beaten too many of them to see them as "infalible".
The first rifle I bought for my girlfriend (now my wife), and the one she dubs her "engagement rifle" was an HW95. It fit the purpose perfectly. Light and easy to handle, we went grackle hunting on our first dates. She started using it in FT, but when I made her a 54 and her scores went up by 20% the handy 95 was relegated to the "plinking" category.
I've worked on enough of them to know their limitations and their assets.
Yes you can get extraordinarily accurate rifles in ANY brand, but when you put together the robustness of the Dianas, the service you can get (with direct help from Factory), and the bigger "engine" that can simply "cruise idly" at 12 ft-lbs, to ME it is a no brainer.

I would have loved to suggest a Diana to the OP (I've set up enough 54's as "Luft Gewehr Universal" -where the original LGU came from- capable of doing Match, Silhouette, and FT), but when the conditions of breakbarrel, 10 M shooting with Peeps, and some FT restrictions were added, then you would be out of his budget.

Admittedly I am MORE than contrarian when it comes to excessive faith in "branding". And the FWB 300 is the best example. The Anschütz 380 is a much better gun (capable out to 35 yards) and yet it gets little "press" and people that have NEVER shot BOTH side by side constantly elaborate on why the FWB is better. Go figure.
The silver lining of that is that you can find excellent 380's for less money than the average 300's.
Add to that the fact that some "airgunsmiths" used to import cheap, used, beaten, old FWB 300 Club guns from Germany to "restore" and sell at a premium, and you will realize that there are a bunch of so-so FWB 300's in the market. CAVEAT EMPTOR.

The OP asked about a break barrel, that is why I suggested the Walther LGV. While not many are used in the FT circuit, it is a gun that will outshoot most of us when properly setup and used. The lever-lock arrangement (borrowed from their 10M guns of decades ago) is also a good insurance against the BBB (break barrel blues) of distrusting the lock-up of your gun.
MOST of the parts inside the gun are standard industrial parts. EXCEPT for the piston seal, of which there is now at least two different aftermarket suppliers, you do not need ANYTHING from UMAREX, everything else can be replaced with standard ORings and Teflon Rings, and there are at least three different spring manufacturers that can help with the powerplant.
If you buy the rifle in any of its variants (from the Challenger, to the Master Pro), you only need to buy two or three piston seals, the first 12 ft-lbs spring, the Match Abzug (if you do not want to go the "Yankee Tune" way) and you will be set for a LOOOOONNNNNGGGG time.
Using a lash-on cheekpad would turn the iron-sights stock to a scope-set stock in no time flat. Some cheekpads are even velcro'ed or elastic.

Again, I was trying to setup the OP with what HE wanted, or seemed to want/need.

Keep well and shoot straight!



HM

[TwiceHorn]

Haha, fair enough. I never fail to miss something salient in a post.  Well, I guess there's this.  https://www.krale-schietsport.nl/en/weihrauch-hw77-9297.html

Do you disfavor Weihrauchs for some reason (it has just occurred to me that I don't think I have ever seen you write about HWs)?  Or just a bit of a contrarian?

And, Adam, I too prefer a peep sight most of the time.  Given your expressed interest in FT, a scope is pretty much a must.  I would recommend this one as a starter for Hunter class.    It isn't the greatest, but it will do just fine.

Mark;

I find the disassembly process of the HW's to be overly complicated (when compared to Dianas). I don't argue their quality of finish, nor their potential accuracy, but I've beaten too many of them to see them as "infalible".
The first rifle I bought for my girlfriend (now my wife), and the one she dubs her "engagement rifle" was an HW95. It fit the purpose perfectly. Light and easy to handle, we went grackle hunting on our first dates. She started using it in FT, but when I made her a 54 and her scores went up by 20% the handy 95 was relegated to the "plinking" category.
I've worked on enough of them to know their limitations and their assets.
Yes you can get extraordinarily accurate rifles in ANY brand, but when you put together the robustness of the Dianas, the service you can get (with direct help from Factory), and the bigger "engine" that can simply "cruise idly" at 12 ft-lbs, to ME it is a no brainer.

I would have loved to suggest a Diana to the OP (I've set up enough 54's as "Luft Gewehr Universal" -where the original LGU came from- capable of doing Match, Silhouette, and FT), but when the conditions of breakbarrel, 10 M shooting with Peeps, and some FT restrictions were added, then you would be out of his budget.

Admittedly I am MORE than contrarian when it comes to excessive faith in "branding". And the FWB 300 is the best example. The Anschütz 380 is a much better gun (capable out to 35 yards) and yet it gets little "press" and people that have NEVER shot BOTH side by side constantly elaborate on why the FWB is better. Go figure.
The silver lining of that is that you can find excellent 380's for less money than the average 300's.
Add to that the fact that some "airgunsmiths" used to import cheap, used, beaten, old FWB 300 Club guns from Germany to "restore" and sell at a premium, and you will realize that there are a bunch of so-so FWB 300's in the market. CAVEAT EMPTOR.

The OP asked about a break barrel, that is why I suggested the Walther LGV. While not many are used in the FT circuit, it is a gun that will outshoot most of us when properly setup and used. The lever-lock arrangement (borrowed from their 10M guns of decades ago) is also a good insurance against the BBB (break barrel blues) of distrusting the lock-up of your gun.
MOST of the parts inside the gun are standard industrial parts. EXCEPT for the piston seal, of which there is now at least two different aftermarket suppliers, you do not need ANYTHING from UMAREX, everything else can be replaced with standard ORings and Teflon Rings, and there are at least three different spring manufacturers that can help with the powerplant.
If you buy the rifle in any of its variants (from the Challenger, to the Master Pro), you only need to buy two or three piston seals, the first 12 ft-lbs spring, the Match Abzug (if you do not want to go the "Yankee Tune" way) and you will be set for a LOOOOONNNNNGGGG time.
Using a lash-on cheekpad would turn the iron-sights stock to a scope-set stock in no time flat. Some cheekpads are even velcro'ed or elastic.

Again, I was trying to setup the OP with what HE wanted, or seemed to want/need.

Keep well and shoot straight!



HM

Thank you for the reply.  I figured it would be thoughtful and interesting. 

[DirtyF9]

Here's an idea, Adam.  If you can make it to the Dallas Match on 10/14, I am sure one of us can arrange to get you a springer to shoot for the entire match of 50 some odd shots, either an HW97 or a TX200 or Pro Sport.

That will give you a real world data point to work from.  Whether you like the big heavy and more expensive springers and whether  you think you want to continue in Field Target.

The offer is open really anytime, but I mention the upcoming match because one of the more amusing aspects of this hobby is that grown men start to behave like 10 year old kids in a candy or toy store with their need to get a gun, NOW and maybe another one later.

I'd definitely enjoy that. I'm sure I'd learn a lot even if I just attended and spectated.  I'll be available on the 14th. If you'd like to email me with some info or you can just message me on here, that'd be great. I definitely have an itch to get a rifle sooner rather than later, that's for sure. There's just so many options and it's impossibly difficult to choose!

From what I've gathered from reading all the posts, as well as what I've been reading outside and around the forum, if I want to do competition shooting PCP is really the way to go ultimately. A person can definitely do some good work with a springer, but underlever and side cocking mechanisms are king for the sport using that power plant. Break barrel come with some inherent design issues that are unfavorable for the sport, though it doesn't completely rule them out. I'm basically not going to find one that's all all rounder. So it looks like I need to accept that if I want irons, maybe something like a 30S or 50 would be good for shooting around my yard, though I'm not stuck on a break barrel. It just seems like a popular starter. If I want a springer to use for competition, Diana 34, 54, 56, HW77K, HW97K, TX200 HC or MK III seem to be the ones to go with, glassed. I can get an HW30S for about $200 it looks like, or a 50 for just a bit more than that. I can put aside some extra and work toward something more suited for competition. Each tool for the job is how I need to go. It seems like for that I'll need another $600 for a rifle, and probably need to budget something like $300 for a scope. More is always better in scopes, but I'm trying to not live in a dog house for the next year. Cause married with children.

Do people who use these rifles in FT typically use them with their stock power plants, or do most people buy the kits to modify them and reduce them to the <12 ft lbs. If it's a 20 ft lbs comp, is the stock power from a TX200 enough? If I recall correctly, it's somewhere between 13 and 15 from looking at numbers on straight shooters.

Thank you to all of you for taking the time to respond to these questions. I'm sure at this point I'm just going in circles. I appreciate all the advice from everyone, and I appreciate the time Hector Medina and TwiceHorn have taken to elaborate on these posts. It's definitely helped considerably and made me chew on some thoughts and questions.

Dirty

[Hoosier Daddy]

This has been an excellent read for early Saturday morning guys, a huge wealth of knowledge we have gathered here.
I however don't share that quality. 
I am just a airgunner who dabbles in punching holes in paper, striving to make it all in one hole. But varying in distance.
 So to Adam I am going to say... I know how money can be a limiting factor. I, like most, started out as a kid with a Pump gun then went to Powder Burners.. 40 years later I find myself back into airguns restarting with a spring powered gun. I bought a couple entry level ones and drooled over a Beeman R11 / Weihrauch HW98 (still do). As said, springers can be a devil to master the hold. Just when you think you got it right, something changes. I was REALLY getting frustrated.
 I then bought a Beeman AR2078-B for a "serious" 10M gun, or as much a one as I wanted to spend on one at $225 (!)
That CO2 gun was providing me with the accuracy I was searching for. I was amazed I could not only hit the 10 ring, but choose where in the 10 ring I was going to hit! I WAS HOOKED!
Trouble is, I live in Indiana where the weather for shooting CO2 outside won't happen for about 4 or 5 months every year. I do shoot in the house during the winter but for safety reasons I only do it when home alone.
 With you living in Dallas TX area, I think that would be an option for you in your back yard.
Then I wondered about FTT, sounds fun. But the AR2078-B looses it's energy past 25 yards or so. Eventually I saved enough to buy a rebuilt FWB300S ($500) and again EXCELLENT accuracy and from a Springer no less! I have mounted a Mil-Dot C/P 9X scope on it and have now stretched out to 50 yards.
 Once I got this extended range dialed in, to me, the energy it has is marginal at those distances is still questionable.
NOW I find myself with a PCP and a hand pump. GAME CHANGER!!!! There is no doubt in my mind I could knock down a target at 50 yards, even further if needed.
  My point to all this babbling is this... If I had saved all the money I spent along the way to get here, I could have bought a NEW Anschutz.
 I suggest you getting that CMP Daisy single pump pneumatic for back yard use because of convenience, to hone your skills, and "scratch the itch" for now. Then start saving a little at a time for a PCP, think $500-700 or such, and a hand pump. Maybe a used Higher grade gun and Then a SCBA tank if you have a place to fill it.
 I know it seems like a lot of investment but it really would have been cheaper in the long run for me.
 You will come out money ahead in the long run.

[Yogi]

Adam,

Hopefully you now realize why some many air gunners have so many rifles.

-Y

[DirtyF9]

This has been an excellent read for early Saturday morning guys, a huge wealth of knowledge we have gathered here.
I however don't share that quality. 
I am just a airgunner who dabbles in punching holes in paper, striving to make it all in one hole. But varying in distance.
 So to Adam I am going to say... I know how money can be a limiting factor. I, like most, started out as a kid with a Pump gun then went to Powder Burners.. 40 years later I find myself back into airguns restarting with a spring powered gun. I bought a couple entry level ones and drooled over a Beeman R11 / Weihrauch HW98 (still do). As said, springers can be a devil to master the hold. Just when you think you got it right, something changes. I was REALLY getting frustrated.
 I then bought a Beeman AR2078-B for a "serious" 10M gun, or as much a one as I wanted to spend on one at $225 (!)
That CO2 gun was providing me with the accuracy I was searching for. I was amazed I could not only hit the 10 ring, but choose where in the 10 ring I was going to hit! I WAS HOOKED!
Trouble is, I live in Indiana where the weather for shooting CO2 outside won't happen for about 4 or 5 months every year. I do shoot in the house during the winter but for safety reasons I only do it when home alone.
 With you living in Dallas TX area, I think that would be an option for you in your back yard.
Then I wondered about FTT, sounds fun. But the AR2078-B looses it's energy past 25 yards or so. Eventually I saved enough to buy a rebuilt FWB300S ($500) and again EXCELLENT accuracy and from a Springer no less! I have mounted a Mil-Dot C/P 9X scope on it and have now stretched out to 50 yards.
 Once I got this extended range dialed in, to me, the energy it has is marginal at those distances is still questionable.
NOW I find myself with a PCP and a hand pump. GAME CHANGER!!!! There is no doubt in my mind I could knock down a target at 50 yards, even further if needed.
  My point to all this babbling is this... If I had saved all the money I spent along the way to get here, I could have bought a NEW Anschutz.
 I suggest you getting that CMP Daisy single pump pneumatic for back yard use because of convenience, to hone your skills, and "scratch the itch" for now. Then start saving a little at a time for a PCP, think $500-700 or such, and a hand pump. Maybe a used Higher grade gun and Then a SCBA tank if you have a place to fill it.
 I know it seems like a lot of investment but it really would have been cheaper in the long run for me.
 You will come out money ahead in the long run.

I'm glad at least one person other than me has found it an interesting read  Currently I'm only dabbling in punching small circles into paper as well. I do about a quarter size group of 10 at 10m with my Crosman 66 Powermaster that was extremely poorly taken care of over the past 25 years or so. Not great accuracy  Granted, I was also shooting left handed on a rather poor copy of a Field Target sitting position. Still enjoyable though. I do really hate pumping it 10x between shots. It's also very noisy to pump.

I appreciate the back story. It's a good lesson learned, and I enjoy reading about other people's experiences. I'm sure you still enjoy or have enjoyed all those various air rifles though, so it's probably still money well spent, even if the combined cost could've put you into a world class competition rifle.

So I'm not particularly interested in CO2 rifles for one main reason, I have to keep spending money to supply the pneumatic power. It really comes down to that. PCP is a different story. I'd be much more inclined to invest into that. I do however want to hone my skills up before I put out that money. Essentially I'd like a self contained power plant that has everything it needs to fire the gun in the gun, for the moment. Single stroke, or springer. Break barrel, side lever or under lever are all fine. Iron sights are preferable, especially a front globe post. I don't mind blade sights on rifles, since that is what I'm used to from traditional firearms for the most part. I am leaning more on a springer, gas piston or spring coil piston, because it requires some extra work to proper use and I can't see how it wouldn't be helpful to be able to master artillery hold. I do think at this point I do need to just get a backyard rifle though, and then spring for another rifle for use in FT. It doesn't seem that there's anyway to really have both. I think my third or fourth rifle will be a PCP though. I'll probably try to get a used SCBA tank for it, a hand pump, and have it filled at the local fire station more often than not, if they deem it okay to fill.

[Hoosier Daddy]

Sounds like a great plan Adam!

[TwiceHorn]

I pm'ed you, Adam.  Cliff, above, has agreed to lend his TX200 (or 97) and another DFW field target guy and forum member Cloud 9, has agreed to let you shoot a 97.

Cliff has a slightly "different" scope situation than most in that he uses an adjustable objective instead of side focus.  And his 97 is set up for WFTF, which is probably not the best place to start.

I would probably recommend that you shoot "fun rifle," which is a bit more casual as to scoring since you won't have the gun set up for you.

[DirtyF9]

I pm'ed you, Adam.  Cliff, above, has agreed to lend his TX200 (or 97) and another DFW field target guy and forum member Cloud 9, has agreed to let you shoot a 97.

Cliff has a slightly "different" scope situation than most in that he uses an adjustable objective instead of side focus.  And his 97 is set up for WFTF, which is probably not the best place to start.

I would probably recommend that you shoot "fun rifle," which is a bit more casual as to scoring since you won't have the gun set up for you.

Sounds fantastic Mark! Looking forward to it. Probably best to take your advice and go with the "fun rifle" shoot. Definitely looking forward to it

Dirty

[HectorMedina]

[ I do think at this point I do need to just get a backyard rifle though, and then spring for another rifle for use in FT. It doesn't seem that there's anyway to really have both. I think my third or fourth rifle will be a PCP though. I'll probably try to get a used SCBA tank for it, a hand pump, and have it filled at the local fire station more often than not, if they deem it okay to fill.

Adam

At this point in time, I would be inclined to tell you that, even if you DID get exactly what you think you want, curiosity would overtake you in short time and you would be buying other guns just to check that you were where you wanted from the start.

;-)

It's just human nature and it's alright, in the end the destination is not as important as the trip itself.

Good luck and keep in posted!




HM

[DirtyF9]

[ I do think at this point I do need to just get a backyard rifle though, and then spring for another rifle for use in FT. It doesn't seem that there's anyway to really have both. I think my third or fourth rifle will be a PCP though. I'll probably try to get a used SCBA tank for it, a hand pump, and have it filled at the local fire station more often than not, if they deem it okay to fill.

Adam

At this point in time, I would be inclined to tell you that, even if you DID get exactly what you think you want, curiosity would overtake you in short time and you would be buying other guns just to check that you were where you wanted from the start.

;-)

It's just human nature and it's alright, in the end the destination is not as important as the trip itself.

Good luck and keep in posted!




HM

Hah, I'm sure you're right. I'll probably end up with quite a few in the end

[DirtyF9]

It's been a bit since I posted last on this, but I decided to get the HW30S for a backyard shooter, and the HW97K for my Field Target or competition shooting spring rifle. Both of them arrived today, but I haven't unpacked them yet. They both look like they made it through shipping in good shape though. I also got a Hawke Airmax SF 30 4-16x50 AMX IR scope with BKL 301 scope rings. Hopefully I'll be happy with the scope purchase. I admit I got it without knowing probably enough about Hawke scopes or scopes in general. I like how the reticle looks, and it seems to be made specifically for air rifles. We shall see I suppose. Hopefully no big buyers remorse there. I also got the sharp shooter pellet sampler to test in both rifles.

I do have one question. Is there any design defects I should be aware of in their current models that need to be corrected before I start shooting these rifles? I'd hate to cause any unneeded damage to them after only just getting them, especially if there's simple fixes for these errors in design.

Thanks for all you guys' input

Adam

[Yogi]

Some HW 30's have a galling issue with the cocking slot, some are twangy.  All springer benefit from a barrel cleaning, some have too much factory grease and a good cleaning is in order.  If you are very handy, a trigger polishing make the Record trigger superb!  Search the web or GTA and there are tons of instructions on how to do all this.  Happy shooting...

-Y